Pre-diabetic

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Patricia1966wa

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I have went to classes for my diabetes and they have said
over and = over there is no such thing a pre diabetic, you
either are or your = not.... I don't understand a pre
diabetic, do you think it means people = at risk for being
a diabetic?" I also learned once you have diabetes you =
will always be a diabetic... But you can control the blood
sugars and = be med free..... so I get confused when I
hear pre diabetic.... ------
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text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding:
quoted-printable

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<DIV>  I have went to classes for my diabetes and
they  have = said over=20 and over there is no
such thing a pre diabetic, you either are or your =
not.... I=20 don't understand a pre diabetic,  do
you think it means people at = risk for=20 being a
diabetic?" I also learned once you have diabetes you
will always = be a=20 diabetic... But you can control
the blood sugars and  be med = free..... so I=20
get confused when I hear pre
diabetic....</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Oldal4865

Patricia1966wa wrote in message ... I have went to classes
for my diabetes and they have said over and over there is no
such thing a pre diabetic, you either are or your not.... I
don't understand a pre diabetic, do you think it means
people at risk for being a diabetic?" I also learned once
you have diabetes you will always be a diabetic... But you
can control the blood sugars and be med free..... so I get
confused when I hear pre diabetic...

Go take a look at the initial charts in:

The Progression and Natural History of Type 2 Diabetes

A very good speech to doctors by an Endo, given at the 2001
ADA convention. presented at the URL shown below.

http://www.medscape.com/viewprogram/145

Pay special attention to charts 6, 9 and 10. In general, the
disease is causing severe damage to your beta cells and
other parts of the body for 10 years or so before anybody
notices high blood sugars.

Thus, there is a lot of room for confusion. When exactly do
you have diabetes? The Figures in that Speech suggest that
you have it 10 years before anybody notices, but that's not
a useful definition for the doctors and the insurance
companies. They want easily-observed symptoms like high bG.
Thus, they have committees of doctors produce arbitrary and
capricious definitions of high blood sugar and normal blood
sugar and "pre-diabetic" blood sugar.

Wait a few years and today's "pre-diabetic" could easily be
tomorrow's "full-blown diabetes". On the other hand, 20
years ago, folks were walking around with bG that we
consider horrible today, but which their docs had described
as "normal"

Once you are in the Standard Type 2 Diabetes Progression,
you will progress to loss of blood sugar control, a need for
meds, and finally a need for insulin injections as the
disease progresses. There's no real escaping it; if you have
the Type 2 genes and they are active, you will develop the
disease. One might even say you've had it since childhood.

Your goal is to make changes in diet, exercise, abdominal
fat level and other lifestyle conditions to fight the
effects of those genes so that the difficulties with blood
sugar come later rather than sooner. You would prefer that
you don't "need meds" until your 90th birthday, and finally
need insulin on your 120th birthday so you work now to
approach those goals.

Regards
Old Al

.

Eldritch

Patricia1966wa wrote:
> I have went to classes for my diabetes and they have
> said over and over there is no such thing a pre
> diabetic, you either are or your not.... I don't
> understand a pre diabetic, do you think it means people
> at risk for being a diabetic?" I also learned once you
> have diabetes you will always be a diabetic... But you
> can control the blood sugars and be med free..... so I
> get confused when I hear pre diabetic....

The term "pre-diabetes" is one that has wobbled in
and out of fashion.

In the old days, you got diagnosed as diabetic with
a fasting at 140. As your insulin resistance
increased and as your pancreas failed, your numbers
would gradually increase toward 140. And doctors
called that pre-diabetic. And after you crossed the
140 threshold, my tell you directly that you had
diabetes or he might try to avoid getting you mad at
him by softening it with "you've got a touch of
diabetes."

Some time after that, they sort of reclassified it.
They decided that "pre-diabetes" was a bad way to
describe it, I guess perhaps because some people
became "pre-diabetic" but never went on to becoming
diabetic. So they came up with a new term for it.
They called that gray zone between a fasting of 110
and 140 as "Glucose Intolerant." That way they had a
deal with the people permanently in that condition.
And since "pre-diabetic" was suddenly an old
fashioned term, they could berate us that "there's
no such thing as pre-diabetes."

I became diabetic during this period and accepting
the new church doctrine, I repeated the mantra each
night at bedtime with my prayers, "There is no pre-
diabetes There is no pre-diabetes There is no pre-
diabetes There is no pre-diabetes."

And then, presto chango, Bush is president and his
health agencies suddenly discovered that there was a
terrible plague of diabetes sweeping the land which
no one had ever noticed before and the knew the best
possible way to deal with it was to make every
citizen paranoid that he was going to die soon, so
they warned us that there are millions of "pre-
diabetics" out there who need to change their
ways...... And so here we are, telling each other
that we're pre-diabetic again.

That's it today. Check back in five years.

E (sticking finger in air to test
direction of wind)

Beav

"Patricia1966wa" <Patricia1966wa@comcast.net> wrote in
message news:O9CCc.27$K23.26459@news.uswest.net... I have
went to classes for my diabetes and they have said over and
over there is no such thing a pre diabetic, you either are
or your not.... I don't understand a pre diabetic, do you
think it means people at risk for being a diabetic?" I also
learned once you have diabetes you will always be a
diabetic... But you can control the blood sugars and be med
free..... so I get confused when I hear pre diabetic....

No more than many of us Patricia. Like you say, you either
is or you isn't, but the term "pre-diabetic" seems to be
used more and more where there's an intolerance to glucose.
To me, that's someone who's diabetic, because if you don't
have an intolerance to glucose, you're not ever going to see
BG numbers in the diabetic range.

Once you overstep the line that's drawn between "us and
them", you're one of us. Maybe not ALL BG readings are above
that line, but enough for you to think "diabetic" and do
what's necessary to stay under the line.

Beav

Jonk

Julie Bove

"Patricia1966wa" <Patricia1966wa@comcast.net> wrote in
message news:O9CCc.27$K23.26459@news.uswest.net... I have
went to classes for my diabetes and they have said over and
over there is no such thing a pre diabetic, you either are
or your not.... I don't understand a pre diabetic, do you
think it means people at risk for being a diabetic?" I also
learned once you have diabetes you will always be a
diabetic... But you can control the blood sugars and be med
free..... so I get confused when I hear pre diabetic....

Pre-diabetes is what they used to call impaired glucose
tolerance. It means that your BG is higher than normal, but
not as high as diabetes. However, they keep lowering the
threshold for diabetes and I suspect that one day soon there
will be no such thing as pre-diabetes. Those people will
probably be told that they too have diabetes.

You are right that diabetes does not go away, exceptions
being diabetes that was brought on by medication such as
prednisone. In some cases, that type of diabetes can go
away, but it doesn't always.

As for medication, some people don't need to take it. Some
do. Whether you do or you don't is no bearing on you or how
hard you are working to control
it. It's all a matter of how well your body is functioning.

--
Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

Priscilla Ballo

In article <O9CCc.27$K23.26459@news.uswest.net>,
"Patricia1966wa" <Patricia1966wa@comcast.net> wrote:

> I have went to classes for my diabetes and they have
> said over and over there is no such thing a pre
> diabetic, you either are or your not.... I don't
> understand a pre diabetic, do you think it means people
> at risk for being a diabetic?" I also learned once you
> have diabetes you will always be a diabetic... But you
> can control the blood sugars and be med free..... so I
> get confused when I hear pre diabetic....

Just mentally substitute the words "early diabetic." That's
what it really i.

Priscilla

Patricia1966wa

thank you very much. I will read this. I have read what
you wrote. I thought I was diabetic fo years long
before I was dx.

Patricia "oldal4865" <oldal4865@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2k0fu1F15ck2kU1@uni-berlin.de...
>
> Patricia1966wa wrote in message ... I have went to classes
> for my diabetes and they have said over and over there is
> no such thing a pre diabetic, you either are or your
> not.... I don't understand a pre diabetic, do you think it
> means people at risk for being a diabetic?" I also learned
> once you have diabetes you will always be a diabetic...
> But you can control the blood sugars and be med free.....
> so I get confused when I hear pre diabetic...
>
>
> Go take a look at the initial charts in:
>
> The Progression and Natural History of Type 2 Diabetes
>
> A very good speech to doctors by an Endo, given at the
> 2001 ADA convention. presented at the URL shown below.
>
> http://www.medscape.com/viewprogram/145
>
> Pay special attention to charts 6, 9 and 10. In general,
> the disease is causing severe damage to your beta cells
> and other parts of the body for 10 years or so before
> anybody notices high blood sugars.
>
> Thus, there is a lot of room for confusion. When exactly
> do you have diabetes? The Figures in that Speech suggest
> that you have it 10 years before anybody notices, but
> that's not a useful definition for the doctors and the
> insurance companies. They want easily-observed symptoms
> like high bG. Thus, they have committees of doctors
> produce arbitrary and capricious definitions of high
> blood sugar and normal blood sugar and "pre-diabetic"
> blood sugar.
>
> Wait a few years and today's "pre-diabetic" could easily
> be tomorrow's "full-blown diabetes". On the other hand, 20
> years ago, folks were walking around with bG that we
> consider horrible today, but which their docs had
> described as "normal"
>
> Once you are in the Standard Type 2 Diabetes Progression,
> you will progress to loss of blood sugar control, a need
> for meds, and finally a need for insulin injections as the
> disease progresses. There's no real escaping it; if you
> have the Type 2 genes and they are active, you will
> develop the disease. One might even say you've had it
> since childhood.
>
> Your goal is to make changes in diet, exercise, abdominal
> fat level and other lifestyle conditions to fight the
> effects of those genes so that the difficulties with blood
> sugar come later rather than sooner. You would prefer that
> you don't "need meds" until your 90th birthday, and
> finally need insulin on your 120th birthday so you work
> now to approach those goals.
>
> Regards
> Old Al
>
>
> .

Patricia1966wa

wow. now I am getting it. Thanks.

Patricia "Eldritch" <TiredofSppam@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:2k0hnpF1687hpU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Patricia1966wa wrote:
>> I have went to classes for my diabetes and they have
>> said over and over there is no such thing a pre
>> diabetic, you either are or your not.... I don't
>> understand a pre diabetic, do you think it means people
>> at risk for being a diabetic?" I also learned once you
>> have diabetes you will always be a diabetic... But you
>> can control the blood sugars and be med free..... so I
>> get confused when I hear pre diabetic....
>
>
>
> The term "pre-diabetes" is one that has wobbled in and out
> of fashion.
>
>
> In the old days, you got diagnosed as diabetic with a
> fasting at 140. As your insulin resistance increased and
> as your pancreas failed, your numbers would gradually
> increase toward 140. And doctors called that pre-diabetic.
> And after you crossed the 140 threshold, my tell you
> directly that you had diabetes or he might try to avoid
> getting you mad at him by softening it with "you've got a
> touch of diabetes."
>
>
> Some time after that, they sort of reclassified it. They
> decided that "pre-diabetes" was a bad way to describe it,
> I guess perhaps because some people became "pre-diabetic"
> but never went on to becoming diabetic. So they came up
> with a new term for it. They called that gray zone between
> a fasting of 110 and 140 as "Glucose Intolerant." That way
> they had a deal with the people permanently in that
> condition. And since "pre-diabetic" was suddenly an old
> fashioned term, they could berate us that "there's no such
> thing as pre-diabetes."
>
>
> I became diabetic during this period and accepting the new
> church doctrine, I repeated the mantra each night at
> bedtime with my prayers, "There is no pre-diabetes There
> is no pre-diabetes There is no pre-diabetes There is no
> pre-diabetes."
>
>
> And then, presto chango, Bush is president and his health
> agencies suddenly discovered that there was a terrible
> plague of diabetes sweeping the land which no one had ever
> noticed before and the knew the best possible way to deal
> with it was to make every citizen paranoid that he was
> going to die soon, so they warned us that there are
> millions of "pre-diabetics" out there who need to change
> their ways...... And so here we are, telling each other
> that we're pre-diabetic again.
>
>
> That's it today. Check back in five years.
>
>
> E (sticking finger in air to test direction of wind)

Patricia1966wa

different perspective but I can see your point. Thanks for
taking time to write... Thinking to self, keep your
insurance, Patricia ....

"JonK" <jon@the-kaplans.DOT.com> wrote in message
news:vgGCc.4320$lo1.1851@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com...
> Patricia1966wa wrote:
>
>> I have went to classes for my diabetes and they have
>> said over and over there is no such thing a pre
>> diabetic, you either are or your not.... I don't
>> understand a pre diabetic, do you think it means people
>> at risk for being a diabetic?" I also learned once you
>> have diabetes you will always be a diabetic... But you
>> can control the blood sugars and be med free..... so I
>> get confused when I hear pre diabetic....
>
> Diabetes and pre-diabetes (or IGT) are clearly the same
> thing, differing only in degree.
>
> The distinction is for purposes of treatment and
> insurance. With pre-diabetes they warn you to watch your
> eating but they don't want to pay for any treatment or
> drugs. My sister has good fasting blood sugars but she can
> spike over 200. Kaiser won't give her meds. The doctor is
> giving her minimal (250 mg) metformin but even that is "off-
> label" (unapproved) to Kaiser.
>
> At the same time, being pre-diabetic is an advantage,
> because once you're officially diagnosed as a diabetic,
> it's a ***** to ever get insurance again.
>
> Jon

I waffled a bit before joining this particular fray (the
mere term "pre-diabetes" seems to evoke a lot of teeth-
gnashing & apoplexy)....

the much-reviled ADA does have a section on pre-d at http://www.diabetes.org/pre-
diabetes.jsp There is also something from the NIH at http:/-
/diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/insulinresistance/index.htm
Info on diagnostic levels, etc. at
http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/diagnosis/index.htm bj

Pinecone

"bj" <bjones44@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message news:<WjZCc.1465$x9.1132@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>...
> I waffled a bit before joining this particular fray (the
> mere term "pre-diabetes" seems to evoke a lot of teeth-
> gnashing & apoplexy)....
>
> the much-reviled ADA does have a section on pre-d at http://www.diabetes.org/pre-
> diabetes.jsp There is also something from the NIH at htt-
> p://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/insulinresistance/ind-
> ex.htm Info on diagnostic levels, etc. at http://diabete- (http://diabete-/)
> s.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/diagnosis/index.htm bj

Thanks, bj. I started to post these and faltered, thinking I
might be eaten alive! As was pointed out earlier, these may
be arbitrary and capricious, and even politically motivated,
but humans love to build frameworks so they can plug and
chug, don't they?!

Bmoss69893

>> I have went to classes for my diabetes and they have
>> said over and over there is no such thing a pre
>> diabetic, you either are or your not.... I don't
>> understand a pre diabetic, do you think it means people
>> at risk
>for
>> being a diabetic?

Several programs on TV recently about pre-diabetes. No one
ever used that expression with me. I was "diabetic" when
diagnosed. Had they use pre-diabetic, I would have gotten
the wake up call much earlier. Betty.

"BMoss69893" <bmoss69893@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040627133328.11491.00000442@mb-m23.aol.com...
> >There is also something from the NIH at http://diabetes.- (http://diabetes.-/)
> >niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/insulinresistance/index.htm
>
> They have a good BMI Index (Body Mass Index) on this web
> site. I printed
it out and will make copies to take to my TOPS chapter.
We have some who really need it, including me. I seem to
be about still about 10 pounds overweight. Already lost
45. Betty.

Good for you! bj

Patricia1966wa

How are you loosing it?

Patricia "BMoss69893" <bmoss69893@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040627133328.11491.00000442@mb-m23.aol.com...
> >There is also something from the NIH at
>>http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/insulinresistance/i-
>>ndex.htm
>
> They have a good BMI Index (Body Mass Index) on this web
> site. I printed it out and will make copies to take to my
> TOPS chapter. We have some who really need it, including
> me. I seem to be about still about 10 pounds overweight.
> Already lost 45. Betty.