View Full Version : What happened to Winter?
Sheesh. Winter doesn't even officially end until March 20th,
and here in California's San Gabriel Valley we've been
having temps in the 90's! I went to the track at lunch
yesterday, but the 90-degree ambient temperature was
amplified inside the stadium like a giant sun-bowl to
probably 100 degrees. I ran two miles, and was absolutely
drenched. Then they released a coed PE class to walk laps in
that heat, and the track was swamped with 70-80 kids to
boot. The very rare case where I bailed on a workout. Today
is even hotter.
But it leads to a question: Is there a simple rough
equivalent for comparing air-oxygen changes due to rises in
temperature of the air with air-oxygen changes due to rises
in elevation? Hot air is less dense, and has less oxygen.
Ditto for air at high elevations.
What I'm getting at is, can you say, for example, that a 10-
degree temperature increase is like a 2,000-foot elevation
increase (or whatever the figures come out to)? (Laying
aside all the other effects of the heat!)
"TopCounsel" <topcounsel@aol.com> wrote in message
> Sheesh. Winter doesn't even officially end until March
> 20th, and here in California's San Gabriel Valley we've
> been having temps in the 90's!
I'll trade you. We are in the middle of a pretty serious
winter storm here, complete with very high winds and a
generous dumping of snow.
cheers,
--
David (in Hamilton, ON) www.allfalldown.org "The most
insecure people are the ones you see, putting other people
down constantly."
>We are in the middle of a pretty serious winter storm here,
>complete with very
high winds and a generous dumping of snow.
I was going to blame our winter heat on Global Warming, but
I guess it isn't very global after all...
TopCounsel <topcounsel@aol.com> wrote:
> I was going to blame our winter heat on Global Warming,
> but I guess it isn't very global after all...
actually, global warming leads to weird climate changes all
over and it doesn't have to mean only heating up. heat here,
cold there, rain elsewhere ...
today we had 89F. not as bad as january last year when we
had 90+ F.
Topcounsel wrote:
>Sheesh. Winter doesn't even officially end until March
>20th, and here in California's San Gabriel Valley we've
>been having temps in the 90's! I went to the track at lunch
>yesterday, but the 90-degree ambient temperature was
>amplified inside the stadium like a giant sun-bowl to
>probably 100 degrees. I ran two miles, and was absolutely
>drenched.
Not everywhere. Here in Monarch Beach it was FOG: Almost all
day, high of 71. Yesterday, I had a track workout with some
college track runners (I mean blocks and hurdles, not runing
laps), and it was barely warm enough to run with my shirt
off. Around here that qualifies as winter.
Winter in So Cal: when it gets below 68 degrees, the native
Californians put their winter coats on....
Lyndon "Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!"
--US Olympic Track Coach Brooks Johnson
TopCounsel wrote:
> Sheesh. Winter doesn't even officially end until March
> 20th, and here in California's San Gabriel Valley we've
> been having temps in the 90's!
We're finally getting our March snow, although not the
couple feet dumps that we sometimes get - at least not yet.
But we're only half way through :)
I felt naked last Thursday - no snowshoes, 1 layer over t-
shirt, no wind shell - and running in slush. Those
circumstances resolved by Sunday when I could run (regular)
on firm snow. Then it snowed a few inches again between
yesterday and today - which has now covered the re-frozen
ice, but not enough for traction.
>
> But it leads to a question: Is there a simple rough
> equivalent for comparing air-oxygen changes due to rises
> in temperature of the air with air-oxygen changes due to
> rises in elevation? Hot air is less dense, and has less
> oxygen. Ditto for air at high elevations.
>
> What I'm getting at is, can you say, for example, that a
> 10-degree temperature increase is like a 2,000-foot
> elevation increase (or whatever the figures come out to)?
> (Laying aside all the other effects of the heat!)
This might be what you're looking for (density altitude
calculations from aviation)
http://wahiduddin.net/calc/calc_da.htm
with background info here
http://wahiduddin.net/calc/density_altitude.htm
OR a simpler version is about 6.5C/km (approximately
3.5F/1000ft)
http://vortex.plymouth.edu/atmosphere/layers.html
OTOH, I just realized last night that my watch didn't have a
Feb 29 and it's been indicating one day fast for 2 weeks
(and I thought it was the Iditarod causing my problems ;),
and the above might be wrong or not what you're looking for.
Dot
--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
Lyndon wrote:
>
> Winter in So Cal: when it gets below 68 degrees, the
> native Californians put their winter coats on....
and Alaskans have long since melted :)
Dot
--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 01:07:38 +0000 (UTC),
jobin@REMOVE-DEEZ-WORDS.cs.ucr.edu wrote:
>today we had 89F. not as bad as january last year when we
>had 90+ F.
When are you Yankee numpties going to catch up with the
civilised world and use degrees Celsius when discussing
temperature?
I tan I epi tas wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 01:07:38 +0000 (UTC), jobin@REMOVE-DEEZ-
> WORDS.cs.ucr.edu wrote:
>
>
>>today we had 89F. not as bad as january last year when we
>>had 90+ F.
>
>
> When are you Yankee numpties going to catch up with the
> civilised world and use degrees Celsius when discussing
> temperature?
We fought a bloody war so we wouldn't have to use those
bloody measures. Remember the red coats getting their ass
kicked. ;)
--
Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" dfreeseS@NOBShvc.rr.com
topcounsel@aol.com (TopCounsel) wrote in message news:<20040316195124.29838.00001430@mb-m21.aol.com>...
> >We are in the middle of a pretty serious winter storm
> >here, complete with very
> high winds and a generous dumping of snow.
>
> I was going to blame our winter heat on Global Warming,
> but I guess it isn't very global after all...
The thing a bout global warming that I have not seen anyone
present is this:
We are likely in a transition from one relatively stable
global temperature to another higher global average. In that
transition there is and will be turbulence. So there will be
times and places where is will be COLDER than historical
averages, even as the GLOBAL average temperature rises.
So if you doubt Global Warming just because you had a colder
or longer winter, you are really only fooling yourself.
Now back to your regularly scheduled running program! Ed
On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:20:49 GMT, Doug Freese <dfreese@NOBShvc.rr.com>
wrote:
>We fought a bloody war so we wouldn't have to use those
>bloody measures.
Methinks you fought your War of Independence not for
purposes of avoiding implementing the Celsius/Metric scales,
but because you're a deeply fragmented people who are only
unified in times of an easily identified internal or
external threat, vis, 'evil' people within or without the
USofA (in this instance, the beastly Red Indians or the
decadent Brits).
Without an enemy to thwack you have nothing against which to
measure yourselves. You are lost, prone to internal angst,
like a bully who has no-one to fight. No wonder you
'encourage' the emerging nations of the world to queue up to
take a swing at you.
Yep, that 95° heat on Sunday the 7th dashed my 4:20 L.A.
Marathon goal. I've decided my next marathon will be one in
the 40°'s, wherever that may take me.
M.T.
On 17 Mar 2004 00:14:12 GMT, topcounsel@aol.com
(TopCounsel) wrote:
>Sheesh. Winter doesn't even officially end until March
>20th, and here in California's San Gabriel Valley we've
>been having temps in the 90's! I went to the track at lunch
>yesterday, but the 90-degree ambient temperature was
>amplified inside the stadium like a giant sun-bowl to
>probably 100 degrees. I ran two miles, and was absolutely
>drenched. Then they released a coed PE class to walk laps
>in that heat, and the track was swamped with 70-80 kids to
>boot. The very rare case where I bailed on a workout. Today
>is even hotter.
>
>But it leads to a question: Is there a simple rough
>equivalent for comparing air-oxygen changes due to rises in
>temperature of the air with air-oxygen changes due to rises
>in elevation? Hot air is less dense, and has less oxygen.
>Ditto for air at high elevations.
>
>What I'm getting at is, can you say, for example, that a
>10-degree temperature increase is like a 2,000-foot
>elevation increase (or whatever the figures come out to)?
>(Laying aside all the other effects of the heat!)
I tan I epi tas wrote:
> Methinks
You usually get into trouble with this premise, thinking.
> Without an enemy to thwack you have nothing against which
> to measure yourselves. You are lost, prone to internal
> angst, like a bully who has no-one to fight. No wonder you
> 'encourage' the emerging nations of the world to queue up
> to take a swing at you.
Please don't confuse our war mongering A-hole president with
the general public. Shall I equate you with the current 10
Downing Street resident Tony Blair?
--
Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" dfreeseS@NOBShvc.rr.com
"Doug Freese" <dfreese@NOBShvc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:2nb6c.27491$tP6.7352442@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> I tan I epi tas wrote:
>
>
> > Methinks
>
> You usually get into trouble with this premise, thinking.
>
>
> > Without an enemy to thwack you have nothing against
> > which to measure yourselves. You are lost, prone to
> > internal angst, like a bully
who
> > has no-one to fight. No wonder you 'encourage' the
> > emerging
nations
> > of the world to queue up to take a swing at you.
>
> Please don't confuse our war mongering A-hole president
> with the general public.
Doug, you swapped the order here by mistake. Don't confuse
some of the a-hole people with the president.
Shall I equate you with the current 10 Downing
> Street resident Tony Blair?
>
> --
> Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" dfreeseS@NOBShvc.rr.com
On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 06:31:26 GMT, Doug Freese <dfreese@NOBShvc.rr.com>
wrote:
> Shall I equate you with the current 10 Downing Street
> resident Tony Blair?
Hmm, let me see...
An attractive, balding, egotist with an eccentric wife, wild
kids, living a life beyond his means, employed in a job
that's about to crumble around his ears, driving in
expensive cars, meeting strange and interesting people,
responsible for conflicts based on his imaginings and not on
reality, and with a legion of young female admirers.
Why Douglas! You have me sussed!
topcounsel@aol.com (TopCounsel) wrote in message news:<20040316191412.29838.00001427@mb-m21.aol.com>...
> Sheesh. Winter doesn't even officially end until March
> 20th, and here in California's San Gabriel Valley we've
> been having temps in the 90's! I went to the track at
> lunch yesterday, but the 90-degree ambient temperature was
> amplified inside the stadium like a giant sun-bowl to
> probably 100 degrees. I ran two miles, and was absolutely
> drenched. Then they released a coed PE class to walk laps
> in that heat, and the track was swamped with 70-80 kids to
> boot. The very rare case where I bailed on a workout.
> Today is even hotter.
>
> But it leads to a question: Is there a simple rough
> equivalent for comparing air-oxygen changes due to rises
> in temperature of the air with air-oxygen changes due to
> rises in elevation? Hot air is less dense, and has less
> oxygen. Ditto for air at high elevations.
>
> What I'm getting at is, can you say, for example, that a
> 10-degree temperature increase is like a 2,000-foot
> elevation increase (or whatever the figures come out to)?
> (Laying aside all the other effects of the heat!)
oh shut up. In California there's no such thing as
"winter." Here in the wonderful state of New York it's
snowing right now.
"I tan I epi tas" <thrashtheforeignguys@thermopylae.com> wrote in message
news:n4qg50tjvqqis23sc5ihsggm034rkvedn2@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 01:07:38 +0000 (UTC), jobin@REMOVE-DEEZ-
> WORDS.cs.ucr.edu wrote:
>
> >today we had 89F. not as bad as january last year when we
> >had 90+ F.
>
> When are you Yankee numpties going to catch up with the
> civilised world and use degrees Celsius when discussing
> temperature?
>
I guess we switch to Celsius when pubs switch to liters.
Traditions die hard.
On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 00:14:12 UTC, topcounsel@aol.com (TopCounsel)
wrote:
> What I'm getting at is, can you say, for example, that a
> 10-degree temperature increase is like a 2,000-foot
> elevation increase (or whatever the figures come out to)?
> (Laying aside all the other effects of the heat!)
>
This URL has a table that relates "density altitude" to
temperature and elevation. Density altitude is altitude
corrected for temperature and pressure. It is the altitude
that would have the same atmospheric density on a standard
day defined as 59 degrees F and barometric pressure of 29.92
as it does at the altitude and temperature in the table. The
URL is: http://www.csgnetwork.com/pralttodensalttable.html.
--
___________________________
Charlie Schwartz
>oh shut up.
Very pleasant. You can't possibly be jealous of our
"opportunity" to run in winter with temps in the
triple digits?
>In California there's no such thing as "winter."
California is a BIG place, remember? It's the size of
France. We have the Sierra Nevada Mountains, Mt. Shasta, Mt.
Whitney, Mammoth Mountain, Lake Tahoe, and the lovely climes
of Death Valley and the Mojave Desert. We got winter,
alright. Even here where I live in the San Gabriel foothills
we get freezing mornings from October to February.
Damn, I just went to the track again within the hour and did
5600m in 90 degrees. I'm used to getting heat at certain
times of the year (July, August, September), but not this
early. It makes me wonder what kind of hell's in store for
us in the "hotter" months!
Is it a nearly universal experience that it's about 10
degrees hotter inside a bowl-shaped track stadium on
sunny days?
"I tan I epi tas" <thrashtheforeignguys@thermopylae.com> wrote in message
news:vrah50tpamsqmrhc2fmr90oufphrliokaj@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:20:49 GMT, Doug Freese
> <dfreese@NOBShvc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >We fought a bloody war so we wouldn't have to use those
> >bloody measures.
>
> Methinks you fought your War of Independence not for
> purposes of avoiding implementing the Celsius/Metric
> scales, but because you're a deeply fragmented people who
> are only unified in times of an easily identified internal
> or external threat, vis, 'evil' people within or without
> the USofA (in this instance, the beastly Red Indians or
> the decadent Brits).
>
And my history teachers always taught the British fought the
French & Indian War.
Enough of the historic revisionism on both sides, how about
discussing running.
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