Is it a 3 ring or 2 ring f/mech?
View Full Version : Is it a 3 ring or 2 ring f/mech?
My bike has a two front chain rings, but I think it has a 3
ring shifter. It's a Tiagra band on derailleur with 3
positions (clicks) when shifting from small to large ring, I
have to use the 1st or last position. It seems that the
manufacturer or assembler has saved money by buying bulk on
one derailleur rather than two. I'm aware that recent front
selection includes a feature that allows micro adjustment
for the offset caused by the current sprocket at the back. I
don't think mine is that recent. Does this add up? If so I
think I'll get a 2 ring one.
--
Mike W
"VisionSet" <spam@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:<Dyjbc.153$MQ2.85@newsfe2-gui.server.ntli.net>...
> My bike has a two front chain rings, but I think it has a
> 3 ring shifter. It's a Tiagra band on derailleur with 3
> positions (clicks) when shifting from small to large ring,
> I have to use the 1st or last position. It seems that the
> manufacturer or assembler has saved money by buying bulk
> on one derailleur rather than two. I'm aware that recent
> front selection includes a feature that allows micro
> adjustment for the offset caused by the current sprocket
> at the back. I don't think mine is that recent. Does this
> add up? If so I think I'll get a 2 ring one.
AIUI a three position Shimano one has just that, whereas a
double one is a ratchet with several clicks up and just one
down. If you release the front lever does the changer go
right back to the lowest position in one go? if so it is a
ratchet (like my rx100), which does allow micro adjustment.
My other bike was sold as a double but with a triple
(rsx)changer so that is possible on yours, especially if
they also made the bike with a triple, they would have used
the same changer. Shimano's website has exploded diagrams,
and you may be able to see which exact part number yours is.
hope this helps
MartinM wrote:
> AIUI a three position Shimano one has just that, whereas a
> double one is a ratchet with several clicks up and just
> one down. If you release the front lever does the changer
> go right back to the lowest position in one go? if so it
> is a ratchet (like my rx100), which does allow micro
> adjustment. My other bike was sold as a double but with a
> triple (rsx)changer so that is possible on yours,
> especially if they also made the bike with a triple, they
> would have used the same changer. Shimano's website has
> exploded diagrams, and you may be able to see which exact
> part number yours is. hope this helps
Surely the indexing is in the lever not the mech. I have a
105 triple front mech that has infinite positions, it is
being used with a friction lever and thus has no such
ratchet or number of positions.
Triple front mechs tend to have a back plate that is stepped
where as doubles don't. The back plate is usually larger to
push the chain fron the smaller ring.
"MSeries" <skankmartin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c4lreg$2jkudi$1@ID-207671.news.uni-berlin.de...
> MartinM wrote:
> Surely the indexing is in the lever not the mech.
Correct.
> Triple front mechs tend to have a back plate that is
> stepped where as doubles don't. The back plate is usually
> larger to push the chain fron the smaller ring.
Also correct. If in doubt, the code (FD-????) will be
stamped onto the back of the inner plate - if you quote
this, we'll be able to tell you which you've got.
Also check the STI lever. From what I can remember, the
code doesn't help much here, because the same lever body
is used for double and triple. I may have a defectice
memory, though, so check anyway! The triple levers
normally have an adhesive label cunningly labelled
"triple", although I suppose anyone fitting one to a
double setup might remove this. Personally, I think it's
unlikely that a large manufacturer would fit all triple
units, because they're more expensive (and won't work
satisfactorily on a double setup).
Simon
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"Simon Daw" <simondaw@NOSPAMmsn.com> wrote in message
news:c4m31u$dhp$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "MSeries" <skankmartin@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:c4lreg$2jkudi$1@ID-207671.news.uni-
> berlin.de...
> > MartinM wrote:
>
> > Surely the indexing is in the lever not the mech.
>
> Correct.
>
> > Triple front mechs tend to have a back plate that is
> > stepped where as doubles don't. The back plate is
> > usually larger to push the chain fron
the
> > smaller ring.
>
> Also correct. If in doubt, the code (FD-????) will be
> stamped onto the
back
> of the inner plate - if you quote this, we'll be able to
> tell you which you've got.
>
> Also check the STI lever. From what I can remember, the
> code doesn't help much here, because the same lever body
> is used for double and triple. I
may
> have a defectice memory, though, so check anyway! The
> triple levers
normally
> have an adhesive label cunningly labelled "triple",
> although I suppose anyone fitting one to a double setup
> might remove this. Personally, I
think
> it's unlikely that a large manufacturer would fit all
> triple units,
because
> they're more expensive (and won't work satisfactorily on a
> double setup).
>
FD-4400 is stamped on the derailleur. There are 3 positions,
that ratchet to the larger ring, and on release returns all
the way back. The derailleur isn't stepped on the back
plate. I never use the middle position and it certainly
isn't the kind of micro adjustment I've seen on very recent
machines. I'll look on the Shimano site too.
--
Mike W
VisionSet wrote:
> My bike has a two front chain rings, but I think it has a
> 3 ring shifter. It's a Tiagra band on derailleur with 3
> positions (clicks) when shifting from small to large ring,
> I have to use the 1st or last position.
There's confusion here because I think you're using the word
"shifter" to mean derailleur, and the clicks aren't in the
derailleur. "Shifters" normally means the gear levers - and
these do the clicking.
> It seems that the manufacturer or assembler has saved
> money by buying bulk on one derailleur rather than two.
> I'm aware that recent front selection includes a feature
> that allows micro adjustment for the offset caused by
> the current sprocket at the back. I don't think mine is
> that recent.
It probably is then.
> Does this add up? If so I think I'll get a 2 ring one.
The FD-4400 front derailleur that you have is a 2 ring
(double) job.
See: http://tinyurl.com/2mpwg
~PB
"Pete Biggs" <pclemantine{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message
news:c4n6lv$2jhn04$1@ID-144931.news.uni-berlin.de...
> VisionSet wrote:
> > My bike has a two front chain rings, but I think it has
> > a 3 ring shifter. It's a Tiagra band on derailleur with
> > 3 positions (clicks) when shifting from small to large
> > ring, I have to use the 1st or last position.
>
> There's confusion here because I think you're using the
> word "shifter" to mean derailleur, and the clicks aren't
> in the derailleur. "Shifters" normally means the gear
> levers - and these do the clicking.
>
> > It seems that the manufacturer or assembler has saved
> > money by buying bulk on one derailleur rather than two.
> > I'm aware that recent front selection includes a feature
> > that allows micro adjustment for the offset caused by
> > the current sprocket at the back. I don't think mine is
> > that recent.
>
> It probably is then.
>
> > Does this add up? If so I think I'll get a 2 ring one.
>
> The FD-4400 front derailleur that you have is a 2 ring
> (double) job.
>
And I see the Tiagra lever is (as all Shimano are) one lever
for both double & triple set ups. So it is a double at both
ends of the cable. Just doesn't seem quite right. To be
honest I was a little disappointed with the new fangled
brake lever integrated shifters. My previous bike is a 15
year old 5 speed raleigh, and the shifting is so fast with
the down tube position. I suppose it is the less than
perfect geometry of the hand in relation to the lever (and I
have big hands). Still overall it is an improvement, I'm not
whinging, just want to make sure it's as it should be. The
cassette shifting is fine!
--
Mike W
"VisionSet" <spam@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:<E4xbc.1243$%K1.1180@newsfe2-gui.server.ntli.net>...
> "Simon Daw" <simondaw@NOSPAMmsn.com> wrote in message
> news:c4m31u$dhp$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
> >
> > "MSeries" <skankmartin@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:c4lreg$2jkudi$1@ID-207671.news.uni-
> > berlin.de...
> > > MartinM wrote:
>
> > > Surely the indexing is in the lever not the mech.
> >
> > Correct.
> >
> > > Triple front mechs tend to have a back plate that is
> > > stepped where as doubles don't. The back plate is
> > > usually larger to push the chain fron
> the
> > > smaller ring.
> >
> > Also correct. If in doubt, the code (FD-????) will be
> > stamped onto the
> back
> > of the inner plate - if you quote this, we'll be able to
> > tell you which you've got.
> >
> > Also check the STI lever. From what I can remember, the
> > code doesn't help much here, because the same lever body
> > is used for double and triple. I
> may
> > have a defectice memory, though, so check anyway! The
> > triple levers
> normally
> > have an adhesive label cunningly labelled "triple",
> > although I suppose anyone fitting one to a double setup
> > might remove this. Personally, I
> think
> > it's unlikely that a large manufacturer would fit all
> > triple units,
> because
> > they're more expensive (and won't work satisfactorily on
> > a double setup).
> >
>
> FD-4400 is stamped on the derailleur. There are 3
> positions, that ratchet to the larger ring, and on release
> returns all the way back.
In which case you will not be able use a triple effectively
as you can only change 1-2-3-1-2 if you see what I mean. Yes
the indexing is in the STI shifter, and triple changers have
a much wider inner plate to the derailleur to pick up the
chain off the little ring. BTW I finally went over to a
triple for Audax a few weeks ago , much better.
"VisionSet" <spam@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:PvFbc.2032$%K1.1603@newsfe2-gui.server.ntli.net...
>
>
> And I see the Tiagra lever is (as all Shimano are) one
> lever for both
double
> & triple set ups.
So if this is the case and from the Shimano site, it is.
And if most of the clever stuff is done by the lever -
makes sense. How does a 3 ring shift 1-2-3-2-1 as opposed
to 1-2-3-1-2-3
--
Mike W
"VisionSet" <spam@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:<HEQbc.165$7z.51@newsfe2-gui.server.ntli.net>...
> "VisionSet" <spam@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:PvFbc.2032$%K1.1603@newsfe2-
> gui.server.ntli.net...
> >
> >
> > And I see the Tiagra lever is (as all Shimano are) one
> > lever for both
> double
> > & triple set ups.
No they definitely sell different shifters for double and
triple according to most of the suppliers. Triple will
work double but you don't get the fine feather
adjustment; but IMBW.
> So if this is the case and from the Shimano site, it is.
> And if most of the clever stuff is done by the lever -
> makes sense. How does a 3 ring shift 1-2-3-2-1 as opposed
> to 1-2-3-1-2-3
If it is a rathchet it will go from 3 to 1 and not stop at
2. Easiest way may be to take the cable of the mech and try
it, if it is a true 3 pos shifter it will click on all 3
positions on the way up and down.
"MartinM" <Martinm2@wcms.org.uk> wrote in message
news:3cf5c6dc.0404051306.5fc2ba9a@posting.google.com...
> "VisionSet" <spam@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:<HEQbc.165$7z.51@newsfe2-gui.server.ntli.net>...
> > "VisionSet" <spam@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:PvFbc.2032$%K1.1603@newsfe2-
> > gui.server.ntli.net...
> > >
> > >
> > > And I see the Tiagra lever is (as all Shimano are) one
> > > lever for both
> > double
> > > & triple set ups.
>
> No they definitely sell different shifters for double and
> triple according to most of the suppliers. Triple will
> work double but you don't get the fine feather adjustment;
> but IMBW.
>
> > So if this is the case and from the Shimano site, it is.
> > And if most of the clever stuff is done by the lever -
> > makes sense. How does a 3 ring shift 1-2-3-2-1 as
> > opposed to 1-2-3-1-2-3
>
> If it is a rathchet it will go from 3 to 1 and not stop at
> 2. Easiest way may be to take the cable of the mech and
> try it, if it is a true 3 pos shifter it will click on all
> 3 positions on the way up and down.
mmm, okay I'll try that.
--
Mike W.
MartinM wrote:
> "VisionSet" <spam@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:<HEQbc.165$7z.51@newsfe2-
> gui.server.ntli.net>...
>
>>"VisionSet" <spam@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:PvFbc.2032$%K1.1603@newsfe2-
>>gui.server.ntli.net...
>>
>>>
>>>And I see the Tiagra lever is (as all Shimano are) one
>>>lever for both
>>
>> double
>>
>>>& triple set ups.
>
>
> No they definitely sell different shifters for double and
> triple according to most of the suppliers. Triple will
> work double but you don't get the fine feather adjustment;
> but IMBW.
>
>
>>So if this is the case and from the Shimano site, it is.
>>And if most of the clever stuff is done by the lever -
>>makes sense. How does a 3 ring shift 1-2-3-2-1 as opposed
>>to 1-2-3-1-2-3
>
>
> If it is a rathchet it will go from 3 to 1 and not stop at
> 2. Easiest way may be to take the cable of the mech and
> try it, if it is a true 3 pos shifter it will click on all
> 3 positions on the way up and down.
I have a triple tiagra shifter (and gubbins) - what's this
about fine feather adjustment? is this a feature of the
triple tiagra, if so, what's it used for, and how do you use
it? I've felt something odd between granny ring and middle
sometimes, and have had problems with the smallest gear on
the rear leading to the chain skipping off the middle
chainring sometimes (I *think* that's what happens, but
can't look down to see for sure) - and it feels like there's
second position somewhere between selecting granny and
middle on the shifter ratchet bits.
Velvet
Velvet wrote:
> I have a triple tiagra shifter (and gubbins) - what's
> this about fine feather adjustment? is this a feature of
> the triple tiagra, if so, what's it used for, and how do
> you use it?
I can't remember specifically about the Tiagra STI but the
idea of a "trim" feature is to allow you to move the front
derailleur a bit without actually changing gear. Some
versions of Shimano gear levers have this. It can help when
the chain rubs against the cage in certain gears, which you
will *hear* this if/when it happens.
> I've felt something odd between granny ring and middle
> sometimes, and have had problems with the smallest gear on
> the rear leading to the chain skipping off the middle
> chainring sometimes
The cable tension and/or front derailleur probably needs
adjusting. See http://www.sheldonbrown.com/derailer-
adjustment.html Also, keep pedalling smoothly but gently
during gear change.
> (I *think* that's what happens, but can't look down to see
> for sure)
I promise you won't crash if you have a quick glance! :-)
~PB
Pete Biggs wrote:
> Velvet wrote:
>
>
>>I have a triple tiagra shifter (and gubbins) - what's
>>this about fine feather adjustment? is this a feature of
>>the triple tiagra, if so, what's it used for, and how do
>>you use it?
>
>
> I can't remember specifically about the Tiagra STI but the
> idea of a "trim" feature is to allow you to move the front
> derailleur a bit without actually changing gear. Some
> versions of Shimano gear levers have this. It can help
> when the chain rubs against the cage in certain gears,
> which you will *hear* this if/when it happens.
>
>
>>I've felt something odd between granny ring and middle
>>sometimes, and have had problems with the smallest gear on
>>the rear leading to the chain skipping off the middle
>>chainring sometimes
>
>
> The cable tension and/or front derailleur probably needs
> adjusting. See http://www.sheldonbrown.com/derailer-
> adjustment.html Also, keep pedalling smoothly but gently
> during gear change.
>
>
>>(I *think* that's what happens, but can't look down to see
>>for sure)
>
>
> I promise you won't crash if you have a quick glance! :-)
>
> ~PB
>
>
Heh! I believe you, but it's more a case that by the time
I've worked out it's safe to look down, the chain's hopped
back to where it's supposed to be. I did have a quick
twiddle with the adjustment, which improved things, I just
wondered if maybe it's that trim on the sti levers causing
it to hop off in the first place. Or maybe that's why the
adjusting doesn't seem to be easy to get right - I'll have
to have a fiddle armed with the idea the extra little step
on the shifter is a trim thing, and see if it improves the
adjusting process!
Ta for the help.
Velvet
Velvet <velvet@not.a.valid.domain> wrote in message news:<5evcc.3920$XN6.37902405@news-text.cableinet.net>...
> MartinM wrote:
> > "VisionSet" <spam@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:<HEQbc.165$7z.51@newsfe2-
> > gui.server.ntli.net>...
> >
> >>"VisionSet" <spam@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:PvFbc.2032$%K1.1603@newsfe2-
> >>gui.server.ntli.net...
> >>
> >>>
> >>>And I see the Tiagra lever is (as all Shimano are) one
> >>>lever for both
> >>
> >> double
> >>
> >>>& triple set ups.
> >
> >
> > No they definitely sell different shifters for double
> > and triple according to most of the suppliers. Triple
> > will work double but you don't get the fine feather
> > adjustment; but IMBW.
> >
> >
> >>So if this is the case and from the Shimano site, it is.
> >>And if most of the clever stuff is done by the lever -
> >>makes sense. How does a 3 ring shift 1-2-3-2-1 as
> >>opposed to 1-2-3-1-2-3
> >
> >
> > If it is a rathchet it will go from 3 to 1 and not stop
> > at 2. Easiest way may be to take the cable of the mech
> > and try it, if it is a true 3 pos shifter it will click
> > on all 3 positions on the way up and down.
>
> I have a triple tiagra shifter (and gubbins) - what's this
> about fine feather adjustment?
That is what my RX100 (which Tiagra replaced) does, there
are about 4 positions but it only has one on the wal down so
makes me think it is a ratchet. is this a feature of the
triple tiagra, if so,
> what's it used for, and how do you use it? I've felt
> something odd between granny ring and middle sometimes,
> and have had problems with the smallest gear on the rear
> leading to the chain skipping off the middle chainring
> sometimes
That may not be a STI problem, could be all manner of
causes; dishing of wheel, Too wide BB axle,(both unlikely)
or could be that the cable needs tightening, the STI units
just shift between rings but the cable is the fine
adjustment, as well as the limit screws for top and bottom
on the front mech ; which is what will stop the chain
falling off the small ring.
Sorry can't be any more help, gears work well when they work
but not when they don't seems to be the rule.
(I *think* that's what happens, but can't look down
> to see for sure) - and it feels like there's second
> position somewhere between selecting granny and middle on
> the shifter ratchet bits.
>
> Velvet
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