curious what everyone's thoughts are for the 3-hour marathoner concerning the depletion phase leadin

[Steve Waco]

I was curious what everyone's thoughts are for the 3-hour
marathoner concerning the depletion phase leading up to the
marathon. I have actually heard about where you can run a
tough workout, 7 days before the marathon and deplete your
glycogen stores and go on a no carb or 30% carb diet for 3
days. Then the last 3 days or so before the marathon, have
only carbs. I'm curious, this theory has been around for a
long time, just wondered what you thought about that. What's
it like going 3 days without carbs after a hard run? What's
it like 3 days before the marathon, having only carbs and no
fats or proteins? I'm not sure if that's how strict it can
get or should be? Just curious if anybody tried that out and
to see what their thoughts are. I appreciate any input you
might have.

[Robert Grumbine]

In article <hYkcc.40$7P.100009@news.uswest.net>,
steve waco <steve@spokanediscount(nospam).com> wrote:
>I was curious what everyone's thoughts are for the 3-hour
>marathoner concerning the depletion phase leading up to the
>marathon. I have actually heard about where you can run a
>tough workout, 7 days before the marathon and deplete your
>glycogen stores and go on a no carb or 30% carb diet for 3
>days. Then the last 3 days or so before the marathon, have
>only carbs. I'm curious, this theory has been around for a
>long time, just wondered what you thought about that.
>What's it like going 3 days without carbs after a hard run?
>What's it like 3 days before the marathon, having only
>carbs and no fats or proteins? I'm not sure if that's how
>strict it can get or should be? Just curious if anybody
>tried that out and to see what their thoughts are. I
>appreciate any input you might have.

Noakes (3rd edition, maybe also 4th -- haven't finished my
copy of the 4th) indicates that a depletion phase is not
needed for carb loading.

For the carb loading phase, it is not a matter of having
_only_ carbs (in Noakes' listing, nor in any other I've
seen), rather, it is to take a basically decent diet
(split between the fat/protein/carb) and add in a
surplus of carbs.

Where did you hear about the plan you mentioned? As far
as I know from my, limited, reading, depletion phases
ceased to be supported by the early 1980's, and their
more or less common use was out by the early 90's. In a
sense, they never were supported. The original
experiments had coupled the surplus carbs of the last 24-
72 hours with a deficit before then, as compared to
steady normal eating. The later work found the deficit
(depletion) phase didn't help much, if at all, in
overloading your stockpiles of glycogen.

The pace of your marathon isn't especially important to
the preceding, as far as I know. You can load only so much
glcoygen, and marathon is long enough that you'll use a
pretty good fraction of whatever you store.

--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and
amateur activities notes and links. Sagredo (Galileo
Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less
appreciated than they would be had they been presented in a
more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

[Ozzie Gontang]

In article <hYkcc.40$7P.100009@news.uswest.net>, steve waco
<steve@spokanediscount(nospam).com> wrote:

> I was curious what everyone's thoughts are for the 3-hour
> marathoner concerning the depletion phase leading up to
> the marathon. I have actually heard about where you can
> run a tough workout, 7 days before the marathon and
> deplete your glycogen stores and go on a no carb or 30%
> carb diet for 3 days. Then the last 3 days or so before
> the marathon, have only carbs. I'm curious, this theory
> has been around for a long time, just wondered what you
> thought about that. What's it like going 3 days without
> carbs after a hard run? What's it like 3 days before the
> marathon, having only carbs and no fats or proteins? I'm
> not sure if that's how strict it can get or should be?
> Just curious if anybody tried that out and to see what
> their thoughts are. I appreciate any input you might have.

Listen to what Robert shared. Having done the process in the
late 70's, we learned that it wasn't necessary and often
more harmful than helpful.

Ozzie

[Sam]

"steve waco" <steve@spokanediscount(nospam).com> wrote in message
news:hYkcc.40$7P.100009@news.uswest.net...
> I was curious what everyone's thoughts are for the 3-hour
> marathoner concerning the depletion phase leading up to
> the marathon. I have actually heard about where you can
> run a tough workout, 7 days before the marathon and
> deplete your glycogen stores and go on a no carb or 30%
> carb diet
for
> 3 days. Then the last 3 days or so before the marathon,
> have only carbs.
I'm
> curious, this theory has been around for a long time, just
> wondered what
you
> thought about that. What's it like going 3 days without
> carbs after a hard run? What's it like 3 days before the
> marathon, having only carbs and no fats or proteins? I'm
> not sure if that's how strict it can get or should
be?
> Just curious if anybody tried that out and to see what
> their thoughts are.
I
> appreciate any input you might have.
>
>
Passe. Sherman showed that the depletion phase is not
necessary in the early 1980s as well. Tapering (reducing
volume) and eating a mixed diet and then increasing carb
intake the last few days avoided the problems with having to
do some hard run that close to a marathon.

Even one day of rest and consuming 10g of carbs per kg
body weight will "load" fine The following abstract is
free of charge

Eur J Appl Physiol. 2002 Jul;87(3):290-5. Epub 2002
May 28. Related Articles, Links

Carbohydrate loading in human muscle: an improved 1
day protocol.

Bussau VA, Fairchild TJ, Rao A, Steele P, Fournier PA.

Department of Human Movement and Exercise Science, The
University of Western Australia, Crawley, Western Australia,
Australia, 6009.

It is generally acknowledged that even without a glycogen-
depleting period of exercise, trained athletes can store
maximal amounts of muscle glycogen if fed a carbohydrate-
rich diet for 3 days. What has never been examined is
whether under these conditions this many days are necessary
for the content of muscle glycogen to attain these high
levels. To examine this issue, eight endurance-trained male
athletes were asked to eat 10 g.day(-1).kg(-1) body mass of
high-carbohydrate foods having a high glycaemic index over 3
days, while remaining physically inactive. Muscle biopsies
were taken prior to carbohydrate loading and after 1 and 3
days of eating the carbohydrate-rich diet. Muscle glycogen
content increased significantly ( P<0.05) from pre-loading
levels of [mean (SE)] 95 (5) to 180 (15) mmol.kg(-1) wet
mass after only 1 day, and remained stable afterwards
despite another 2 days of carbohydrate-rich diet.
Densitometric analyses of muscle sections stained with
periodic acid-Schiff not only supported these findings, but
also indicated that only 1 day of high carbohydrate intake
was required for glycogen stores to reach maximal levels in
types I, IIa, and IIb muscle fibres. In conclusion, these
findings showed that combining physical inactivity with a
high intake of carbohydrate enables trained athletes to
attain maximal muscle glycogen contents within only 24 h.