25 miles and a couple of questions

OK, so I am really diggin' the new Ellsworth Isis. I have a lizard skin on the swingarm, but
dropping off of anything bigger than a curb makes a lot of chain noise. Is this normal? I don't
think the chain is hitting the swingarm, just slapping around a lot and making the usual accompaning
noises that you would expect. maybe it is a bit long, any tips on what the proper length should be?
I would never go into big/big gear.

Hi Bob, er uhhh, pedal bob. This is a new one to me, it is noticable, I have the rear shock with
compression and rebound as tight as they get, but I notice about a quarter inch of rythmic
compression on the rear shock while pedaling. Is this normal, is it impossible to pedal
completly smooth?

Ungodly acceleration. I switched from a Santa Cruz Chameleon hardtail to the Isis, and switched
from platform to SPD's at the same time, does this bike accelerate like a rocket ship, or is this
a result from being clipped to the pedals? If it is the pedals, how come nobody mentioned this to
me before?

Foot Cramps, ahhh, see the above paragraph. since I cannot change my foot position throughout the
ride, they have a tendancy to get tired of being in the same position all the time, is this normal
for new clipless users? should I expect this to go away soon?
--
Jerry mtblvr@nospam.cfl.rr.com remove the nospam and the period to email me.

> Foot Cramps, ahhh, see the above paragraph. since I cannot change my foot position throughout the
> ride, they have a tendancy to get tired of being in the same position all the time, is this normal
> for new clipless users? should I expect this to go away soon?

Foot cramps can be caused by several problems: If your shoes do not have stiff soles, long rides can
cause foot fatigue with all that pressure on just one small part of your foot. Solution: Get a pair
of shoes with stiffer soles

Your shoes may not have an arch support. Solution: Get some Superfeet insoles, or a shoe with built
in arch support.

Your cleats may not be in the proper position. Solution: Try adjusting the cleats fore/aft to see if
there is any improvement.

If none of these sound like the problem, you could be right... you might just not be conditioned to
riding clipless. I never had any trouble with foot fatigue when I switched, however. HTH.

-John Morgan

MTB Lover asks: <snip>
> Ungodly acceleration. I switched from a Santa Cruz Chameleon hardtail to the Isis, and switched
> from platform to SPD's at the same time, does this bike accelerate like a rocket ship, or is this
> a result from being clipped to the pedals? If it is the pedals, how come nobody mentioned this to
> me before?
>

Oh, yes, clipless should improve power transfer, most especially for newer riders, or ones that do
not concentrate on the pedal stroke. In my experience, it is much easier to pedal circles using
clipless than flats, and you can definitely "pull" on the upstroke with each leg, which is close
to impossible with flats. Yeah, I know, some really talented folks can do it, using grippy flats,
and tilting the pedal, pressing back against it, but clipless makes this portion of the stroke so
much easier!

Not sure why you haven't heard this before, as it was one of my chief reasons for switching to
clipless. I don't pedal great circles, but I am better after having ridden clipless for so long.

Mike

On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 01:09:11 GMT, MTB Lover <mtblvr@nospam.cfl.rr.com> wrote:

>OK, so I am really diggin' the new Ellsworth Isis. I have a lizard skin on the swingarm, but
>dropping off of anything bigger than a curb makes a lot of chain noise. Is this normal? I don't
>think the chain is hitting the swingarm, just slapping around a lot and making the usual
>accompaning noises that you would expect. maybe it is a bit long, any tips on what the proper
>length should be? I would never go into big/big gear.

Patient: Doctor it hurts when I do that. Doctor: Stop doing that.

>
>Hi Bob, er uhhh, pedal bob. This is a new one to me, it is noticable, I have the rear shock with
>compression and rebound as tight as they get, but I notice about a quarter inch of rythmic
>compression on the rear shock while pedaling. Is this normal, is it impossible to pedal
>completly smooth?

Of course it's normal.....for your circumstances. Any time you have a full sus., you'll get pedal
bob. If anyone tells you different they're full of SH!Ti. Unless of course you have some hyped up
"Full Lock Out" thingy.

>
>Ungodly acceleration. I switched from a Santa Cruz Chameleon hardtail to the Isis, and switched
>from platform to SPD's at the same time, does this bike accelerate like a rocket ship, or is this
>a result from being clipped to the pedals? If it is the pedals, how come nobody mentioned this to
>me before?

Most likely the pedals, clipless peds lead to more efficient power transfer. Nobody told you this
because you should have figured it out on your own.

>
>Foot Cramps, ahhh, see the above paragraph. since I cannot change my foot position throughout the
>ride, they have a tendancy to get tired of being in the same position all the time, is this normal
>for new clipless users? should I expect this to go away soon?

Try some clipless peds with more float or get over it.

Peace, Bill

...one speed to rule them all, one speed to find them, one speed to bring them all and on the trails
pass them In the Land of Avalon where the geared pigs lie...

John Morgan wrote:
>>Foot Cramps, ahhh, see the above paragraph. since I cannot change my foot position throughout the
>>ride, they have a tendancy to get tired of being in the same position all the time, is this normal
>>for new clipless users? should I expect this to go away soon?
>
>
>
> Foot cramps can be caused by several problems: If your shoes do not have stiff soles, long rides
> can cause foot fatigue with all that pressure on just one small part of your foot. Solution: Get a
> pair of shoes with stiffer soles
>
> Your shoes may not have an arch support. Solution: Get some Superfeet insoles, or a shoe with
> built in arch support.
>
> Your cleats may not be in the proper position. Solution: Try adjusting the cleats fore/aft to see
> if there is any improvement.
>
> If none of these sound like the problem, you could be right... you might just not be conditioned
> to riding clipless. I never had any trouble with foot fatigue when I switched, however. HTH.
>
> -John Morgan
>
>
The shoes are made by Answer, they seem really stiff, but you are probably right about the arch
support, they feel a bit flat. I moved the cleats all the way back, and this seems to have made a
big improvement. I think I used to ride very close to the middle of my foot on my flats, with vans
shoes (lots o flex). my feet have probably picked up some bad habits, those bastards are gonna have
to learn to fly right.

--
Jerry mtblvr@nospam.cfl.rr.com remove the nospam and the period to email me.

Mike Sparling wrote:

> MTB Lover asks: <snip>
>
>>Ungodly acceleration. I switched from a Santa Cruz Chameleon hardtail to the Isis, and switched
>>from platform to SPD's at the same time, does this bike accelerate like a rocket ship, or is this
>>a result from being clipped to the pedals? If it is the pedals, how come nobody mentioned this to
>>me before?
>>
>
>
> Oh, yes, clipless should improve power transfer, most especially for newer riders, or ones that do
> not concentrate on the pedal stroke. In my experience, it is much easier to pedal circles using
> clipless than flats, and you can definitely "pull" on the upstroke with each leg, which is close
> to impossible with flats. Yeah, I know, some really talented folks can do it, using grippy flats,
> and tilting the pedal, pressing back against it, but clipless makes this portion of the stroke so
> much easier!
>
> Not sure why you haven't heard this before, as it was one of my chief reasons for switching to
> clipless. I don't pedal great circles, but I am better after having ridden clipless for so long.
>
> Mike
>
>
clipless pedals is one of the best thinkgs that ever happened.

--
Jerry mtblvr@nospam.cfl.rr.com remove the nospam and the period to email me.

"Bill Wheeler" <billwheeler@mtbingrocks.net> wrote in message
news7purvo1en86okk5ndr0rs0kr4r1piqrod@4ax.com... <snip>
> >Hi Bob, er uhhh, pedal bob. This is a new one to me, it is noticable, I have the rear shock with
> >compression and rebound as tight as they get, but I notice about a quarter inch of rythmic
> >compression on the rear shock while pedaling. Is this normal, is it impossible to pedal completly
> >smooth?
>
> Of course it's normal.....for your circumstances. Any time you have a full sus., you'll get pedal
> bob. If anyone tells you different they're full of SH!Ti. Unless of course you have some hyped up
> "Full Lock Out" thingy.

And even then it seems that most of the lockout thingies move a bit these days to avoid
catastrophic high pressure explosive destruction of the internal bits when you hit a really big
bump. Or so I'm told.
--
Westie (Replace 'invalid' with 'yahoo' when replying.)

"MTB Lover" <mtblvr@nospam.cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
newsjJvb.25373$86.510497@twister.tampabay.rr.com... <snip>
> >
> clipless pedals is one of the best thinkgs that ever happened.

Are you sure? I've been a dedicated convert to clipless but just recently put flats on bike #2. Not
just cheap flats either but some nice wide Wellgo ones with 'real' pins. I'm beginning to wonder why
I use clipless. I can make a better power stroke with clipless but everything else is better about
flats. They're grippy, they 'release' easily and quickly at any angle, I can bunnyhop and move
around on them much better. Clipless have their place. Flats have their place too.
--
Westie (Replace 'invalid' with 'yahoo' when replying.)

"MTB Lover" <mtblvr@nospam.cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:XGyvb.17499$M31.427749@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> OK, so I am really diggin' the new Ellsworth Isis. I have a lizard skin on the swingarm, but
> dropping off of anything bigger than a curb makes a lot of chain noise. Is this normal? I don't
> think the chain is hitting the swingarm, just slapping around a lot and making the usual
> accompaning noises that you would expect. maybe it is a bit long, any tips on what the proper
> length should be? I would never go into big/big gear.
>
> Hi Bob, er uhhh, pedal bob. This is a new one to me, it is noticable, I have the rear shock with
> compression and rebound as tight as they get, but I notice about a quarter inch of rythmic
> compression on the rear shock while pedaling. Is this normal, is it impossible to pedal
> completly smooth?
>

What shock does your bike have on it? It sound's like it is undersprung if you have to dial in the
compression and rebound all the way. You will destroy the shock if you continue to ride it like
that. If it's an air shock you need more air pressure and if it's a coil you need a heavier spring.
Consider upgrading the shock to a Progressive 5th element. You can completely remove pedal bob with
it and still have an active suspension under you.

And no Bill it's not bull****. If I can pedal a 40lb Bullit around like a XC bike.

Mike

"MTB Lover" <mtblvr@nospam.cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:XGyvb.17499$M31.427749@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
: Foot Cramps, ahhh, see the above paragraph. since I cannot change my foot position throughout the
: ride, they have a tendancy to get tired of being in the same position all the time, is this normal
: for new clipless users? should I expect this to go away soon?
: --
: Jerry mtblvr@nospam.cfl.rr.com remove the nospam and the period to email me.
:

When I first started riding I got a lot of foot cramps. After changing the cleat positioning around
a few times to find just the right spot, and adding better insoles to the shoes the problem went
away and has never come back.

Where are the cramps, exactly. I was getting them in the arch of my foot.

It could also take some conditioning..?

--

FlyingCoyote http://boarsgut.com

--

MTB Lover <mtblvr@nospam.cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:<XGyvb.17499$M31.427749@twister.tampabay.rr.com>...
> OK, so I am really diggin' the new Ellsworth Isis. I have a lizard skin on the swingarm, but
> dropping off of anything bigger than a curb makes a lot of chain noise. Is this normal? I don't
> think the chain is hitting the swingarm, just slapping around a lot and making the usual
> accompaning noises that you would expect. maybe it is a bit long, any tips on what the proper
> length should be? I would never go into big/big gear.

I think that chain length is covered by Sheldon Brown. You might want to google "sheldon brown
chain length"

> Hi Bob, er uhhh, pedal bob. This is a new one to me, it is noticable, I have the rear shock with
> compression and rebound as tight as they get, but I notice about a quarter inch of rythmic
> compression on the rear shock while pedaling. Is this normal, is it impossible to pedal
> completly smooth?

As an ardent "hammerer", I have said "Hi" to Bob as well. It's the price of admission to the
single-pivot, FS club. BUT...

Since you ride clipless, you should be able to pedal in circles, and minimize Bob's intrusion into
your world.

But there is something else you can do, before that shock blows up on you from having set the
way you do:

Romic. Nice coil-spring anti-bob stable platfdorm shock. You could also look at Manitou and their
SPV line, or Progressive's 5th Element line. All cost money over and above what you have spent. You
could unload your current shock on eBay, and take some of the sting out.

This is, of course, if you just can't live with Bob as a riding companion. I never found him to be
such a bother, but I'm weird.
--
Jonesy

I glued a thick form under swingarm on my Proflex / K2 2000.

Fire up MTB 03

MTB Lover wrote:
>
> Hi Bob, er uhhh, pedal bob. This is a new one to me, it is noticable, I have the rear shock with
> compression and rebound as tight as they get, but I notice about a quarter inch of rythmic
> compression on the rear shock while pedaling. Is this normal, is it impossible to pedal
> completly smooth?
>

It can also be due to you not pedaling circles yet. I think that'll go away as you get used to your
system. You'll probably want to experiment a bit with compression and rebound also until you know
what you want.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Michael Dart wrote:
> "MTB Lover" <mtblvr@nospam.cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:XGyvb.17499$M31.427749@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
>
>>OK, so I am really diggin' the new Ellsworth Isis. I have a lizard skin on the swingarm, but
>>dropping off of anything bigger than a curb makes a lot of chain noise. Is this normal? I don't
>>think the chain is hitting the swingarm, just slapping around a lot and making the usual
>>accompaning noises that you would expect. maybe it is a bit long, any tips on what the proper
>>length should be? I would never go into big/big gear.
>>
>>Hi Bob, er uhhh, pedal bob. This is a new one to me, it is noticable, I have the rear shock with
>>compression and rebound as tight as they get, but I notice about a quarter inch of rythmic
>>compression on the rear shock while pedaling. Is this normal, is it impossible to pedal
>>completly smooth?
>>
>
>
> What shock does your bike have on it? It sound's like it is undersprung if you have to dial in the
> compression and rebound all the way. You will destroy the shock if you continue to ride it like
> that. If it's an air shock you need more air pressure and if it's a coil you need a heavier
> spring. Consider upgrading the shock to a Progressive 5th element. You can completely remove pedal
> bob with it and still have an active suspension under you.
>
> And no Bill it's not bull****. If I can pedal a 40lb Bullit around like a XC bike.
>
> Mike
>
>
The shock is a Cane Creek AD 12, I loosened compression and rebound by about 1.5 complete turns, and
it seems to have no effect on the pedal bob, but the ride is a touch plusher, will try this for
awhile, them loosen some more and see what happens.

--
Jerry mtblvr@nospam.cfl.rr.com remove the nospam and the period to email me.

FlyingCoyote wrote:

> "MTB Lover" <mtblvr@nospam.cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:XGyvb.17499$M31.427749@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> : Foot Cramps, ahhh, see the above paragraph. since I cannot change my foot position throughout
> : the ride, they have a tendancy to get tired of being in the same position all the time, is this
> : normal for new clipless users? should I expect this to go away soon?
> : --
> : Jerry mtblvr@nospam.cfl.rr.com remove the nospam and the period to email me.
> :
>
> When I first started riding I got a lot of foot cramps. After changing the cleat positioning
> around a few times to find just the right spot, and adding better insoles to the shoes the problem
> went away and has never come back.
>
> Where are the cramps, exactly. I was getting them in the arch of my foot.
>
> It could also take some conditioning..?
>
exactly the same, and only on the right foot, I noticed the cleats are in a slightly different
position on each shoe, so I will try to make the right one emulate the position of the left one.

--
Jerry mtblvr@nospam.cfl.rr.com remove the nospam and the period to email me.