Avoid hills early season?

[Carrera]

If high intensity training is beneficial, it's good news for me. Working schedules make it difficult to ride for long periods so my only hope on certain days is to blitz the hills. If I can, I try to get some longer rides in but it's tough when you do shifts.

recovery depends on many factors. just because you do some high intensity work, does not mean your recovery will be greatly extended (if at all in some cases).



and there's no reason why you can't exercise with higher intensity sections on a daily or almost daily basis



because intensity is inversely proportional to duration you will likely always do low intensity most of the time, unless you only ride for very short periods of time each time you ride.



depending on what you mean by base, there's no reason why some intensity can't be included daily.

as i pointed out previously, on many hills here - you *have* to ride at high intensity just to get up them. changing down, and cadence is unimportant in the power that must be produced to ride up the hills.

ric

 

[Mansmind]

recovery depends on many factors. just because you do some high intensity work, does not mean your recovery will be greatly extended (if at all in some cases).



and there's no reason why you can't exercise with higher intensity sections on a daily or almost daily basis



because intensity is inversely proportional to duration you will likely always do low intensity most of the time, unless you only ride for very short periods of time each time you ride.



depending on what you mean by base, there's no reason why some intensity can't be included daily.

as i pointed out previously, on many hills here - you *have* to ride at high intensity just to get up them. changing down, and cadence is unimportant in the power that must be produced to ride up the hills.

ric

So back to my original question...

High intensity creates more stress for adaptation to take place, and as long as recovery is well monitored, and doesn't take me (since this would be specific to the person) and extended amount of time to do.. then there is nothing wrong with higher intensity.

For example.. I almost never ride at anything less than Zone 3 (Friel's zones) and while that's not what I consider high intensity, it's a little higher than what I see normally recommended for "base" training. I've found that from the duration standpoint, I can still go 4 hours, which is as long as I ever have to train at one time anyway. Also, for me.. this means `200-220 watts average. Anything less than that "feels" like recovery pace to me.

High intensity (to me) is zone 4, which can still be maintained for a long time although is definitely more stressfull, or zone 5 (I consider this race pace) which I usually limit to one hour or so (never tried to see how long I can go at that pace, but I'm definitely "worked" over that hour). I WOULD do a recovery ride after this intensity, which has to be on a trainer and is low zone 3 or zone 2.

Thanks,

John

 

[ric_stern/RST]

So back to my original question...

High intensity creates more stress for adaptation to take place, and as long as recovery is well monitored, and doesn't take me (since this would be specific to the person) and extended amount of time to do.. then there is nothing wrong with higher intensity.

most of the adaptations that people require to get fitter come from training at higher intensities, e.g., those just below TT power, TT power, and ~ VO2max. In my training zones this mainly zones 3 - 5

For example.. I almost never ride at anything less than Zone 3 (Friel's zones) and while that's not what I consider high intensity, it's a little higher than what I see normally recommended for "base" training.

i've no idea how his zones are calculated in terms of HR, but if you're using power i'd use those to train with.

many coaches advocate lots of long, low intensity rides (which is what most people think of as "base" work). there is however, no evidence to support this. there are reasons to do some long, low intensity riding though.

ric

 

[Brizza]

I'm interested to hear some more information about the base training theory.

It's not discussed as much in Australia as we train all year around (whereas many riders want to work on their base after winter), and I push specific training according to the weakess or strength of each rider.

That said alot of coaches in my area push their athletes to do large quantities of training rather than intensity training.

Given that there is no evidence to support this theory, which riders could it theoretically benefit the most from base training?

 

[mitosis]

I saw on some page on the web that a rider should not do any big hills until about 1000 miles into the new season.
I rode about 1400 miles last year, rode in a century in September and used a fluid trainer about 3 times per week over winter until the start of April. I ride about 60+ miles per week and have about 215 miles this season so far.
I live in an area that has some pretty good hills and if you want to ride you can't really avoid them very easily. My legs feel tired after the rides, but the next day don't feel sore. My knees feel good when riding and after. Bottom line is that I like to ride the hills, but never heard of this 1000 miles cautionary.

Do the hills. Just use an easy gear. As long as your not talking Alpe du Huez.

 

[ric_stern/RST]

I'm interested to hear some more information about the base training theory.

It's not discussed as much in Australia as we train all year around (whereas many riders want to work on their base after winter), and I push specific training according to the weakess or strength of each rider.

That said alot of coaches in my area push their athletes to do large quantities of training rather than intensity training.

Given that there is no evidence to support this theory, which riders could it theoretically benefit the most from base training?

I'm not sure if i fully understand your question. I was suggesting that there is no good reason to do lots of low intensity volume. in general, i often advocate some intensity all year round

ric

 

[Brizza]

So you don't think it would be useful for anyone?

Some suggest that it helps your body to adapt to burning fat during long races. Personally I've always thought that training at race pace would acheive the same goal. A Cat 1 or 2 rider might use this theory.

Is it worth doing lots low level training if you've been off the bike for several months and have lost your "base", or should you simply rebuild your program from scatch and return to high intensity training progressivly?

Could lots of low level training be useful to pure sprinters who require explosive power and don't want to detract from their max output by training faster of long distances?

Base training is a popular theory in my town, and I'm wondering which riders could theoretically benefit from it.

 

[ric_stern/RST]

So you don't think it would be useful for anyone?

it could well be. however, i think this thread was about continued training

Some suggest that it helps your body to adapt to burning fat during long races. Personally I've always thought that training at race pace would acheive the same goal. A Cat 1 or 2 rider might use this theory.

you burn more fatty acids as you increase your fitness (i.e., increased LT and VO2max) and are able to cover a greater amount of energy expenditure via fat oxidation. lots of moderately hard (e.g., zones 3 - 5) do this.

Is it worth doing lots low level training if you've been off the bike for several months and have lost your "base", or should you simply rebuild your program from scatch and return to high intensity training progressivly?

that's probably how i'd start, because it would give you the greatest amount of time on the bike

Could lots of low level training be useful to pure sprinters who require explosive power and don't want to detract from their max output by training faster of long distances?

i've coached world class track sprinters and some have done a fair amount of volume at lowish intensities. however, all these sprinters i've coached have also done the kilo as well, and that's around 40% aerobic

ric