shins and areas around back of heels....

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Jojo

.....are in pain. I have only been back running (after 18
months off) one week. I am taking it really slow, but I'm
getting enough pain in these areas to keep me walking
instead of running. Should I just walk for a few days or try
"running it out"? jo

Donovan Rebbech

In article <ABH5c.29037$6K7.1885@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>, jojo wrote:
> .....are in pain. I have only been back running (after 18
> months off) one week. I am taking it really slow, but I'm
> getting enough pain in these areas to keep me walking
> instead of running. Should I just walk for a few days or
> try "running it out"?

Take a few days off (try 3 days) and see if it gets better.

"Running it out" the way you mean it (ignore the pain, do
nothing about it) is never a good idea -- this sort of thing
always requires at least some temporary adjustment.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Tanya

Dot

jojo wrote:
> .....are in pain. I have only been back running (after 18
> months off) one week. I am taking it really slow, but I'm
> getting enough pain in these areas to keep me walking
> instead of running. Should I just walk for a few days or
> try "running it out"? jo
>

This sounds like early warning signs (or later) for shin
splints (generically used) and achilles tendonitis (AT). As
Donovan suggested, take some time off - or at low level
activity like biking or swimming.

If the pain is sufficient to keep you walking rather than
running, your body is trying to tell you something. Listen
to it. It could be simple overuse (whatever that is) or
there could be some underlying biomechanical issue. I'd be
tempted to say doing too much too soon (simple overuse) but
if you've gotten that much pain in 1 wk of running, I'd also
wonder about a biomechanical cause or shoes. If you can move
from asphalt to trails might help also.

Also, if you've run in the past, then were off for 18
months, there may be a good chance that what you mentally
perceive as being really slow, is not what your physical
body is perceiving as an appropriate rate of return. 3
nights of walk/run for 5 k plus 1 hr long run on weekend may
not be what your body is ready for, esp. if it isn't the
same weight you were when you were running.

My $.02 for what I'd do. Your and other people's experiences
may differ. If your achilles has a burning sensation (if
not, skip to next paragraph), I'd back off of running, and
any walking do easily, reducing as much stress on tendon as
possible. If you can bike, do it flat footed. RICE. I'd wait
until the burning sensation leaves before I tried much more.
Some motion does facilitate blood circulation and healing in
a functional form (rather than static from no use).

If it's just discomfort, I'd probably continue walking so it
doesn't go beyond that stage. For rehab, I'd look at http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/archive/0031a-achilles-
tendonitis.htm http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/archive/0125-achilles-
tendon-pain.htm

I've used the single-legged squat-like exercises for
initial rehab and lateral strengthening. Then progressed to
heel raises on flat ground and then on a ramp (I like
hills, and this helps immensely). (Progression is over many
weeks or months, not days - at least for me.) Doing these
on ramp is somewhat like eccentric heel raises on edge of
steps, but also allows me to progress to doing them 1-
footed, like running.

Shins I've used toe raises to help here as well as some of
the other exercises to strengthen shin area muscles and
connective tissue. We generally do them straight ahead as
well as with toes pointed outward and inward. You could also
add weights to the toe raises.

http://www.drpribut.com/sports/spshin.html
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0608.htm

The above drills (both shins and AT) are great for
prevention as well as rehab.

Good luck.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Jojo

"Tanya" <crazybikerchick@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:767cf879.0403161512.43111c79@posting.google.com...
> "jojo" <cgv_2000*yourhat*@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:<ABH5c.29037$6K7.1885@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>...
> > .....are in pain. I have only been back running (after
> > 18 months off)
one
> > week. I am taking it really slow, but I'm getting enough
> > pain in these areas to keep me walking instead of
> > running. Should I just walk for a few days or try
> > "running it out"? jo
>
> Maybe you need a new pair of shoes? Also since you've been
> away for a while I wouldn't run more than every other day
> until you start feeling good with it again.

I have an almost new pair of asiacs and an almost new pair
of ryka's. I have been wearing the ryka's but wore the
asiacs on my last run. That made it a lot worse. I'll go
back to the ryka's tonight and try walking more and running
less. I am only running m,w,f, sa & su. each a 30 minute run
except for sunday which is my "long run" of one hour. jo

Jojo

"Donovan Rebbechi" <abuse@aol.com> wrote in message
news:slrnc5ei3v.hql.abuse@panix2.panix.com...
> In article
> <ABH5c.29037$6K7.1885@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>,
> jojo wrote:
> > .....are in pain. I have only been back running (after
> > 18 months off)
one
> > week. I am taking it really slow, but I'm getting enough
> > pain in these areas to keep me walking instead of
> > running. Should I just walk for a few days or try
> > "running it out"?
>
> Take a few days off (try 3 days) and see if it gets
> better.
>
> "Running it out" the way you mean it (ignore the pain, do
> nothing about
it) is
> never a good idea -- this sort of thing always requires at
> least some
temporary
> adjustment.
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Donovan Rebbechi

I will switch to walking, but I can't skip a run right now.
jo
> http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Phil M.

"jojo" <cgv_2000*yourhat*@yahoo.com> wrote in news:_sY5c.71$il5.32
@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com:

> I will switch to walking, but I can't skip a run
> right now.

Why not?

-Phil

Jojo

"Phil M." <pmarg@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Xns94AF6A7B5F224seilogramp@216.77.188.18...
> "jojo" <cgv_2000*yourhat*@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:_sY5c.71$il5.32 @newssvr24.news.prodigy.com:
>
> > I will switch to walking, but I can't skip a run
> > right now.
>
> Why not?
>
> -Phil

It's a motivational thing. I have to do something.

Eno

"jojo" <cgv_2000*yourhat*@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<ABH5c.29037$6K7.1885@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>...
> .....are in pain. I have only been back running (after 18
> months off) one week. I am taking it really slow, but I'm
> getting enough pain in these areas to keep me walking
> instead of running. Should I just walk for a few days or
> try "running it out"? jo

Here are two areas you should look at:

1) First and foremost, I recommend you look into ways to
massage the calves pre and post run, and even while
watching TV. After struggling for some time with calf
soreness, mild Achilles tendonitis and plantar fasciatis,
I have finally rounded the corner to better running by
massaging the calves regularly (at least 3 times per
day). Though there are many methods, after trying several
options, I really like The Stick (TM). Look into it.

2) Make sure your shoes are appropriate for you. Go to a
specialty running shop and have the knowledgeable staff
(preferrably runners themselves) look at you running in
various shoes and have them make a recommendation. In my
case, I also found that adding an insert was needed to
compliment my shoe.

Everyone is different, and your needs may be different. But
relaxed, supple calves with feet in the right shoe is never
a bad combination for starters.

Eno

"jojo" <cgv_2000*yourhat*@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:UrY5c.70$2k5.41@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Tanya" <crazybikerchick@lycos.com> wrote in message
> news:767cf879.0403161512.43111c79@posting.google.com...
> > "jojo" <cgv_2000*yourhat*@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:<ABH5c.29037$6K7.1885@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>...
> > > .....are in pain. I have only been back running (after
> > > 18 months off)
> one
> > > week. I am taking it really slow, but I'm getting
> > > enough pain in these areas to keep me walking instead
> > > of running. Should I just walk for a few days or try
> > > "running it out"? jo
> >
> > Maybe you need a new pair of shoes? Also since you've
> > been away for a while I wouldn't run more than every
> > other day until you start feeling good with it again.
>
> I have an almost new pair of asiacs and an almost new pair
> of ryka's. I
have
> been wearing the ryka's but wore the asiacs on my last
> run. That made it a lot worse. I'll go back to the ryka's

How do you know whether either shoe is good for you? Also,
at this point, you're injured, so running with one shoe vs.
another will not tell you which is best. Get healthy, make
sure you have the right shoes for your body/leg/foot type,
then come back and tell us whether it still hurts :).

--
ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º
eNo
"If you can't go fast, go long."
ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º°`°º¤ø¤º°`°º¤ø,,,,ø¤º

Jojo

> How do you know whether either shoe is good for you? Also,
> at this point, you're injured, so running with one shoe
> vs. another will not tell you
which
> is best. Get healthy, make sure you have the right shoes
> for your body/leg/foot type, then come back and tell us
> whether it still hurts :).

I had both of these shoes professionally fitted.

The Asics were fitted at runtex, where they observe you
running barefoot, ask you questions about problems and
habits you may have, then suggest a shoe. Then they watch
you run in the new shoes till you and they are happy. Then
they let you run outside on the pavement with them for 10
minutes or so, just to make sure you are comfortable.

Ryka did pretty much the same thing, but started with a
computer that took images of the foot as a starting point.

Am I injured? or am I just sore?That is my real question...I
have only been running/walking for little over a week, 30
min. every other day. My current pace is 12-14. This is
frustrating to me, because if this is an injury, what can I
do to prevent it next time. I'm not sure I can go much
slower or easier.

jo

Phil M.

"jojo" <cgv_2000*yourhat*@yahoo.com> wrote in news:eC_5c.98$d86.15
@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com:

>
> "Phil M." <pmarg@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns94AF6A7B5F224seilogramp@216.77.188.18...
>> "jojo" <cgv_2000*yourhat*@yahoo.com> wrote in
>> news:_sY5c.71$il5.32 @newssvr24.news.prodigy.com:
>>
>> > I will switch to walking, but I can't skip a run
>> > right now.
>>
>> Why not?
>>
>> -Phil
>
> It's a motivational thing. I have to do something.
>
>

If it hurts to run, then you shouldn't run. Usually there is
a reason for pain. Stop doing the thing that is causing the
pain. Otherwise, you may cause a more serious problem. If
you are concerned about losing fitness, then try a
stationary bicycle or swimming.

-Phil

Donovan Rebbech

In article <eC_5c.98$d86.15@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>, jojo wrote:
>
> "Phil M." <pmarg@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns94AF6A7B5F224seilogramp@216.77.188.18...
>> "jojo" <cgv_2000*yourhat*@yahoo.com> wrote in
>> news:_sY5c.71$il5.32 @newssvr24.news.prodigy.com:
>>
>> > I will switch to walking, but I can't skip a run
>> > right now.

What you mean is that you won't *skip* a run until you
can't because your doctor has put you in a cast or
something like that.

>> Why not?
>>
>> -Phil
>
> It's a motivational thing. I have to do something.

Then do something that doesn't aggravate the injury
(NOT running).

Since you appear for now to be immune to reason, let me
merely present a theory which you can test.

The theory is that "running through" injury will almost
certainly cause more severe injury.

Now if you do run through it and it does cause more severe
injury, instead of seeing it as an act of god, you'll
hopefully see it as a validation of this theory and learn
something.

Good luck with the experiment, and be sure to post the
results.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Dot

jojo wrote:
>
> Am I injured? or am I just sore?That is my real
> question...

Only *you* really know, but "sore" could be considered a
mild form of injury since it may involve muscle microtears.
Either way, your body is talking to you after only 1 week.
Pay attention to it before it screams at you.

I have only been
> running/walking for little over a week, 30 min. every
> other day. My current pace is 12-14. This is frustrating
> to me, because if this is an injury, what can I do to
> prevent it next time. I'm not sure I can go much slower
> or easier.
>
strength training (in a very general sense = toe/heel raises
as well as other exercises) has already been suggested as
has backing off. Strength training is great for the days
between runs or walks.

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Jojo

"Donovan Rebbechi" <abuse@aol.com> wrote in message
news:slrnc5i58t.34e.abuse@panix2.panix.com...
> In article <eC_5c.98$d86.15@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>,
> jojo wrote:
> >
> > "Phil M." <pmarg@charter.net> wrote in message
> > news:Xns94AF6A7B5F224seilogramp@216.77.188.18...
> >> "jojo" <cgv_2000*yourhat*@yahoo.com> wrote in
> >> news:_sY5c.71$il5.32 @newssvr24.news.prodigy.com:
> >>
> >> > I will switch to walking, but I can't skip a run
> >> > right now.
>
> What you mean is that you won't *skip* a run until you
> can't because your doctor has put you in a cast or
> something like that.
>
> >> Why not?
> >>
> >> -Phil
> >
> > It's a motivational thing. I have to do something.
>
> Then do something that doesn't aggravate the injury (NOT
> running).
>
> Since you appear for now to be immune to reason, let me
> merely present a theory which you can test.
>
> The theory is that "running through" injury will almost
> certainly cause
more
> severe injury.
>
> Now if you do run through it and it does cause more severe
> injury, instead
of
> seeing it as an act of god, you'll hopefully see it as a
> validation of
this
> theory and learn something.
>
> Good luck with the experiment, and be sure to post the
> results.
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Well...turns out fate made the decision. I have some how
contracted strep throat and will need to take a few days off
anyway. This will give things time to heal. Ok, given your
theory, Monday was my last run. If I feel well enough I will
try another on Saturday? That is 4 days rest. Should I just
walk on Saturday? How do I approach this cautiously and
effectively to get back on track without any further injury?

thanks, jo

Jojo

"Dot" <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in message
news:cFb6c.28656$Pa7.742859@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> jojo wrote:
> >
> > Am I injured? or am I just sore?That is my real
> > question...
>
> Only *you* really know, but "sore" could be considered a
> mild form of injury since it may involve muscle
> microtears. Either way, your body is talking to you after
> only 1 week. Pay attention to it before it screams at you.
>
>
> I have only been
> > running/walking for little over a week, 30 min. every
> > other day. My current pace is 12-14. This is frustrating
> > to me, because if this is an injury, what can I do to
> > prevent it next time. I'm not
sure I
> > can go much slower or easier.
> >
> strength training (in a very general sense = toe/heel
> raises as well as other exercises) has already been
> suggested as has backing off. Strength training is great
> for the days between runs or walks.
>
> --
> "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
> Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
>

How do I strength train the areas? or even stretch those
areas? the area around the sides and back of the heal, and
the are on the front outside of the shin bones> thanks, jo

Donovan Rebbech

In article <uMh6c.257$PU5.63@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com>, jojo wrote:
>

> Well...turns out fate made the decision. I have some how
> contracted strep throat and will need to take a few days
> off anyway. This will give things time to heal. Ok, given
> your theory, Monday was my last run. If I feel well enough
> I will try another on Saturday? That is 4 days rest.
> Should I just walk on Saturday? How do I approach this
> cautiously and effectively to get back on track without
> any further injury?

It's pretty easy to track achilles tendon injuries ("areas
around back of heels) -- they always feel sore when you get
out of bed in the morning. So pay attention to how it feels
first thing in the morning. As for your shins, a 5 day
layoff should be a good start. If the injured areas cause
any discomfort when you run, even if it's small, then don't
run. If you have access to a bike (stationary or moving) or
an elliptical, I'd recommend these -- you can do this sort
of exercise without irritating the injuries you've
described. Otherwise you could just walk. I agree that it's
important to do *something* even if the only benefit is to
maintain exercise habits.

BTW, the fact that you have achilles tendon problems and
shin splints at the same time should be sufficient to make
you want to review your training and see if you can find out
what went wrong. It almost certainly has something to do
with pushing too hard, too much too soon or both.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

Dot

jojo wrote:
> "Dot" <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in message news:cFb6c.28656$Pa7.742859@bgtnsc05-
> news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>

>>strength training (in a very general sense = toe/heel
>>raises as well as other exercises) has already been
>>suggested as has backing off. Strength training is great
>>for the days between runs or walks.
>>

>
> How do I strength train the areas? or even stretch those
> areas? the area around the sides and back of the heal, and
> the are on the front outside of the shin bones> thanks, jo
>
>
I've had both shin (mild) and achilles issues (potentially
recurring if I don't keep up with the drills), which is what
your issues sound like. Yes, I was surprised the first time
I realized there was soft tissue on the front of my shin
that could hurt ;) Even the shin area can be stretched
(kneel then sit on heels, but if you have knee contra
indications, don't do this. In my cross-training class, we
also took it a little farther than that, but I can't
describe exactly what we did.)

For rehab for achilles, I'd look at http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/archive/0031a-achilles-
tendonitis.htm http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/archive/0125-achilles-
tendon-pain.htm

I've used the single-legged squat-like exercises for
initial rehab and lateral strengthening. Then progressed to
heel raises on flat ground and then on a ramp (I like
hills, and this helps immensely). (Progression is over many
weeks or months, not days - at least for me.) Doing these
on ramp is somewhat like eccentric heel raises on edge of
steps, but also allows me to progress to doing them 1-
footed, like running.

Shins I've used toe raises to help here as well as some of
the other exercises to strengthen shin area muscles and
connective tissue. We generally do them straight ahead as
well as with toes pointed outward and inward (ditto for the
heel raises). You could also add weights to the toe raises.

http://www.drpribut.com/sports/spshin.html
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0608.htm

The above drills (both shins and AT) are great for
prevention as well as rehab.

I also made some other comments in my original post on 3/16
mostly regarding that what your mind remembers as normal
before layoff may not be what your physical body is saying
is acceptable now.

FWIW, while I'd much rather be running, I've found adding
some strength training in moderation (otherwise it affects
running next day) on days between or on really icy days or
whatever gives me the feeling that I'm progressing toward my
running goals, rather than seeing it as a not-running day
(glass half full / half empty). All my strength training
gets done in my living room (stability ball, hand weights)
or utility room where I've got the ramp set up - or on lawn
when it's not snow covered (only 1 neighbor can see me and
they know I'm nuts anyway).

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Phil M.

Dot <dot.h@#att.net> wrote in news:zul6c.46664$H44.854672@bgtnsc04-
news.ops.worldnet.att.net:

> Yes, I was surprised the first time I realized there was
> soft tissue on the front of my shin that could hurt ;)

Here's a good shot of it -
http://www.rad.washington.edu/atlas2/tibialisanterior.html

-Phil

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