"Ullrich can get over last year's defeat"
View Full Version : "Ullrich can get over last year's defeat"
In extremely rare form, Bob Roll offered his opinion on
OLN's Road to the Tour. He believes that Jan's problem is
that he hasn't gotten over last year's defeat. This because
Lance had so much bad luck while Jan was in his best form
ever yet could not win. I like Bob and his sense of humor,
but this is the dumbest thing he has ever said. I don't see
how Jan could be disappointed w/the 03 Tour. He came back to
take second. Really, he was the story, not Lance's fifth
win. I think he may be busy with fatherhood, not incapable
of coping w/reality. If Bob were right, Jan would need
therapy 'cause he'd be nuts.
BTW, Jan says that he is on track w/his training. Not sure
what that means, but...
Dave
Pistof wrote:
> In extremely rare form, Bob Roll offered his opinion on
> OLN's Road to the Tour. He believes that Jan's problem is
> that he hasn't gotten over last year's defeat. This
> because Lance had so much bad luck while Jan was in his
> best form ever yet could not win. I like Bob and his sense
> of humor, but this is the dumbest thing he has ever said.
> I don't see how Jan could be disappointed w/the 03 Tour.
> He came back to take second. Really, he was the story, not
> Lance's fifth win. I think he may be busy with fatherhood,
> not incapable of coping w/reality. If Bob were right, Jan
> would need therapy 'cause he'd be nuts.
>
> BTW, Jan says that he is on track w/his training. Not sure
> what that means, but...
>
> Dave
I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss what an experienced pro,
particularly one who rode in europe for several seasons, has
to say. Poulidor lost a lot to Anquetil, but was still a
determined fighter. Who's to say Jan is made of, or isn't,
the same stuff? It's got to be immensely disappointing to be
at your best ever and then watch some guy, who just fell,
sprint off away at a speed you can't match.
in article c6a9ed$os@dispatch.concentric.net, Richard Adams at
ackthpt@concentric.net wrote on 4/22/04 10:26 PM:
> Pistof wrote:
>
>> In extremely rare form, Bob Roll offered his opinion on
>> OLN's Road to the Tour. He believes that Jan's problem is
>> that he hasn't gotten over last year's defeat. This
>> because Lance had so much bad luck while Jan was in his
>> best form ever yet could not win. I like Bob and his
>> sense of humor, but this is the dumbest thing he has ever
>> said. I don't see how Jan could be disappointed w/the 03
>> Tour. He came back to take second. Really, he was the
>> story, not Lance's fifth win. I think he may be busy with
>> fatherhood, not incapable of coping w/reality. If Bob
>> were right, Jan would need therapy 'cause he'd be nuts.
>>
>> BTW, Jan says that he is on track w/his training. Not
>> sure what that means, but...
>>
>> Dave
>
> I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss what an experienced
> pro, particularly one who rode in europe for several
> seasons, has to say. Poulidor lost a lot to Anquetil,
> but was still a determined fighter. Who's to say Jan is
> made of, or isn't, the same stuff? It's got to be
> immensely disappointing to be at your best ever and then
> watch some guy, who just fell, sprint off away at a
> speed you can't match.
Jan was definitely not at his "best ever," if you take into
consideration how he was coming off of being fired by
Telekom, the turmoil that his team went through during the
spring, etc. He didn't get as close as he did by being on
the best form of his life; he got as close as he did because
Lance had a string of misfortunes, and because Ullrich DID
manage to ride himself into form in time for that extremely
hot ITT. Armstrong said afterwards that he felt terrible,
and he thought he finished 102nd, not 2nd - where was
everyone else?
-Sonarrat.
Originally posted by Sonarrat
Jan was definitely not at his "best ever," if you take into
consideration how he was coming off of being fired by
Telekom, the turmoil that his team went through during the
spring, etc. He didn't get as close as he did by being on
the best form of his life; he got as close as he did because
Lance had a string of misfortunes, and because Ullrich DID
manage to ride himself into form in time for that extremely
hot ITT. Armstrong said afterwards that he felt terrible,
and he thought he finished 102nd, not 2nd - where was
everyone else?
-Sonarrat.
Bob Roll is talking blahblah here. I agree Jan might have severe psychological disadvantages compared to lance, but what he says about Jan's form is ridiculous.
It wasn't as much Jan's great form as Lance's relatively bad shape. Jan and Lance were helped by the injuries of their greatest competitors(Hamilton/Beloki), otherwise the story would have been different. And nope, I'm not detracting from Jan and Lance, staying in one piece is part of the bussiness. They were the best!
"Pistof" <dataylor123@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4088a188$0$46517$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net...
>
> BTW, Jan says that he is on track w/his training. Not sure
> what that
means,
> but...
We don't know what Jan's training schedule is. If he's just
focusing on the Tour, which looks to be the case, he's
probably just getting towards the end of base miles work,
and quite possibly just fitting races into his training.
When you do that, you do not go fast in the races, because
you are still fatigued from the previous work. It doesn't
mean you won't suddenly get very fast in the last few weeks
before your target race (that's the whole idea of peaking).
It's also worth pointing out that weight (for Lance as well)
this early means very little: you can easily lose 2-3 kilos
of fat a month, with no detrimental effect at all on
performance. Fat loss without muscle loss is much easier for
very active people.
The alternative is that he's had some kind of complete
breakdown and has completely jacked this season: his
current race form is so far below his previous years that
he'd have had to have done almost no training all winter to
get that slow.
Peter
Sonarrat <mynick@nospam.hotmail> wrote in message news:<BCADFAC3.3213%mynick@nospam.hotmail>...
> Jan was definitely not at his "best ever," if you take
> into consideration how he was coming off of being fired by
> Telekom, the turmoil that his team went through during the
> spring, etc. He didn't get as close as he did by being on
> the best form of his life; he got as close as he did
> because Lance had a string of misfortunes, and because
> Ullrich DID manage to ride himself into form in time for
> that extremely hot ITT. Armstrong said afterwards that he
> felt terrible, and he thought he finished 102nd, not 2nd -
> where was everyone else?
>
> -Sonarrat.
I agree, last year was far from an ideal preparation for the
Tour. he may not be in sparkling form at the moment, but I
think Roll is off the mark. From what I've heard, it's more
of a case of pressure from the media that's stressing him
out. Let' see come tour time...
"otto" <berchotto@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c3559fe7.0404230346.5e03affa@posting.google.com...
> Sonarrat <mynick@nospam.hotmail> wrote in message
news:<BCADFAC3.3213%mynick@nospam.hotmail>...
>
> > Jan was definitely not at his "best ever,"
Would you say that the man who came in second in the fastest
Tour de France ever WASN'T in his best form ever?
> I agree, last year was far from an ideal preparation for
> the Tour. he may not be in sparkling form at the moment,
> but I think Roll is off the mark. From what I've heard,
> it's more of a case of pressure from the media that's
> stressing him out. Let' see come tour time...
Yeah, that Bob Roll, only the second American to finish the
epic snow stage behind Andy Hampsten the year Andy won the
Giro, who rode several Tours de France himself and who was a
founding member of 7-11, Motorola and who was called by
Lance to help him come back from cancer wouldn't have any
idea of what happens with these guys.
Whereas Otto has a real handle on it.
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 14:25:31 GMT, Tom Kunich wrote:
> Yeah, that Bob Roll, only the second American to finish
> the epic snow stage behind Andy Hampsten
Where Erik Breukink won, btw, and where Johan vd Velde was
the first on top of the passo (but stopped to warm up in a
camper van).
-ED educating the masses
"Pistof" <dataylor123@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:4088a188$0$46517$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net:
> I like Bob and his sense of humor, but this is the
> dumbest thing he has ever said.
I doubt it. This is merely his most recent dumb statement.
I'm sure he has said plenty of dumber stuff, but nobody has
bothered to document it. Personally, I start to tune him out
as soon as I hear the words "Tour DAY France"
NS
"Peter Allen" <peteronusenet@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Dm7ic.52$9N.43@newsfe1-win...
> "Pistof" <dataylor123@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:4088a188$0$46517$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net...
> >
> > BTW, Jan says that he is on track w/his training. Not
> > sure what that
> means,
> > but...
>
> We don't know what Jan's training schedule is. If he's
> just focusing on
the
> Tour, which looks to be the case, he's probably just
> getting towards the
end
> of base miles work, and quite possibly just fitting races
> into his
training.
> When you do that, you do not go fast in the races, because
> you are still fatigued from the previous work. It doesn't
> mean you won't suddenly get
very
> fast in the last few weeks before your target race (that's
> the whole idea
of
> peaking). It's also worth pointing out that weight (for
> Lance as well)
this
> early means very little: you can easily lose 2-3 kilos of
> fat a month,
with
> no detrimental effect at all on performance. Fat loss
> without muscle loss
is
> much easier for very active people.
>
> The alternative is that he's had some kind of complete
> breakdown and has completely jacked this season: his
> current race form is so far below his previous years that
> he'd have had to have done almost no training all
winter
> to get that slow.
>
> Peter
>
That was a balanced and well reasoned post.
I'm sorry, you'll just have to do better than that next
time. Try flattening your perspective and using aggressive
and confrontational imagery.
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:vH9ic.6191$eZ5.5207@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> "otto" <berchotto@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:c3559fe7.0404230346.5e03affa@posting.google.com...
> > Sonarrat <mynick@nospam.hotmail> wrote in message
> news:<BCADFAC3.3213%mynick@nospam.hotmail>...
> >
> > > Jan was definitely not at his "best ever,"
>
> Would you say that the man who came in second in the
> fastest Tour de
France
> ever WASN'T in his best form ever?
>
> > I agree, last year was far from an ideal preparation for
> > the Tour. he may not be in sparkling form at the moment,
> > but I think Roll is off the mark. From what I've heard,
> > it's more of a case of pressure from the media that's
> > stressing him out. Let' see come tour time...
>
> Yeah, that Bob Roll, only the second American to finish
> the epic snow
stage
> behind Andy Hampsten the year Andy won the Giro, who rode
> several Tours de France himself and who was a founding
> member of 7-11,
Picky picky: Bobke not a 7-11 founder. No big wup.
Motorola and who was
> called by Lance to help him come back from cancer wouldn't
> have any idea
of
> what happens with these guys.
>
> Whereas Otto has a real handle on it.
>
>
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"Pistof" <dataylor123@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4088a188$0$46517$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net...
> In extremely rare form, Bob Roll offered his opinion on
> OLN's Road to the Tour. He believes that Jan's problem is
> that he hasn't gotten over last year's defeat. This
> because Lance had so much bad luck while Jan was in
his
> best form ever yet could not win.
Heusghem had bad luck when a dog crossed the road and he
lost the Tour in 1922. Brambilla had bad luck in 1947 in the
Pyrenees when chasing Robic a plane crashed just before him,
so he lost some precious minutes climbing over the wreckage.
But even a flat isn't just bad luck. And in 2003 Armstrong
made mistakes or wasn't as strong as he used to be. But he
didn't have bad luck.
Benjo Maso
"benjo maso" <benjo.maso@chello.nl> wrote in
news:c6btrl$ae0sb$1@ID-75468.news.uni-berlin.de:
>
> "Pistof" <dataylor123@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:4088a188$0$46517$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net...
>> In extremely rare form, Bob Roll offered his opinion on
>> OLN's Road to the Tour. He believes that Jan's problem is
>> that he hasn't gotten over last year's defeat. This
>> because Lance had so much bad luck while Jan was in
> his
>> best form ever yet could not win.
>
>
> Heusghem had bad luck when a dog crossed the road and he
> lost the Tour in 1922. Brambilla had bad luck in 1947 in
> the Pyrenees when chasing Robic a plane crashed just
> before him, so he lost some precious minutes climbing over
> the wreckage. But even a flat isn't just bad luck. And in
> 2003 Armstrong made mistakes or wasn't as strong as he
> used to be. But he didn't have bad luck.
Crashing because some kid hooked his handlebars wasn't bad
luck?
But I can also think of a bit of good luck -- when Beloki
crashed, Lance was able to avoid him and go through the
field because there was a little access for a tractor. If
that access had been a few feet further down the road, LA
would have crashed into a ditch.
NS
"Nev Shea" <spamtrap@garbage.net> wrote in message
news:byfic.6651$eZ5.199@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> "benjo maso" <benjo.maso@chello.nl> wrote in news:c6btrl$ae0sb$1@ID-75468.news.uni-
> berlin.de:
>
> >
> > "Pistof" <dataylor123@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:4088a188$0$46517$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net...
> >> In extremely rare form, Bob Roll offered his opinion on
> >> OLN's Road to the Tour. He believes that Jan's problem
> >> is that he hasn't gotten over last year's defeat. This
> >> because Lance had so much bad luck while Jan was in
> > his
> >> best form ever yet could not win.
> >
> >
> > Heusghem had bad luck when a dog crossed the road and he
> > lost the Tour in 1922. Brambilla had bad luck in 1947 in
> > the Pyrenees when chasing Robic a plane crashed just
> > before him, so he lost some precious minutes climbing
> > over the wreckage. But even a flat isn't just bad luck.
> > And in 2003 Armstrong made mistakes or wasn't as strong
> > as he used to be. But he didn't have bad luck.
>
> Crashing because some kid hooked his handlebars wasn't
> bad luck?
No it wasn't. He was riding too close to the spectators.
> But I can also think of a bit of good luck -- when Beloki
> crashed, Lance was able to avoid him and go through the
> field because there was a little access for a tractor. If
> that access had been a few feet further down the road, LA
> would have crashed into a ditch.
Perhaps. If he hadn't seen the access for the tractor he
would have reacted differently. And of course he way he
made use of it wasn't good luck at all, but presence of
mind and skill.
Benjo Maso
>No it wasn't. He was riding too close to the spectators.
It was his fault, but it still was unlucky, and it had nothing to do with his form.
Nev Shea wrote:
>
> I doubt it. This is merely his most recent dumb statement.
> I'm sure he has said plenty of dumber stuff, but nobody
> has bothered to document it. Personally, I start to tune
> him out as soon as I hear the words "Tour DAY France"
>
> NS
May I put in a vote for "Full-on schmenge-fest for sub-human
mutants?" (last year's description of a mountain stage - not
quite sure why it stuck in my head)
"leif_ericson" <usenet-forum@cyclingforums.com> wrote in message
news:y5gic.121$tQ1.112@fe06.usenetserver.com...
> >No it wasn't. He was riding too close to the spectators.
>
> It was his fault, but it still was unlucky, and it had
> nothing to do with his form.
I'm not so sure. When a rider isn't in form, there is a fair
chance he will lose his concentration and make mistakes.
Benjo Maso
>I'm not so sure. When a rider isn't in form, there is a fair
>chance he will lose his concentration and make mistakes.
>
>Benjo Maso
I doubt he was off form at that moment since he had just attacked most of his rivals, and after losing all of that time from the fall, he still came back and attacked again, and won the stage by over 40 seconds. I don't think that that means he had bad form, dumbass.
"benjo maso" <benjo.maso@chello.nl> wrote in message
news:c6btrl$ae0sb$1@ID-75468.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> And in 2003 Armstrong made mistakes or wasn't as strong as
> he used to be. But he
didn't
> have bad luck.
Would you call it good luck to hook a spectators feedbag and
come down hard breaking the chain stay on your bike?
"Nev Shea" <spamtrap@garbage.net> wrote in message
news:byfic.6651$eZ5.199@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> But I can also think of a bit of good luck -- when Beloki
> crashed, Lance was able to avoid him and go through the
> field because there was a little access for a tractor. If
> that access had been a few feet further down the road, LA
> would have crashed into a ditch.
I just happened to review that yesterday and I can tell you
that he took that route because it was most convenient (read
"safer") and not because he didn't have the option of
turning inside of Beloki's wreck.
You can't change the past for sure, but I think that if that
access wasn't there Lance could have slowed enough to cut
inside of Beloki.
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