Vintage Team Fuji or... ??

[Kaisa1127]

Hi all I am a newbie... Marathoner turned mountain-biker, potentially turning into a road bike person with hopes of dabbling in triathlons at some point.

I have never owned a road bike... I have been mountain biking a few years. I am going to a local store tomorrow to check out this bike... which fits my budget of $500, give or take.

https://store.bicycleczar.com/48cm-Vintage-FUJI-Team-Fuji-14-Speed-Road-Bike-p/10130296.htm

Do you all think it is a good deal? I am female, 5'2" and about 115#.

I looked at some newer Fuji's that are comparable in price, and my blazing ignorance doesn't have the ability to understand why a bike almost as old as me, costs the same as one that was made a few years ago. Guessing the components, but I am not familiar enough with the semantics of cycling to understand.

Compare the link above to this one... http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/bid/4459930602.html


Thanks in advance for any guidance!!

 

[alfeng]

There are some GIVENs:

1. disclosure: I am partial to bikes with steel frames ...
2. some people would not pay more than $50 for an(y) "old" steel bike ...

FWIW. While there ARE reasons not to choose a vintage bike which has a steel frame ...

But, between the two bikes, 'I' would definitely choose the FUJI Team 7 days a week, 24/7/365, until-the-cows-come-home, et cetera ...

• even though the FUJI Newest 4.0 has an aluminum frame, I would guess that (as pictured) it may weigh as much as the FUJI Team whose steel frame could weigh 2 lbs. more!!! the craftsmanship on the Fuji Team frame is very, VERY high, BTW IMO, the Fuji Team frame/fork is something which you will be proud to own-and-ride even 20+ years from now whereas the frame/fork on the Newest 4.0 may serve its owner very well for decades & is certainly suitably utilitarian (nothing wrong with THAT!!!) but there is nothing particularly remarkable about that aluminum frame (again, nothing wrong with that!) & the Newest 4.0 will certainly depreciate in value over time whereas the Fuji Team probably won't ...

[*]while the Team has almost-antiquated components, the ONLY (?) two component changes which may-or-may-not be of immediate benefit are a new (e.g., SunRace) Freewheel which has RAMPED cogs because the RAMPING on contemporary Cogs greatly facilitates shifting regardless of the precision of the shifters which a bike may have & possibly a different saddle if the one on the bike doesn't suit your butt

• FYI. For a couple of hundred dollars + some comparatively effortless DIY time, you can bring your bike into the 21st Century with some contemporary shifters by simply installing the fore mentioned SunRace Freewheel + a pair of CAMPAGNOLO 10-speed shifters (<$150 on eBay) ... AND POSSIBLY, a 'new' Shimano rear derailleur (I'm not sure about the geometry of the Santé rear derailleur) ...
  the 11-speed Campagnolo shifters should work, too, BTW
  

[*] re-spacing the rear dropouts to 130mm is NOT requisite unless you want to increase the number of Cogs on the rear ...

• ​this can be a DIY endeavor, too, BUT the caveat (IMO) is that you not use any additional leverage (e.g., a 2x4) as some recommend because that opens up an unnecessary can of worms (i.e., centering) ...
  

BTW. It probably won't hurt to haggle ... see if they will take $400.

FYI. Here is my mid-80s Olmo (pictured as it was a few years ago ... I changed the handlebar back to a more traditional bend similar to the one on the Fuji Team) which I updated about a dozen years ago with contemporary-for-the-time components (beyond the Campagnolo shifters & re-spacing the rear dropouts, most of the changes were cosmetic based on MY aesthetic sensibilities) ...

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If I still had the original steel fork, I would probably put it back on the bike, BTW.

 

[oldbobcat]

Originally Posted by Kaisa1127


Do you all think it is a good deal? I am female, 5'2" and about 115#.

If you don't have to be on the latest and lightest and easiest to use equipment, this is a very nice bike. The Team Fuji was a highly regarded budget-minded racer in its heyday, which was around the mid 70s to mid 80s. And it appears to be in very nice condition.

That said, the price is set to appeal to collectors and vintage bike aficionados who enjoy tinkering and upgrading, not triathletes trying to juggle training in three disciplines with a career and a life. I really wouldn't pay more than $350, largely because you will be upgrading someday and will have a difficult time reselling it for more than $250.

I have a customer who is getting ready to offer a small-framed 2003 Specialized Allez pretty soon. Here asking price will be well under $500 and the bike is in near-perfect condition. It has a 3x9 Shimano drivetrain with integrated shift and brake levers. Seriously, it was ridden by a little old lady only on weekends. If you can wait a day or two (I go back to work tomorrow), I can try to contact her and introduce you two.

 

[alfeng]

Originally Posted by oldbobcat
If you don't have to be on the latest and lightest and easiest to use equipment, this is a very nice bike. The Team Fuji was a highly regarded budget-minded racer in its heyday, which was around the mid 70s to mid 80s. And it appears to be in very nice condition.

That said, the price is set to appeal to collectors and vintage bike aficionados who enjoy tinkering and upgrading, not triathletes trying to juggle training in three disciplines with a career and a life. I really wouldn't pay more than $350, largely because you will be upgrading someday and will have a difficult time reselling it for more than $250.

I have a customer who is getting ready to offer a small-framed 2003 Specialized Allez pretty soon. Here asking price will be well under $500 and the bike is in near-perfect condition. It has a 3x9 Shimano drivetrain with integrated shift and brake levers. Seriously, it was ridden by a little old lady only on weekends. If you can wait a day or two (I go back to work tomorrow), I can try to contact her and introduce you two.

HMMmmm ....

• Initial bike cost for 2003 Specialized Allez ...

• PLUS shipping ($45-to-$100) ...
• PLUS assembly ($35-to-$80) ...

I would think that your customer's Allez had better be only about $200.

To update the Allez's dodgy Shimano shifters/etc. would certainly cost as much as to update the Fuji Team ...

• Really, it would probably cost as-much-or-more to update the Allez unless it, too, was updated with Campagnolo shifters ... wouldn't YOU be charging somewhere like $1000+ to update it with 11-speed Shimano or SRAM shifters & misc. components?
• On the other hand, the fore mentioned the 10-or-11-speed Campagnolo shifters/etc. can be bought for under $200 ...

And, while it is hard to look 20+ years into the future, the particular Fuji frame will undoubtedly be worth more than the Specialized frame ...

That is, the particular Fuji Team frameset is "a keeper" for decades to come unless it gets trashed ... and, I doubt the same can be said for the Specialized Allez frameset.

 

[Kaisa1127]

Thanks to both of you for your replies.

So after some hemming and hawing last night, as well as some research and reviews... I had decided on the vintage Fuji. Called the shop to go see it... it had sold. Bummer! So I got a vintage Miyata 312 with 52/42T cranks. I also tried out a Takara Olympian, but this Miyata was a much smoother ride.


Alfeng: You mention being able to bring the shifters into the 21st century... That is something that I will definitely want to do. I'm not trying to get sponsorship by doing the Tris, but I want to be able to shift without having to take my hands off. It is a bit more difficult if you aren't used to it.

So, I could do that by purchasing the SunRace Freewheel + a pair of CAMPAGNOLO 10-speed shifters??

That's a good looking Olmo, Alfeng!

 

[alfeng]

Originally Posted by Kaisa1127
Thanks to both of you for your replies.

So after some hemming and hawing last night, as well as some research and reviews... I had decided on the vintage Fuji. Called the shop to go see it... it had sold. Bummer! So I got a vintage Miyata 312 with 52/42T cranks. I also tried out a Takara Olympian, but this Miyata was a much smoother ride.

Too bad about the Fuji Team having already been sold ...

I am not familiar with the Miyata 312 ...
Alfeng: You mention being able to bring the shifters into the 21st century... That is something that I will definitely want to do. I'm not trying to get sponsorship by doing the Tris, but I want to be able to shift without having to take my hands off. It is a bit more difficult if you aren't used to it.

So, I could do that by purchasing the SunRace Freewheel + a pair of CAMPAGNOLO 10-speed shifters??



Provisionally, yes ...

BUT, because your Miyata may-or-may-not have a SunTour rear derailleur, you may-or-may-not need to replace it with a Shimano rear derailleur ...
YOU will need ...

1. the shifters
2. downtube cable stops (these used to be included with the shifters)
3. probably, new cables/housing
4. and possibly, an 8-or-9-speed Shimano rear derailleur (many people say that the 10-speed Shimano rear derailleur is interchangeable) and/or 8-speed-or-narrower chain (if your Miyata happens to have a SEDIS Narrow chain then you should not need to replace it)
5. PLUS tools ...

• UNLIKE the Shimano & SRAM shifters, Campagnolo shifters will work with almost any cable actuated front derailleur of any vintage + almost any chain which is suitable for the Cassette being used ... 8-/9-speed derailleurs have narrower pulley wheels than 5-/6-/7-speed derailleurs & the narrower cage of the "newer" derailleurs doesn't play nice with the wider chains which are typically used with 5-/6-/7-speed drivetrains I found that the 9-speed Shimano chain works well for most drivetrains when used with Campagnolo shifters, including with a 10-speed Campagnolo Cassette

• the current Campagnolo shifters use an annoying-to-me T-27 bit-or-driver ... you need one whose shaft is at least 4" long ... you can buy these on eBay (recommended UNLESS there is a hardware store that is near where you live), too, or probably at LOWES, ACE HARDWARE, etc.
• the older Campagnolo shifters use a 5mm Allen Wrench which has a 4"-or-longer shaft

I have found that the "best" (as in "least expensive") cable cutters are found on HARBOR FREIGHT's "Chicago" (orange handles) needle nose & lineman's pliers & "dikes" -- a "set" of pliers costs about $8 when they are on sale ... it is probably worth going to Harbor Freight for the generic (non-bicycle specific) tools.

A FLAT or Half-Round file is good to have to debur the end of newly cut cable housing.

THE PROCESS. If you limit the updating to using Campagnolo shifters, then the process is much EASIER than the following might suggest AND you will probably spend more time unwrapping-and-(re-)wrapping the handlebar tape ...

1. unwrap the handlebar tape
2. detach the brake cables from their respective brake calipers
3. remove the brake levers
4. attach the new shifters to the handlebars
5. remove the downtube shifters & detach the cables from their respective derailleurs
6. attach the downtube cable stops
7. measure & cut the cable housing (I generally use coiled BRAKE cable housing for my derailleur cables)
8. lube the cables with a dab of Vaseline-or-equivalent (recommended) OR White Lithium Grease
9. insert (!) cables in the shifters (frayed ends are your enemy ... if necessary, create a "leader" by wrapping the ends with some clear tape) & into the housings ...
10. tape the cable housing onto the handlebars with EITHER masking tape OR packing tape (I recommend that unless you replace the cable housing every month, then do NOT use electrical tape)
11. attach the cable to their respective brakes/derailleurs
12. adjust the cables (consult www.parktool.com or YouTube if needed)
13. wrap the handlebars with the (new-or-used) handlebar tape
14. test
15. adjust, again, as necessary
16. DONE!?!

A "work stand" of some type is beneficial ...

• some people suspend their bike from hooks attached to cords hung from their ceiling ...
• I have both a cumbersome Park Tool stand & a simple Y-stand which simply holds the rear wheel off the ground which I use 99.999% of the time

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Chris Juden's matrix probably tells 99% of the story ...

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Indexed 7-speed Cog spacing & 8-speed Cog spacing are essentially the same ...

• The "old Dura-Ace" column heading means that the rear derailleur cable is attached at 9 o'clock ...
• The 'Hubbub" column heading means that the rear derailleur cable is attached at 3 o'clock (as pictured) ...

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• http://www.hubbubcustom.com/articles_ergopower.html

• http://www.ctc.org.uk/cyclists-library/components/transmission-gears/derailleur-gears/shimergo (a more-or-less updated article)

Here are some suitable shifters on eBay ...

• http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-2014-Campagnolo-Veloce-Power-Shift-10-Speed-Ergo-Lever-Silver-Alloy-Shifters-/301171257931?pt=US_Shifters&hash=item461f34b24b (new) ... Velo Mine also has similar shifters on eBay, periodically.

• http://www.ebay.com/itm/Campi-Centaur-10-x-2-shift-brake-levers-/301179361530?pt=US_Shifters&hash=item461fb058fa (used ... this is just an example)

FYI. The RAMPING compensates for any imprecision to the point where I tried using 9-speed Campagnolo shifters with a 9-speed Shimano Cassette. The result was simply that ONE intermediate Cog simply by-passed by the shifter & effectively making it an 8-speed bike ...
I also tried the 9-speed Camapgnolo shifters with a Ramped. 8-speed Cassette & an UN-Ramped 8-speed Cassette ... it worked fine with the former & did NOT work with the un-Ramped 8-speed Cassette.

Because the Ramping on the Cogs cures virtually ALL indexing imprecision when Campagnolo shifters are used, I suspect that the 11-speed shifters may be "okay" without using any alternate cable anchoring ... the caveat being that the pulleys may wear out prematurely if the indexing isn't aligned "perfectly."

That's a good looking Olmo, Alfeng!


Thanks.

 

[Froze]

I'm a huge Miyata fan, I own two of them, an 1988 712 I found in a garage sale about 15 years ago for $50! and a 1987 Team I bought new in 87. The late 80's 312 was a good deal back then for a budget racing bike which was the only bike I can remember in that price bracket that had triple butted tubing which was a fantastic frame. the derailleur system (if you have the original stuff) was just ok, while it was SIS it used cheap internal parts subject to failure, but the bike was a starter racing bike meant to be upgraded which most people did usually to 105 SIS. SIS system Shimano developed was the fastest shifting derailleur system ever made even to this day! I have both the Dura Ace SIS and the Ultegra SIS and both of those shift faster than my 1 year old 105 STI or last years models of Dura Ace and Ultegra I tried out. I also owned a 512 I bought 4 months ago for the sole purpose of giving it to a teenager I knew who needed a bike, it had the 105 SIS and it too was faster than any of the new stuff. So if you ever need a new derailleur just hop on E-bay and look for 105 SIS, you can get those in new condition for less than $35, heck even the Ultegra SIS you can find for under $45. I had to replace the original 105 SIS on the 512 because the spring rusted and broke which is why I only paid $50 for the bike, So I put a new 105 SIS, new cables, tires, tubes, and a seat for an investment of about $150 and it worked great, the teenage kid rides it almost everyday.