Brakes affected by new bell law.
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In article <o5ydneblW5UzVgndSa8jmw@karoo.co.uk>, Simon Mason wrote:
>
> Funny you should say that, here's our local school trying
> to get bike sheds installed, but the locals are objecting.
> A snicket is a narrow pedestrian short cut between houses,
> like an alleyway.
Possibly featuring some sort of citrus fruit?
Alan Braggins wrote:
>>Funny you should say that, here's our local school trying
>>to get bike sheds installed, but the locals are objecting.
>>A snicket is a narrow pedestrian short cut between houses,
>>like an alleyway.
> Possibly featuring some sort of citrus fruit?
Lemon entry, Watson.
IGMC...
Guy
> When stopping, apply the back brake just before the front
> brake. I still do this but I don't really know why.
It's to do with weight transfer. The body moves forwards
slightly when the rear brake is applied and as a result
there is more downward pressure at the front tyre/road
interface minimising the possibilities of a front wheel skid
in marginal conditions.
The same training was given to tyro motorcyclists.
Funnily enough I am baout to sample the pleasures of
motorised two wheel transport very shortly. Even more
surprising was my wife's indication that she expects me to
purchase a crash helmet, not a dirty word in this contect,
for her as she wants to ride pillion after spending 20
years refusing to go anywhere near a motor bike when I last
owned one.
Women - I'll never figure them out. I was threatened with a
major injury if I bought a seventh push bike, now she's
positively keen to participate in my ownership of a motor
cycle.....
vernon levy wrote:
>>When stopping, apply the back brake just before the front
>>brake. I still do this but I don't really know why.
> It's to do with weight transfer. The body moves forwards
> slightly when the rear brake is applied and as a result
> there is more downward pressure at the front tyre/road
> interface minimising the possibilities of a front wheel
> skid in marginal conditions.
I've always done that, but assumed it was just me! I had no
idea why I did it, either, it just seemed right. Odd!
Guy
> > It's to do with weight transfer. The body moves forwards
> > slightly when
the
> > rear brake is applied and as a result there is more
> > downward pressure at
the
> > front tyre/road interface minimising the possibilities
> > of a front wheel
skid
> > in marginal conditions.
>
> I've always done that, but assumed it was just me! I had
> no idea why I did it, either, it just seemed right. Odd!
Think about the reverse actions i.e. using the front break
first......
Weight transfers forwards...weight reduction over rear wheel
leading to reduced braking efficiency....
You may well have been taught it but have forgotten about
the words of wisdom.
vernon levy wrote:
>
> Think about the reverse actions i.e. using the front break
> first......
>
> Weight transfers forwards...weight reduction over rear
> wheel leading to reduced braking efficiency....
>
> You may well have been taught it but have forgotten about
> the words of wisdom.
Think about it some more - or take the easy way out and read
guru Sheldon
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html#frontorrear
Tony
On 2004-05-02, vernon levy <not@home.net> wrote:
> Don't see what's wrong with that...I used to do it at
> primary school age as did quite a few pals of mine...rod
> brakes an' all!! We often underestimate what youngster can
> and can not do. I made my first working steam engine using
> lathes, milling machines and drill presses at the tender
> age of 12, I was, of course, supervised by the metalwork
> teacher. It wasn't seen as an out of the ordinary exercise
> at the time.
Whilest on the subject of brakes. How many times and how
tight can you adjust these new fangled aluminium ones? I
remember that threads in aluminium tend to wear out quicker
than threads in steel, but it seems that so many brakes are
steel screws into aluminium levers that I worry about
adjusting too much for fear of breaking them. In the olden
days of cheaper bikes, they were all steel screws with holes
in the middle for the cable, and a standard steel nut on the
end to tighten up.
I'm pleased with my new rear deraillure though, as the cable
clamping screw tightens into a steel plate behind the
aluminium bit, so I feel confident that it can take a fair
amount of adjusting without wearing out.
- Richard
--
_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ Richard dot Corfield at ntlworld dot
com _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/ Time is a one way street, _/
_/ _/_/ _/_/_/ Except in the Twilight Zone.
> >
> > You may well have been taught it but have forgotten
> > about the words of wisdom.
>
> Think about it some more - or take the easy way out and
> read guru Sheldon
> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html#frontorrear
>
There are different schools of thought regarding braking....
http://www.cobr.co.uk/e-
cobr_information/t_and_r_section/sections/intro_mtb/
braking_and_descending_2.htm
http://www.exploratorium.edu/cycling/brakes1.htmltp://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/pedbimot/motorcycle/00-
NHT-212-motorc ycle/motorcycle45-46.html
Different strokes for different folks.
Ol' Sheldon may be a very good source of cycling knowledge
but not all of his advice is infallable.and his grasp of
physics is flawed.
Richard Corfield rcnews2@littondale.dyndns.org opined the
following...
> Whilest on the subject of brakes. How many times and how
> tight can you adjust these new fangled aluminium ones? I
> remember that threads in aluminium tend to wear out
> quicker than threads in steel, but it seems that so many
> brakes are steel screws into aluminium levers that I worry
> about adjusting too much for fear of breaking them. In the
> olden days of cheaper bikes, they were all steel screws
> with holes in the middle for the cable, and a standard
> steel nut on the end to tighten up.
>
> I'm pleased with my new rear deraillure though, as the
> cable clamping screw tightens into a steel plate behind
> the aluminium bit, so I feel confident that it can take a
> fair amount of adjusting without wearing out.
Unless you apply an excessive torque, you shouldn't be able
to "wear out" the threads on anything. Which threads are you
referring to? What type of adjustment are you carrying out?
Jon
vernon levy wrote:
>>> You may well have been taught it but have forgotten
>>> about the words of wisdom.
>>
>> Think about it some more - or take the easy way out and
>> read guru Sheldon
>> http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html#frontorrear
>>
> There are different schools of thought regarding
> braking....
>
> http://www.cobr.co.uk/e-
> cobr_information/t_and_r_section/sections/intro_mtb/
> braking_and_descending_2.htm
Seems to agree with Sheldon
> http://www.exploratorium.edu/cycling/brakes1.html
Seems a general purpose education site and doesn't say much
at all about how to brake but has some quaint views.
> ://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/pedbimot/motorcycle/00-
> NHT-212-motorc ycle/motorcycle45-46.html
Doesn't say anything about correct braking technique and is
for motorbikes but hints at agreement with Sheldon
>
> Ol' Sheldon may be a very good source of cycling knowledge
> but not all of his advice is infallable.and his grasp of
> physics is flawed.
Not here it isn't. Which bit of weight transfer and braking
do you think he's got wrong?
The only situation where the back brake has a role is on
slippery and off-road conditions where the front wheel
loses traction before the weight is fully transferred off
the rear wheel.
Tony
Tony Raven junk@raven-family.com opined the following...
> Not here it isn't. Which bit of weight transfer and
> braking do you think he's got wrong?
>
> The only situation where the back brake has a role is on
> slippery and off-road conditions where the front wheel
> loses traction before the weight is fully transferred off
> the rear wheel.
Seconded. The physics is as follows.
- Greatest braking involves countering the rotational
force while retaining traction. Skidding is rarely a
good way to stop.
- While braking hard, the weight on the bike (or any vehicle
is moved forward)
- The wheel with the greatest traction is thus the front.
- Therefore the front should be subject to the hardest
braking.
You can bring the bike a to safe halt using both brakes, or
even just the rear. In some conditions, the it may not be
possible to get enough traction on the front wheel to safely
brake at the front. But in a straight line panic stop,
physics would support front braking. To avoid flying over
the handlebars... brace.
Jon
On 2004-05-02, Jon Senior <> wrote:
>
> Unless you apply an excessive torque, you shouldn't be
> able to "wear out" the threads on anything. Which threads
> are you referring to? What type of adjustment are you
> carrying out?
I'm remembering an experience with some threads in plain
aluminium on a home made camera tripod. It did wear out, but
then again, plain aluminium is very soft. I was warned at
the time by my engineering teacher that aluminium is soft,
and threads don't last as long if repeatedly screwed and
unscrewed. Aluminium is easy to knurl because it can be
squashed quite well.
In this case, I'm thinking of the screws that clamp the
cable to the end of the brake lever, adjusting the cable
length. To be fair, there is a fair length of thread there,
and adjustments are relatively infrequent. I'd want to
fasten them fairly tight though, as I don't want a brake
failure going downhill. Also, I'd hope that the aluminium
alloy used is a little more resilient than the plain stuff.
- Richard
--
_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ Richard dot Corfield at ntlworld dot
com _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/ Time is a one way street, _/
_/ _/_/ _/_/_/ Except in the Twilight Zone.
In article <slrnc9bsfb.4ir.rcnews2
@cobalt.internal.littondale.dyndns.org>,
rcnews2@littondale.dyndns.org says...
> On 2004-05-02, Jon Senior <> wrote:
> >
> > Unless you apply an excessive torque, you shouldn't be
> > able to "wear out" the threads on anything. Which
> > threads are you referring to? What type of adjustment
> > are you carrying out?
>
> I'm remembering an experience with some threads in plain
> aluminium on a home made camera tripod. It did wear out,
> but then again, plain aluminium is very soft. I was warned
> at the time by my engineering teacher that aluminium is
> soft, and threads don't last as long if repeatedly screwed
> and unscrewed. Aluminium is easy to knurl because it can
> be squashed quite well.
Your right that the alloys are quite different to plain
aluminium. To reduce general wear and tear (And it's good
practice anyway) use some ordinary grease or copper slip on
the threads (The latter will also prevent seizure between
steel and alu). The only thread wear problems I've ever
encountered have been due to cross-threading, which doesn't
count as normal wear and tear.
> In this case, I'm thinking of the screws that clamp the
> cable to the end of the brake lever, adjusting the cable
> length. To be fair, there is a fair length of thread
> there, and adjustments are relatively infrequent. I'd want
> to fasten them fairly tight though, as I don't want a
> brake failure going downhill. Also, I'd hope that the
> aluminium alloy used is a little more resilient than the
> plain stuff.
The cable clamp should be able to take the force required to
hold the cable in place, otherwise the brake unit would be
worthless. I can't say that I've ever had a problem with
that thread on any of the brakes I've owned.
Jon
in message <c73tid$i21av$1@ID-178940.news.uni-berlin.de>, Tony Raven
('junk@raven-family.com') wrote:
> The only situation where the back brake has a role is on
> slippery and off-road conditions where the front wheel
> loses traction before the weight is fully transferred off
> the rear wheel.
There is an issue about suspension and very uneven surfaces
here. If a wheel is being braked hard, and loses contact
with the ground, it will tend to stop. When it again touches
down it will be stopped, and held stopped by the brake. So a
skid is highly likely. This is part of why bikes with good
suspension can be ridden reasonably safely down extremely
horrible sections faster than bikes with no suspension.
--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke)
http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; I'll have a proper rant later, when I get the
time.
On 2004-05-03, Jon Senior <jon@restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk.remove> wrote:
>
> Your right that the alloys are quite different to plain
> aluminium. To reduce general wear and tear (And it's good
> practice anyway) use some ordinary grease or copper slip
> on the threads (The latter will also prevent seizure
> between steel and alu). The only thread wear problems I've
> ever encountered have been due to cross-threading, which
> doesn't count as normal wear and tear.
Been doing the grease thing as a way of helping prevent
corrosion of the screws.
> The cable clamp should be able to take the force required
> to hold the cable in place, otherwise the brake unit would
> be worthless. I can't say that I've ever had a problem
> with that thread on any of the brakes I've owned.
OK. These are my first aluminium ones. Previous bikes have
been somewhat cheaper.
- Richard
--
_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ Richard dot Corfield at ntlworld dot
com _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/ Time is a one way street, _/
_/ _/_/ _/_/_/ Except in the Twilight Zone.
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