Monitoring morning HR

[Per ElmsäTer]

Since I've added more and more workouts to each weekly
schedule, I've come to the point where I feel the need to
start monitoring my morning HR. To avoid overtraining and to
detect infections. Due to the fact that I haven't done this
before I figure I need to build a baseline first so I'll
know what is normal and what is high. I put my HRM on one to
two hours before I get up every morning and go back to
sleep. What happens is that I get such a big range of HR I
don't really know which ones to use. My minimum HR can be
anywhere from 40 to 55 depending on whether the day before
was a rest day or a hard workout. The average HR will vary
the same but 8 to 10 beats higher. How do I use all this
information in a practical way? I realize that a high
resting HR means I should not do any quality workouts that
day and this is not really my question. It is more like how
to deal with all the information I get from a HRM. Let's say
my HRmin one morning is
42. Well this was recorded over two hours of sleep and only
happened once. If I look at random ten minute segments
over those two hours of sleep, my HRmin will maybe vary
between 42 and 50. According to what I heard a 6-8 beat
rise of HRmin in the morning means you are overtrained
or have an infection. How on earth can anybody say
something like that considering how much the HR varies.
Imagine before the HRMs came. You counted for 15 seconds
multiplied by 4 and decided what your HR was and got up.
Upon this information top athletes planned their
training day! Or did they?

How do those of you that monitor your morning HR
handle this?

--
Perre "Confused"

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

[Ewoud Dronkert]

On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 09:46:50 GMT, Per Elmsäter wrote:
> My minimum HR can be anywhere from 40 to 55 depending on
> whether the day before was a rest day or a hard workout.

Really? Well that's enough info then isn't it? You must
remember though that (ime) just turning over may lead to
your HR going +10 or more.

[Per ElmsäTer]

Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
> On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 09:46:50 GMT, Per Elmsäter wrote:
>> My minimum HR can be anywhere from 40 to 55 depending on
>> whether the day before was a rest day or a hard workout.
>
> Really? Well that's enough info then isn't it? You must
> remember though that (ime) just turning over may lead to
> your HR going +10 or more.

If it was only that simple but if you look at another part
that I wrote

"If I look at random ten minute segments over those two
hours of sleep, my HRmin will maybe vary between 42 and 50"

Right now I'm recording two hours but in the future I doubt
I will. More likely just glance at a couple of minutes of
HR before I get up. Now depending on which part of the
sleeping cycle I glance at my HR will vary wildly. As you
say just turning my head may up it 10 beats. So how can I
use this information to decide whether I can do a quality
workout or not this day. In theory it sounds all simple
enough but once I try to apply this theory to reality it
isn't so simple anymore.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

[Ewoud Dronkert]

On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 11:45:28 GMT, Per Elmsäter wrote:
> So how can I use this information to decide

Don't worry too much about all the fluctuations and the
exact number. Important is to always use the same procedure
that will give YOU consistent results. It could be as simple
as grabbing a watch when you wake up, lay still for a few
minutes, and counting heart beats for another minute. Then
when you get a feeling of what the numbers mean, you can act
accordingly. It's no exact science (or rather, it's
different for every individual).

[Andy Birko]

"Per Elmsäter" <perDOTelmsater@telia.com> wrote in message
news:stxbc.88462$dP1.261168@newsc.telia.net...
> Ewoud Dronkert wrote:

>
> Right now I'm recording two hours but in the future I
> doubt I will. More likely just glance at a couple of
> minutes of HR before I get up. Now depending on which
> part of the sleeping cycle I glance at my HR will vary
> wildly. As you say just turning my head may up it 10
> beats. So how can I
use
> this information to decide whether I can do a quality
> workout or not this day. In theory it sounds all simple
> enough but once I try to apply this theory to reality it
> isn't so simple anymore.

Perhaps you've discovered that resting HR is not a good
indicator of recovery levels or state of training and your
efforts would be better spent looking for some other method
of determining state of recovery.

-Andy B.

[Per ElmsäTer]

Andy Birko wrote:
> "Per Elmsäter" <perDOTelmsater@telia.com> wrote in message
> news:stxbc.88462$dP1.261168@newsc.telia.net...
>> Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
>
>>
>> Right now I'm recording two hours but in the future I
>> doubt I will. More likely just glance at a couple of
>> minutes of HR before I get up. Now depending on which
>> part of the sleeping cycle I glance at my HR will vary
>> wildly. As you say just turning my head may up it 10
>> beats. So how can I use this information to decide
>> whether I can do a quality workout or not this day. In
>> theory it sounds all simple enough but once I try to
>> apply this theory to reality it isn't so simple anymore.
>
> Perhaps you've discovered that resting HR is not a good
> indicator of recovery levels or state of training and your
> efforts would be better spent looking for some other
> method of determining state of recovery.
>
> -Andy B.

Hehe.... Yes I'm starting to think that I should trust TSS
entirely ;) At least for calculating recovery. infections
will be harder. Maybe I have to measure how many ml of drip
from my nose there is in 60 seconds ;((

For those wondering. TSS ( Training Stress Score) is a value
calculated out of the training intensity and duration. It is
based on Wattage and a Power meter of any kind can be used.
The CyclingPeagks Software does this calculation and the
father of the concept is Andy Coggan.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

[John Everett]

On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 09:46:50 GMT, "Per Elmsäter"
<perDOTelmsater@telia.com> wrote:

>How do those of you that monitor your morning HR
>handle this?

Perhaps I'm a bit of a retro-grouch, but I'm still using the
"15 seconds times 4" method. I usually get 44bpm or 48bpm,
but I don't get concerned if it's 52. I start worrying at 56
and above. That's precision enough for me. :-)

jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net
http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

[Trg]

I get up in the morning, put on the strap, lie back down,
wait a minute or two and do a check. it's pretty consistant
from day to day (In my case, one too many beers the night
before is more likely to have an influence than
overtraining;) ). Two hour monitoring, especially during
sleep cycles is too variable.

Per Elmsäter wrote:
> Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
>> On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 09:46:50 GMT, Per Elmsäter wrote:
>>> My minimum HR can be anywhere from 40 to 55 depending on
>>> whether the day before was a rest day or a hard workout.
>>
>> Really? Well that's enough info then isn't it? You must
>> remember though that (ime) just turning over may lead to
>> your HR going +10 or more.
>
> If it was only that simple but if you look at another part
> that I wrote
>
> "If I look at random ten minute segments over those
> two hours of sleep, my HRmin will maybe vary between
> 42 and 50"
>
> Right now I'm recording two hours but in the future I
> doubt I will. More likely just glance at a couple of
> minutes of HR before I get up. Now depending on which part
> of the sleeping cycle I glance at my HR will vary wildly.
> As you say just turning my head may up it 10 beats. So how
> can I use this information to decide whether I can do a
> quality workout or not this day. In theory it sounds all
> simple enough but once I try to apply this theory to
> reality it isn't so simple anymore.

[Jeff Jones]

"Per Elmsäter" <perDOTelmsater@telia.com> wrote in message
news:rfAbc.88477$dP1.261210@newsc.telia.net...
>
> Hehe.... Yes I'm starting to think that I should trust TSS
> entirely ;) At least for calculating recovery. infections
> will be harder. Maybe I have to measure how many ml of
> drip from my nose there is in 60 seconds ;((
>
> For those wondering. TSS ( Training Stress Score) is a
> value calculated
out
> of the training intensity and duration. It is based on
> Wattage and a Power meter of any kind can be used. The
> CyclingPeagks Software does this calculation and the
> father of the concept is Andy Coggan.
>
I like numbers, and I have a HRM. I find it handy for
training, in the absence of a power meter, although it's not
as "spot on the mark".

But, I don't let my resting HR dictate my training. I use
the "if you feel tired on the bike, then either don't reduce
intensity/time or just go home" rule of thumb. I've had many
good training sessions when my HR was "elevated" by 10-15
beats in the morning, so I don't let it bother me. Actually
I don't even bother taking it any more, except maybe once
every couple of weeks.

Jeff

[Richard Longwoo]

One night, it was a cold and gloomy night, I fell asleep
wearing a heart rate monitor. Feeling a little
uncomfortabe, I curled up, in a stand of small bushes on
the divider strip, and slept OK, despite the traffic. I
dreamt I wasn't an asshole. Then I woke up. Beside me was a
doctorate in Placebo Theory which I must have earned while
unconscious. My heart rate was 65 beats per minute, I
popped a Cialis, went for a training ride, and had a boner
for 4 hours straight.

"Per Elmsäter" <perDOTelmsater@telia.com> wrote in message
news:eKvbc.88453$dP1.260985@newsc.telia.net...
> Since I've added more and more workouts to each weekly
> schedule, I've come to the point where I feel the need to
> start monitoring my morning HR. To avoid overtraining and
> to detect infections. Due to the fact that I haven't done
> this before I figure I need to build a baseline first so
> I'll know what is normal and what is high. I put my HRM on
> one to two hours before I get up every morning and go back
> to sleep. What happens is that I get such a big range of
> HR I don't really know which ones to use. My minimum HR
> can be anywhere from 40 to 55 depending on whether the day
> before was a rest day or a hard workout. The average HR
> will vary the same but 8 to 10 beats higher. How do I use
> all this information in a practical way? I realize that a
> high resting HR means I should not do any quality
workouts
> that day and this is not really my question. It is more
> like how to deal with all the information I get from a
> HRM. Let's say my HRmin one morning
is
> 42. Well this was recorded over two hours of sleep and
> only happened once. If I look at random ten minute
> segments over those two hours of sleep, my HRmin will
> maybe vary between 42 and 50. According to what I
> heard a 6-8 beat rise of HRmin in the morning means
> you are overtrained or have an infection. How on earth
> can anybody say something like that considering
how
> much the HR varies. Imagine before the HRMs came. You
> counted for 15
seconds
> multiplied by 4 and decided what your HR was and got up.
> Upon this information top athletes planned their training
> day! Or did they?
>
> How do those of you that monitor your morning HR
> handle this?
>
> --
> Perre "Confused"
>
> You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

[Per ElmsäTer]

John Everett wrote:
> On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 09:46:50 GMT, "Per Elmsäter"
> <perDOTelmsater@telia.com> wrote:
>
>> How do those of you that monitor your morning HR
>> handle this?
>
> Perhaps I'm a bit of a retro-grouch, but I'm still
> using the "15 seconds times 4" method. I usually get
> 44bpm or 48bpm, but I don't get concerned if it's 52. I
> start worrying at 56 and above. That's precision enough
> for me. :-)
>

For some reason whenever I do this my HR aligns with the
seconds hand on the clock and start beating once every
second. I always end up with a HR of 60 when I do it
this way ;)

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

[Per ElmsäTer]

trg wrote:
> I get up in the morning, put on the strap, lie back down,
> wait a minute or two and do a check. it's pretty
> consistant from day to day (In my case, one too many beers
> the night before is more likely to have an influence than
> overtraining;) ). Two hour monitoring, especially during
> sleep cycles is too variable.
>

Thanks. This is what I need to hear because that is prabably
what I'll do in the future. My two hour recording during
sleep is kind of just trying to build a baseline to make
observations from.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

[Per ElmsäTer]

Richard Longwood wrote:
> One night, it was a cold and gloomy night, I fell asleep
> wearing a heart rate monitor. Feeling a little
> uncomfortabe, I curled up, in a stand of small bushes on
> the divider strip, and slept OK, despite the traffic. I
> dreamt I wasn't an asshole. Then I woke up. Beside me was
> a doctorate in Placebo Theory which I must have earned
> while unconscious. My heart rate was 65 beats per minute,
> I popped a Cialis, went for a training ride, and had a
> boner for 4 hours straight.
>

No ****! I hope you had one of them split saddles to stick
your boner through.

--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.