Numb nuts

[Fat Lad]

Hello!

I get numbness after about 30 minutes. I don't know if it is my saddle or riding position, or the saddle itself.

I ride a stock Marin Kentfield 19" which has a (supposed) comfort saddle. This is a hybrid type bike with a resonably upright position.

I have only been using the bike for about 4 weeks and have just passed the 100mile mark (wahay!). This week I have been commuting - 6 miles each way and am noticing this worrying sensation.

I ride almost upright but have been leaning forward a bit more as I am getting used to cycling. I assumed it was the change in position that was causing the numbing and so have tilted my saddle forward. This has not helped and I am slipping forward a bit so I will have to adjust back. I only moved it two notches so I don't expect returning it one notch will solve the problem.

I have also heightened my saddle recently to fit my leg length - almost but not quite a straight leg with the pedal at 6 o'clock.

I am not convinced the numbness only started this week, it is just more noticeable. In previous weeks I was doing 10 miles and just having a sore **** that I attributed to not being used to cycling - this is improving.

I was reading somewhere about saddle tilt adjustment for this exact problem but I have lost the link so any ideas on this would be appreciated.

Also I have seen the Specialized body geometry saddles and was wondering if this is the way to go. Has anyone any experience of these? The sales blurb is very convincing but apart from the groove I can't see that much difference to my existing saddle.

Your help and advice would be appreciated, not just by me but by all the other passengers on the 8:17 to Euston who are worried about the weirdo at the back fiddling with himself! :p

Regards

[McBain_v1]

Originally posted by Fat Lad
Hello!

I get numbness after about 30 minutes. I don't know if it is my saddle or riding position, or the saddle itself.

[edit]

I ride almost upright but have been leaning forward a bit more as I am getting used to cycling. I assumed it was the change in position that was causing the numbing and so have tilted my saddle forward. This has not helped and I am slipping forward a bit so I will have to adjust back. I only moved it two notches so I don't expect returning it one notch will solve the problem.

I have also heightened my saddle recently to fit my leg length - almost but not quite a straight leg with the pedal at 6 o'clock.

[edit]

I was reading somewhere about saddle tilt adjustment for this exact problem but I have lost the link so any ideas on this would be appreciated.

Also I have seen the Specialized body geometry saddles and was wondering if this is the way to go. Has anyone any experience of these? The sales blurb is very convincing but apart from the groove I can't see that much difference to my existing saddle.

Your help and advice would be appreciated, not just by me but by all the other passengers on the 8:17 to Euston who are worried about the weirdo at the back fiddling with himself! :p

Regards

Ah yes, the worrying sensation of losing all contact with "the family jewels" after a while :eek: An affliction that can be most disconcerting and something that a lot of riders will have suffered before finding a set-up that works for them.

Speaking personally I would not advocate altering the saddle position so the 'nose' of the saddle is pointing downward. I always try and ensure that my saddle is parallel with the ground.

I have one of those so-called Body-Geometric saddles on my winter bike but cannot say that it makes a huge difference. Sometimes it feels as though I am sat astride two walls with a gap inbetween.

I am thinking of going for the SaddleCo Flow saddle which gets some good write ups (click here (http://www.saddleco.com)) and seems a neat idea - sort of like a hammock for your **** :D

[Dirtylitterboxo]

>I get numbness after about 30 minutes. I don't know if it
>is my saddle or riding position, or the saddle itself.

If you aren't already wearing padded cycling shorts -
consider getting a pair. I wear Lycra cycling shorts
underneath my RonHill Bikesters - I wouldn't dream of
cycling on a bike without having the padded bits on my
nether regions. They *do* make a difference.

A comfortable saddle is a very individual thing and a
comfortable saddle is essential to The Joy Of Cycling. It
may be that your current saddle is not for you no matter how
much you adjust it. For example, on my everday bike, the
saddle that was on it caused me *agony*. Changed it to a
Terry's Liberator TiLite and the difference was incredible -
I can now cycle for miles without an ache or pain in the
nether regions.

Are you wearing jeans to cycle in? If so, stop wearing them
*immediately*. The raised seams on jeans are not made for
comfort when cycling.

In the meantime, periodically cycle with your backside
up off the saddle, to give you delicate bits a chance
to un-unumb.

Best of luck, helen s

--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam-- to get
correct one remove fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel
is switched off--

[Whingin' Pom]

On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 09:27:45 GMT, Fat Lad
<usenet-forum@cyclingforums.com> () wrote:

>Hello!

Hi, Fat Lad!

>Also I have seen the Specialized body geometry saddles and
>was wondering if this is the way to go. Has anyone any
>experience of these? The sales blurb is very convincing but
>apart from the groove I can't see that much difference to
>my existing saddle.

I use one of them on my OCR3 and quite like it for the short
(3 mile) commute to work. It's alright, really. I tried a
few and this was the best of them for me, but I wouldn't
want to do any serious distance on
it. Or any upright saddle, come to that. The Dark Side is
much more comfortable. :-)

Give the saddle a try and see if you like it. Your LBS may
be willing to lend you one.

Or you could always consider mortgaging your soul,
growing a beard and cycling everywhere with a huge grin
on your face...
--
Matt K Dunedin, NZ

[Elyob]

"dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers" <wafflycathcs@aol.comcomcom> wrote in
message news:20040402051101.29966.00000603@mb-m11.aol.com...
> >
> >I get numbness after about 30 minutes. I don't know if it
> >is my saddle or riding position, or the saddle itself.
>
>
> If you aren't already wearing padded cycling shorts -
> consider getting a
pair.
> I wear Lycra cycling shorts underneath my RonHill
> Bikesters - I wouldn't
dream
> of cycling on a bike without having the padded bits on my
> nether regions.
They
> *do* make a difference.

Your real name isn't Miriam per chance?

[Peter Clinch]

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers wrote:

> If you aren't already wearing padded cycling shorts -
> consider getting a pair. I wear Lycra cycling shorts
> underneath my RonHill Bikesters - I wouldn't dream of
> cycling on a bike without having the padded bits on my
> nether regions. They *do* make a difference.

Though if you've already got pressure on the Norti Bitz to
induce numbness, putting extra padding may just increase the
pressure. Padding does have its uses, but you shouldn't be
resting on any of those bits at all so padding the interface
is probably the wrong way here (though by all means get some
for longer trips for a general comfort increase once you've
sorted this particular problem).

> A comfortable saddle is a very individual thing and a
> comfortable saddle is essential to The Joy Of Cycling. It
> may be that your current saddle is not for you no matter
> how much you adjust it. For example, on my everday bike,
> the saddle that was on it caused me *agony*. Changed it to
> a Terry's Liberator TiLite and the difference was
> incredible - I can now cycle for miles without an ache or
> pain in the nether regions.

Pretty much so[1], but start by fiddling positions on your
existing saddle. Go out with an appropriate spanner and try
much experimentation with it, height, fore/aft and tilt too.
If none of that works try some more saddles. They can be
amazingly different: the Specialized BG may well be designed
with CAD and detailed knowledge of anatomy but acquaintance
with one suggests it was very much somebody else's anatomy
rather than mine. Most uncomfortable, but other people
really like them, and there's no way to tell without sitting
on them. By all means audition a BG but don't rely on sales
blurb to accurately predict the shape of your own backside!
I personally like Brooks leather saddles, and like BGs many
love them and others consider them torture. Sit on first to
be most sure.

> Are you wearing jeans to cycle in? If so, stop wearing
> them *immediately*. The raised seams on jeans are not made
> for comfort when cycling.

Yes, but jeans will cause chafing rather than numbness. If
one is comfy enough in jeans (I think they're ghastly and
don't own any, but I'm in a clear minority) with no chafing
then I wouldn't especially worry in the context of this
particular problem.

Pete.

[1] but for real Joy Of Cycling, remove the saddle from the
equation entirely and cycle a recumbent with a big comfy
chair! (quite an expensive option though...)

--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[David Martin]

On 2/4/04 11:42 am, in article 406D437D.9040203@dundee.ac.uk, "Peter Clinch"
<p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:

> dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers wrote:

>
>> A comfortable saddle is a very individual thing and a
>> comfortable saddle is essential to The Joy Of Cycling. It
>> may be that your current saddle is not for you no matter
>> how much you adjust it. For example, on my everday bike,
>> the saddle that was on it caused me *agony*. Changed it
>> to a Terry's Liberator TiLite and the difference was
>> incredible - I can now cycle for miles without an ache or
>> pain in the nether regions.
>
> Pretty much so[1], but start by fiddling positions on your
> existing saddle. Go out with an appropriate spanner and
> try much experimentation with it, height, fore/aft and
> tilt too. If none of that works try some more saddles.
> They can be amazingly different: the Specialized BG may
> well be designed with CAD and detailed knowledge of
> anatomy but acquaintance with one suggests it was very
> much somebody else's anatomy rather than mine. Most
> uncomfortable, but other people really like them, and
> there's no way to tell without sitting on them. By all
> means audition a BG but don't rely on sales blurb to
> accurately predict the shape of your own backside! I
> personally like Brooks leather saddles, and like BGs many
> love them and others consider them torture. Sit on first
> to be most sure.

I have a BG saddle on the road bike (on which I do
longish trips (in terms of time). My other saddle was
getting painful at about the three hour mark.. I find the
BG much better.

As Pete says, what is right for some, is not right for
others. In general though the 'comfort' saddles with lots of
padding are fine for a short trip but work by spreading the
pressure over a large area. Real comfort comes from having a
saddle that will focus the pressure ont eh bits on which you
should have pressure (ischial tuberosities ?) and not on the
squidgy bits. This does take some getting used to and
normally requires a firmer saddle, but works wonderfully.

Obviously saddle fit is different from person to person.

..d

[Peter Clinch]

McBain_v1 wrote:

> Speaking personally I would not advocate altering the
> saddle position so the 'nose' of the saddle is pointing
> downward. I always try and ensure that my saddle is
> parallel with the ground.

But unfortunately personally for McBain_v1 isn't necessarily
much use personally to Fat Lad. Different physiologies work
differently with different setups.

> I am thinking of going for the SaddleCo Flow saddle which
> gets some good write ups (click
> http://www.saddleco.comhere (http://www.saddleco.comhere/)) and seems a neat idea - sort
> of like a hammock for your **** :D

They say: "Flow's patent-pending design involves
encapsulation molding a nylon thermoplastic perimeter around
an elastomeric monofilament textile, and then stretching
this onto an insert-molded frame to create a suspended
seating surface. It's even harder to do than to say, which
is why no one's done it before."

I observe: Brooks saddles have used leather stretched over
and suspended from a metal frame for over 100 years, so the
idea of a suspended seat isn't exactly a new concept!
Brooks are very, very popular amongst cyclists despite
their weight and unsporty image, and that's because that if
the basic fit is right for you they're as comfortable as
you're likely to get. And if they're not the right basic
shape, they'll be horrible. I can't see the same wouldn't
go for a SaddleCo Flow (though I imagine it'll be lighter
and cost a packet more).

As with all saddles, try before you buy. And if you really
want comfort then get a recumbent.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Fat Lad]

Great,

I should really have known - nothing is straight forward!

I will experiment with the positioning over the wekend and see if I can get a significant improvement with the existing saddle before I start trying other models.

Do you think the seat height would have had an effect when I adjusted it and if so should I think of raising the handlebars to compensate or will this just complicate matters? I am not sure how/if I can raise them anyway - just wondering.

thanks for the help.
:p

[Peter Clinch]

Fat Lad wrote:
>
> Do you think the seat height would have had an effect when
> I adjusted it

It might have done, especially if you're in more of a
crouch now.

> and if so should I think of raising the handlebars to
> compensate or will this just complicate matters? I am not
> sure how/if I can raise them anyway - just wondering.

Depends what sort of headset you have how you'd go about
doing this. A quick bit of googling brings me:
http://www.utahmountainbiking.com/fix/hndlebar.htm which may
give you some idea.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext.
33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177
Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Nick Kew]

In article <lmabc.4894$F%5.2235@fe29.usenetserver.com>,
Fat Lad <usenet-forum@cyclingforums.com> writes:
> Hello!
>
> I get numbness after about 30 minutes. I don't know if it
> is my saddle or riding position, or the saddle itself.

Have you tried riding in different pants? Might make all the
difference.

Next step up on the scale of complexity is to try another
saddle. Then riding position - different bars.

--
Nick Kew

Nick's manifesto: http://www.htmlhelp.com/~nick/

[Eugenio Mastrov]

On Fri, 02 Apr 2004 11:42:05 +0100, Peter Clinch wrote:

> more saddles. They can be amazingly different: the
> Specialized BG may well be designed with CAD and detailed
> knowledge of anatomy but acquaintance with one suggests it
> was very much somebody else's anatomy rather than mine.
> Most uncomfortable, but other people really like

From my (and a few other acquaintances') personal
experience, looks like BG saddles are only *really*
comfortable if you're skinny bordering on pathological
(which I am) - I love them, my sister (who kept being
referred to psychologists as a teenager because all doctors
thought she was anorexic) loves them, my wife, who is far
more comfortably padded, describes them as the worst
experience her nether regions have ever had.

Who can argue with this kind of hard statistical data? :)

Eugenio

[David Martin]

On 2/4/04 3:34 pm, in article
pan.2004.04.02.14.34.12.295097@gointernet.co.uk, "Eugenio Mastroviti"
<eugeniom@gointernet.co.uk> wrote:

> From my (and a few other acquaintances') personal
> experience, looks like BG saddles are only *really*
> comfortable if you're skinny bordering on pathological
> (which I am) - I love them, my sister (who kept being
> referred to psychologists as a teenager because all
> doctors thought she was anorexic) loves them, my wife, who
> is far more comfortably padded, describes them as the
> worst experience her nether regions have ever had.
>
> Who can argue with this kind of hard statistical data? :)

I can. I am somewhat amply proportioned and like mine..

..d

* BMI just dropped off the horrendously obese, now
just obese..

[David Martin]

On 2/4/04 7:05 pm, in article
d0l0k1-mup.ln1@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk, "Simon Brooke"
<simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:

> in message <BC933CC0.11311%d.m.a.martin@dundee.ac.uk>,
> David Martin ('d.m.a.martin@dundee.ac.uk') wrote:

>> I can. I am somewhat amply proportioned and like
>> mine..
>
> Yes, but the issue isn't how much extra weight your
> carrying, it's how wide your pelvis is, and this doesn't
> change as you put on or take off weight.

The general description would be stocky. Fairly wide
across the beam.

..d

[Iain Jones]

Simon Brooke <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote in news:fok0k1-
mup.ln1@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk:

> This is your problem. Padded saddles are only any good for
> very short journeys. For anything longer, the harder the
> better. The issue is that with a hard saddle your weight
> is taken on your bones, and they don't sink into the
> saddle so no weight is taken anywhere else. With a soft
> saddle your bones do sink into it, so some of the weight
> is taken on softer parts of your anatomy which are
> sonewhat more tender.

That's what I've come to decide since getting my new bike.
My old bike had a fairly tough saddle, and I had trouble
with it but only because I wore jeans most of the time and
got bad chafing. Now with padded cycling shorts (longs for
the winter, can't wait to get back to shorts) there's no
chafing, but the padding is far softer on the new saddle and
I get much more soreness from the pressure.

I'm not a fan of cut-outs after this as well - they might
relieve pressure in the middle, but surely that pressure
has to go somewhere else - to the sides, that's where I
get trouble.

[Davek]

>I personally like Brooks leather saddles, and like BGs many
>love them and others consider them torture. Sit on first to
>be most sure.

I love my Brooks saddle - a B17. It's hard as granite yet
somehow also very comfortable indeed. I tried out a new bike
last week that was fitted with a deeply foam-padded Selle
Italia saddle and I found it unbearably soft and, within
minutes, unbearably uncomfortable too.

d.

[Velvet]

David Martin wrote:

> On 2/4/04 7:05 pm, in article d0l0k1-
> mup.ln1@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk, "Simon Brooke"
> <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>in message <BC933CC0.11311%d.m.a.martin@dundee.ac.uk>,
>>David Martin ('d.m.a.martin@dundee.ac.uk') wrote:
>
>
>>>I can. I am somewhat amply proportioned and like
>>>mine..
>>
>>Yes, but the issue isn't how much extra weight your
>>carrying, it's how wide your pelvis is, and this doesn't
>>change as you put on or take off weight.
>
>
> The general description would be stocky. Fairly wide
> across the beam.
>
> ..d
>

Which could be applied to me, but under my ample padding
sits a really quite narrow pelvis (I'm a girl, and bloke's
racing saddles don't fit - but only by a centimetre!) I
spent a long time looking for a saddle that was wider than a
blokes, yet still narrow - very hard to find, the BG ones
were all too wide for me. Selle italia Oktavia (ldy?) did
the trick perfectly. Narrow, not too padded, and a shorter
nose. No hole in it (none needed).

You need to work out what your skeletal frame is like, and
try and measure between your sit bones (impossible unless
like me you know they're a centimetre wider than the current
saddle by virtue of the fact one is supported the other is
just hanging off the side - or you have a VERY good friend
you don't mind poking and prodding around and wielding a
ruler LOL)

Velvet

[Terry]

> I love my Brooks saddle - a B17. It's hard as granite yet
> somehow also very

I just want to add my vote for Terry Liberator design as an
instant cure for the specified problem, and comfortable for
hundreds of miles on tour provided you are protected by good
padded pants. I also like brooks but have still had urethral
soreness after a lot of miles on mine, which does not happen
with the Terry(mine's a copy). TerryJ

[Fat Lad]

Chaps & Chappettes!

Thanks. After extensive testing I have got the saddle at the best height & angle I can. Still numbing out but not too badly and the best piece of advice was to get up on your toes for a few revolutions when the sensation first starts.
I am due to whizz off to the LBS for a service soon and I will look at getting a harder saddle. The 'comfort' saddle I have obviously isn't. So going down the hard route seems an idea, I'll try but I doubt I will be able to do extensive testing before buying so I'm going to see what is available and take a risk.
I'm also thinking of ditching the bouncy seatpost aswell. I have played around with it but am yet to feel any benefit over rough ground so I think it may just be compunding the problem.

Stand by for future updates

[Velvet]

Fat Lad wrote:

> Chaps & Chappettes!
>
> Thanks. After extensive testing I have got the saddle at
> the best height & angle I can. Still numbing out but not
> too badly and the best piece of advice was to get up on
> your toes for a few revolutions when the sensation first
> starts. I am due to whizz off to the LBS for a service
> soon and I will look at getting a harder saddle. The
> 'comfort' saddle I have obviously isn't. So going down the
> hard route seems an idea, I'll try but I doubt I will be
> able to do extensive testing before buying so I'm going to
> see what is available and take a risk. I'm also thinking
> of ditching the bouncy seatpost aswell. I have played
> around with it but am yet to feel any benefit over rough
> ground so I think it may just be compunding the problem.
>
> Stand by for future updates
>
>
>
> --
>
>

Have a look at gearshift.co.uk (you may have to phone
them)... I think they offer a 'box of saddles' that they'll
ship to you, for a deposit+small fee, you try them, ship
them back, and I *think* you get a discount/fee refunded if
you then buy a saddle from them.

Think they're affiliated with the CTC, others may know for
sure if I've got the right people.

--

Velvet