Tuschinski
The Tour de Suise isn't the TdF. But I think the people writing of JU should eat crow. Or should that be a laxative as they were full of it? :)
Fatso ain't looking that bad....
View Full Version : Fatso ain't looking that bad....
Richard Adams
Tuschinski wrote:
> The Tour de Suise isn't the TdF. But I think the people
> writing of JU should eat crow. Or should that be a
> laxative as they were full of it? :)
>
Looks like there was a massive split and the sprinters,
McEwen notably, were way behind. Jan effectively outsprinted
the other sprint non-specialists. At least he's showing good
tactics by not starting the race 18 minutes down.
> The Tour de Suise isn't the TdF. But I think the people
> writing of JU should eat crow. Or should that be a
> laxative as they were full of it? :)
>
Looks like there was a massive split and the sprinters,
McEwen notably, were way behind. Jan effectively outsprinted
the other sprint non-specialists. At least he's showing good
tactics by not starting the race 18 minutes down.
Ewoud Dronkert
On 12 Jun 2004 18:24:16 EDT, Richard Adams wrote:
> Jan effectively outsprinted the other sprint non-
> specialists.
Still, Camenzind is no sukkelaar.
> Jan effectively outsprinted the other sprint non-
> specialists.
Still, Camenzind is no sukkelaar.
Steve Robertson
On 12 Jun 2004 18:24:16 EDT, Richard Adams
<ackthpt@concentric.net> wrote:
>Tuschinski wrote:
>> The Tour de Suise isn't the TdF. But I think the people
>> writing of JU should eat crow. Or should that be a
>> laxative as they were full of it? :)
>>
>
>Looks like there was a massive split and the sprinters,
>McEwen notably, were way behind. Jan effectively
>outsprinted the other sprint non-specialists. At least
>he's showing good tactics by not starting the race 18
>minutes down.
There was a break of two riders with 35K to go. Ullrich
bridged up (with Camenzind on his wheel) at 25K and then did
a lot of work to keep the break away. Jeker made it up with
10K to go.
This was not a "sprint" win for Ullrich, but an impressive
win in a small break with some very good riders. Maybe he
has learned something from Zurich finally, where he often
is the main factor in the break but always looses the few-
up sprint.
I wonder what will be going on now in T-Mobile's camp
though, as they must have been supporting Vinokourov for the
TdS. Ullrich cannot afford to alienate Vino right now,
unless he feels like superman. I expect to see some serious
domestique action from Ulle until the final time trial.
steve
<ackthpt@concentric.net> wrote:
>Tuschinski wrote:
>> The Tour de Suise isn't the TdF. But I think the people
>> writing of JU should eat crow. Or should that be a
>> laxative as they were full of it? :)
>>
>
>Looks like there was a massive split and the sprinters,
>McEwen notably, were way behind. Jan effectively
>outsprinted the other sprint non-specialists. At least
>he's showing good tactics by not starting the race 18
>minutes down.
There was a break of two riders with 35K to go. Ullrich
bridged up (with Camenzind on his wheel) at 25K and then did
a lot of work to keep the break away. Jeker made it up with
10K to go.
This was not a "sprint" win for Ullrich, but an impressive
win in a small break with some very good riders. Maybe he
has learned something from Zurich finally, where he often
is the main factor in the break but always looses the few-
up sprint.
I wonder what will be going on now in T-Mobile's camp
though, as they must have been supporting Vinokourov for the
TdS. Ullrich cannot afford to alienate Vino right now,
unless he feels like superman. I expect to see some serious
domestique action from Ulle until the final time trial.
steve
Jeff Jones
Richard Adams wrote:
> Tuschinski wrote:
>> The Tour de Suise isn't the TdF. But I think the people
>> writing of JU should eat crow. Or should that be a
>> laxative as they were full of it? :)
>>
>
> Looks like there was a massive split and the sprinters,
> McEwen notably, were way behind. Jan effectively
> outsprinted the other sprint non-specialists. At least
> he's showing good tactics by not starting the race 18
> minutes down.
Jan was doing some big turns early on today too, while Vino
enjoyed a bit more protection. "Suffer you
sow/pig/swine/farm animal".
Jeff
> Tuschinski wrote:
>> The Tour de Suise isn't the TdF. But I think the people
>> writing of JU should eat crow. Or should that be a
>> laxative as they were full of it? :)
>>
>
> Looks like there was a massive split and the sprinters,
> McEwen notably, were way behind. Jan effectively
> outsprinted the other sprint non-specialists. At least
> he's showing good tactics by not starting the race 18
> minutes down.
Jan was doing some big turns early on today too, while Vino
enjoyed a bit more protection. "Suffer you
sow/pig/swine/farm animal".
Jeff
Dieter Buerssne
steve robertson wrote:
> [...] Maybe he has learned something from Zurich finally,
> where he often is the main factor in the break but always
> looses the few-up sprint.
Indeed, that happened few times in Zürich. Last year, it
was a bit different, and Nardello won in a solo break.
Wasn't it similar 2 years ago? Jan must hate Zürich, but
for some reason, he still likes it. Perhaps similar to TdF
(he never won Zürich, but got almost the same number of
second places).
BTW. Zürich is a phantastic race to watch at the street.
With a bike, you can see the racers twice each round. Then
you can watch the finish at some TV close to the road.
> I wonder what will be going on now in T-Mobile's camp
> though, as they must have been supporting Vinokourov
> for the TdS. Ullrich cannot afford to alienate Vino
> right now, unless he feels like superman. I expect to
> see some serious domestique action from Ulle until the
> final time trial.
I guess, we will exactly see this.
Regards, Dieter
> [...] Maybe he has learned something from Zurich finally,
> where he often is the main factor in the break but always
> looses the few-up sprint.
Indeed, that happened few times in Zürich. Last year, it
was a bit different, and Nardello won in a solo break.
Wasn't it similar 2 years ago? Jan must hate Zürich, but
for some reason, he still likes it. Perhaps similar to TdF
(he never won Zürich, but got almost the same number of
second places).
BTW. Zürich is a phantastic race to watch at the street.
With a bike, you can see the racers twice each round. Then
you can watch the finish at some TV close to the road.
> I wonder what will be going on now in T-Mobile's camp
> though, as they must have been supporting Vinokourov
> for the TdS. Ullrich cannot afford to alienate Vino
> right now, unless he feels like superman. I expect to
> see some serious domestique action from Ulle until the
> final time trial.
I guess, we will exactly see this.
Regards, Dieter
Richard Adams
Dieter Buerssner schreibt: [snip]
>
> BTW. Zürich is a phantastic race to watch at the street.
[snup]
I think you mean pfannentastic.
>
> BTW. Zürich is a phantastic race to watch at the street.
[snup]
I think you mean pfannentastic.
Chris
"Tuschinski" <usenet-forum@cyclingforums.com> wrote in message
news:YfLyc.120449$0N2.42461@fe22.usenetserver.com...
> The Tour de Suise isn't the TdF. But I think the people
> writing of JU
should eat crow. Or should that be a laxative as they were
full of it? :)
>
Do some searches from years past and you will see that
picking on Jan is a well established part of the traditional
rivalry between Jan and any other Tour contender. The worst
years for actual weight gain are long past, but tradition
must be upheld (I guess). Some people just can't manage to
come up with new material and Jan being "fat" is too
tempting for envious wannabes to pass up.
news:YfLyc.120449$0N2.42461@fe22.usenetserver.com...
> The Tour de Suise isn't the TdF. But I think the people
> writing of JU
should eat crow. Or should that be a laxative as they were
full of it? :)
>
Do some searches from years past and you will see that
picking on Jan is a well established part of the traditional
rivalry between Jan and any other Tour contender. The worst
years for actual weight gain are long past, but tradition
must be upheld (I guess). Some people just can't manage to
come up with new material and Jan being "fat" is too
tempting for envious wannabes to pass up.
Tuschinski
Originally posted by Chris
Do some searches from years past and you will see that
picking on Jan is a well established part of the traditional
rivalry between Jan and any other Tour contender. The worst
years for actual weight gain are long past, but tradition
must be upheld (I guess). Some people just can't manage to
come up with new material and Jan being "fat" is too
tempting for envious wannabes to pass up.
I know... But as I actually have met JU a few years ago I am very annoyed about the nonsense sprouted about him. Anyone calling a pro cyclist "fat" (Dario Pieri is supposed to be the exception, LOL) needs to get a grip on reality. When I met him (it was an April in wich he was once again called "fat") I was a little bit shocked. I am called thin by most people. But I look like a body builder compared to JU.
Sure LA looked like a stickfigure (And Dekker is just plain scary!), but somehow I can't shake the feeling 1-2 kilos more wouldn't hurt a TdF racer. I saw quite a few tests wich pointed out bike weigth isn't an important factor at all... so how come two extra kilos would make winning the TdF improbable?
Do some searches from years past and you will see that
picking on Jan is a well established part of the traditional
rivalry between Jan and any other Tour contender. The worst
years for actual weight gain are long past, but tradition
must be upheld (I guess). Some people just can't manage to
come up with new material and Jan being "fat" is too
tempting for envious wannabes to pass up.
I know... But as I actually have met JU a few years ago I am very annoyed about the nonsense sprouted about him. Anyone calling a pro cyclist "fat" (Dario Pieri is supposed to be the exception, LOL) needs to get a grip on reality. When I met him (it was an April in wich he was once again called "fat") I was a little bit shocked. I am called thin by most people. But I look like a body builder compared to JU.
Sure LA looked like a stickfigure (And Dekker is just plain scary!), but somehow I can't shake the feeling 1-2 kilos more wouldn't hurt a TdF racer. I saw quite a few tests wich pointed out bike weigth isn't an important factor at all... so how come two extra kilos would make winning the TdF improbable?
John Forrest To
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 08:00:27 GMT, Tuschinski
<usenet-forum@cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> I saw quite a few tests wich pointed out bike weigth isn't
> an important factor at all...
What tests and where?
JT
<usenet-forum@cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> I saw quite a few tests wich pointed out bike weigth isn't
> an important factor at all...
What tests and where?
JT
Tuschinski
Originally posted by John Forrest To
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 08:00:27 GMT, Tuschinski
<usenet-forum@cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> I saw quite a few tests wich pointed out bike weigth isn't
> an important factor at all...
What tests and where?
JT
The Dutch magazine Fiets had quite a few articles a few years ago on bike weigth. Adrie van Diemen did something similar on rider weigth (if you wonder, he had among other Danny Nelissen under his wing when he became Worldchampion).
I could try to reason to it (but I'm no expert in this area): if you take of one Kilo of the bike of a 75 kg pro you would get *approx*
Bike+ gear(shoes, helmet, socks etc)= 8.5kgs->7.5 kgs
Rider =75kgs
Percentage weigth lost- 1.2%
Now how much would this effectively count towards friction? Friction is minor compared to air resistance (more when climbing for sure, but would it be over 0.1%?). And would you ascend somewhat faster (conservation of energy)?
I agree that every little thing counts, but we are entering the realm of myth here.
To complicate it:*extra kg bodyweigth=could mean Extra KG fuel/muscle?*
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 08:00:27 GMT, Tuschinski
<usenet-forum@cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> I saw quite a few tests wich pointed out bike weigth isn't
> an important factor at all...
What tests and where?
JT
The Dutch magazine Fiets had quite a few articles a few years ago on bike weigth. Adrie van Diemen did something similar on rider weigth (if you wonder, he had among other Danny Nelissen under his wing when he became Worldchampion).
I could try to reason to it (but I'm no expert in this area): if you take of one Kilo of the bike of a 75 kg pro you would get *approx*
Bike+ gear(shoes, helmet, socks etc)= 8.5kgs->7.5 kgs
Rider =75kgs
Percentage weigth lost- 1.2%
Now how much would this effectively count towards friction? Friction is minor compared to air resistance (more when climbing for sure, but would it be over 0.1%?). And would you ascend somewhat faster (conservation of energy)?
I agree that every little thing counts, but we are entering the realm of myth here.
To complicate it:*extra kg bodyweigth=could mean Extra KG fuel/muscle?*
Steven
Tuschinski <usenet-forum@cyclingforums.com> wrote in message news:<Dsgzc.130136$FT5.9608@fe16.usenetserver.com>...
> John Forrest To wrote:
> > On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 08:00:27 GMT, Tuschinski <usenet-
> > forum@cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> > > I saw quite a few tests wich pointed out bike weigth
> > > isn't an important factor at all...
> > What tests and where? JT
>
>
>
> The Dutch magazine Fiets had quite a few articles a few
> years ago on bike weigth. Adrie van Diemen did something
> similar on rider weigth (if you wonder, he had among other
> Danny Nelissen under his wing when he became
> Worldchampion).
>
> I could try to reason to it (but I'm no expert in this
> area): if you take of one Kilo of the bike of a 75 kg pro
> you would get *approx*
>
> Bike+ gear(shoes, helmet, socks etc)= 8.5kgs->7.5 kgs
> Rider =75kgs
>
> Percentage weigth lost- 1.2%
>
> Now how much would this effectively count towards
> friction? Friction is minor compared to air resistance
> (more when climbing for sure, but would it be over 0.1%?).
> And would you ascend somewhat faster (conservation of
> energy)?
>
> I agree that every little thing counts, but we are
> entering the realm of myth here.
>
> To complicate it:*extra kg bodyweigth=could mean Extra KG
> fuel/muscle?*
>
>
>
> --
Acording to www.analyticcyling.com the difference at 400
watts on a 6% slope is 7 cm/sec a fairly substanial amount.
I.E for a one hour uphill TT, the difference is 252 meters;
roughly 35 seconds.
The website also explains the calculations.
> John Forrest To wrote:
> > On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 08:00:27 GMT, Tuschinski <usenet-
> > forum@cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> > > I saw quite a few tests wich pointed out bike weigth
> > > isn't an important factor at all...
> > What tests and where? JT
>
>
>
> The Dutch magazine Fiets had quite a few articles a few
> years ago on bike weigth. Adrie van Diemen did something
> similar on rider weigth (if you wonder, he had among other
> Danny Nelissen under his wing when he became
> Worldchampion).
>
> I could try to reason to it (but I'm no expert in this
> area): if you take of one Kilo of the bike of a 75 kg pro
> you would get *approx*
>
> Bike+ gear(shoes, helmet, socks etc)= 8.5kgs->7.5 kgs
> Rider =75kgs
>
> Percentage weigth lost- 1.2%
>
> Now how much would this effectively count towards
> friction? Friction is minor compared to air resistance
> (more when climbing for sure, but would it be over 0.1%?).
> And would you ascend somewhat faster (conservation of
> energy)?
>
> I agree that every little thing counts, but we are
> entering the realm of myth here.
>
> To complicate it:*extra kg bodyweigth=could mean Extra KG
> fuel/muscle?*
>
>
>
> --
Acording to www.analyticcyling.com the difference at 400
watts on a 6% slope is 7 cm/sec a fairly substanial amount.
I.E for a one hour uphill TT, the difference is 252 meters;
roughly 35 seconds.
The website also explains the calculations.
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