Is Millar a lying, cheating snake in the grass?

Since 2001, over 90,000 cyclist's have joined Cycling Forums to discuss topics from general cycling to equipment, training, racing and travel or vacation destinations (especially in europe during the tour de france). We also feature an great deals in our online store, 100's of articles, classifieds and product reviews.

I just don't know how anyone can still cling to the belief that the peleton is primarily clean?

As included in most news reports on Millar - he has never tested positive in his career. Okay - there are no hard facts at this stage, and yes the presumption is innocence until guilt is proven (although personally I don't think cycling has this luxury at the moment) but he has been accused by a convicted former teammate and has now reportedly confessed to EPO use after evidence was found in his apartment. I'm pretty sure this one is going to play out the way it looks.

So - if a high profile, tour de france stage winning, world champion can evade a positive test for several years of competition what is there to suggest that this is an isolated case?

This year there have been how many deaths from heart attacks? There has been the Kelme scandal - with a former rider appearing to spill the beans on team organised doping. Okay the guy had an agenda but he seemed to know exactly what he was talking about. Also the Cofidis scandal where again there was the implication that teams or at least team leaders were organising doping (hence the continued investigation into Millar). Then after the Giro there were the highly suspicious phone taps implicating several big riders from big teams such as Fassa and Saeco.

Okay - I accept that in each of these individual cases due to lack of direct eveidence it might be hard to prove categorically that the rider is guilty. If you take all of these things in an overall perspective can you honestly stand there and say that the peleton is mainly clean?

I used to think that - you know - cycling is tested more than almost any other sport, it's just a few bad apples, if riders were doping they'd get caught, surely their teams would know etc etc. ie all the usuall excuses that practically everyone (includung people on forums like this one) trot out whenever there's a case in the papers.

But I just don't believe that any more. And more importantly I'm pretty sure that the outside world don't either. Cycling will never raise it's profile to the level it could be whilst it has this monkey on it's back. I accept that the sport has probably never been clean and that this is part of the problem but if the sport wants to operate within the structures that other sports do ie the olympics and so on it needs to sort itself out. It amazes me that teams are still able to find sponsors these days - there is no way if I had a company looking to sponsor a sports team I'd take the risk with a cycling team. The bad publicity is so damaging - say Festina and try to think of anything other than dope scandal. It's pretty hard!

There has to be some form of amnesty and a real genuine attempt by the UCI and all of the teams involved to actually sort this problem out rather than simply try and manage the PR to limit damage to the sport. Lifetime bans would seem a sensible way to start.

Disppointed and dissalusioned form the UK

James

This is deja-vu.
The comments here mirror the comments made by fans in the immediate aftermath of the Festina affair and here we are six years later, with the exact same issues dogging this sport.

On a human level, I do have sympathy with David Millar – he has done something, illegal on the face of it, for which he may have to pay a very high price.
Is Millar’s alleged behaviour symptomatic of him or the sport ?
I think it is both.
I think the sport – and one has to lay the blame entirely at the feet of the UCI – has not been willing to face up to the problem of drug abuse since at least 1998 and Festina.
Look at the reaction of our sport when someone criticizes it – look at how Armstrong howled when Dick Pound made criticisms (rightly).
The wider public consider cycling to be the most corrupt of sports.

Apologists will claim that cycling is more tested than any other sport – and thus will claim that if the same stringent methods of testing were adopted in other sports that these sports too would be uncovered.
This smacks of denial and is a cop out.
What goes on in other sports – is the responsibility of those other sports.
No one in cycling can be responsible for what does or doesn’t happen in other sports.
But we must all take responsibility for what happens in OUR sport.
Therefore it is up to cyclists, cycling administrators, sponsors and fans to ensure that the behaviour of everyone within THIS sport is above board and not to use other sports as an excuse for not tackling the drug problem in cycling.
It behoves us to get our sport in order – so that when the issue of drugs is raised, we are in a position to state confidently that cycling is clean.
It seems obvious to me that the culture of doping is very engrained in our sport.

The sport also makes great play about how so few cyclists actually fail drug tests.
This also forms part of the culture of denial.
Dave Millar never failed a test.
Philippe Gaumont explained in detail how one can dope and avoid detection.
Jesus Manzano also detailed the systematic process of detection avoidance at Kelme.
Willy Voet’s book details how Festina were able to evade procedures.
Emma O’Reilly has detailed how USPS evaded drug detection.
So because someone has never failed a drug test doesn’t mean that he doesn’t prove that he doesn’t dope.
Unfortunately, it is now evident that cyclists and their teams are so far ahead of detection that the presumption of innocence – which should hold – is effectively redundant given what continues to be uncovered in our sport.
We cannot know that someone is clean even though the test show he is clean.

The cheats are now threatening the very fabric of the sport.
Sponsors are leaving the sport – the popularity of races are diminishing – there is currently a backlash against the TDF in France because the French associate the sportwith corruption and drug taking.
The French government realise that this international event is under serious threat and they want to see the prestige of the event restored before public opinion moves to have it banned.
I commend the civil authorities such the police and customs for the work that the UCI should be doing in exposing cyclings drug culture and drug trafficking.

Will Millars exposure change the sport ?
I thought that Festina 1998 was going to change the sport but it didn’t.
The same dysfunctional attitude that prevailed in 1998 is still with us today.
I think that we will need to see a few more big fish being exposed before the culture changes – and I also think that the regulation of the sport needs to be taken away from the UCI immediately.
It is obvious that the UCI is unable – and unwilling – to take the steps necessary to rebuild this sports credibility.
You just have to look at how it prevaricated about signing up to WADA.
I’ve said it before and I will say it again and I will continue to repeat – that unless and until these clowns are replaced with people who are prepared to what is necessary, this
sport will continue to lose what little credibility is left.
The 1999 TDF “the tour of renewal and hope” I think they called it – happened to record the fastest time ever – up to that point
And it has continued to get faster and faster since 1998.
“But they’re all clean – look, they haven’t failed a dope test – they must be clean” = is the collective cry.
Indeed – and they expect us to buy the line that a clean rider will be able to cycle more quickly than his drug propelled colleague too.
Indeed.

In the Sunday Times yesterday, David Walsh stated that he thought that Millar was clean when he started in the peloton in 1998.
Walsh also points to the fact that Millar was very anti-doping in all his public utterances.
Walsh asks the question, if what is alleged about Millar is true, what happened to Millar to make him decide to use drugs ?
It’s a fair question and perhaps it will be answered in time.

What is needed is a commission into the medical practices of the sport which can subpoena any rider, team manager, sogneiur, team doctor or other team official along with testing officials and those who develop procedures.
The commission needs to find out all the methods of avoidance of tests and the methods used to avoid detection by those tests. Many have already been revealed by Jesus Manzano and those who have ignored him have done so at their peril. The fact that riders associations chose to ostrasise him rather than welcome an inquiry to prove that the sport is clean is a major concern to me as a fan and as a cyclist.

My suspicion is that many riders see the oportunity to lose contracts and sponsorship deals (ie money) rather than the oportunity to be able to compete on a level playing field where hard work and ability is rewarded.

It makes you wonder how many "recreational" riders (ie vets, local club riders) are tempted to have a go at some of these drugs because they see how successful it can make the pro's. It might seem a wierd move for competing in races that mean nothing to anyone but the people in them, but you'd be surprised how far people let their ego push them.

Because I have taken up cycling recently and am an avid follower of the TdeF and other cycling events a lot of non-cycling friends ask me about what is going on with drugs in the sport. It is the first thing that lay people associate with the sport. it really does have an image problem. Pretty soon sponsors will begin to question their investment if something is not done. Not only that but governments will stop funding development programs and then the sport will be ruined.

Unfortunately every successful cyclist and every exceptional performance will be questioned about whether it was drug enhanced. This is no way to celebrate great efforts.

The sport needs a complete overhaul from the administration all the way through to the athletes and support teams. It is currently in danger of dying a painful death at professional and elite amateur level.

In the end it won't change what I do. I'll still ride my weekend race and enjoy my training. So what do I care? Not much really, until I see the career prospects of a promising young athlete come to nought because the sport has been ruined.

What disappoints me most about the Millar affair is the total hypocrisy of the man. In the most recent issue of Procycling he is quoted as saying

"You have to understand my position. You're talking about absolute crap from this lunatic Gaumont. That's what it is and it's hard to express to people the degree of crap this is."

Well Mr Millar the crap seems to have hit the fan and landed on you!

Doesn't the whole thing seem a bit odd? Millar has been very much at the center of a huge investigation and scandal for the past couple of months, and yet there are used ampoules of EPO lying around his flat...

As of today only L'Equipe has made these allegations - might it not be better to get some official corroboration or (hopefully) refutation? If he is guilty, of course, it's an even bigger disappointment.

Originally posted by tongo
Doesn't the whole thing seem a bit odd? Millar has been very much at the center of a huge investigation and scandal for the past couple of months, and yet there are used ampoules of EPO lying around his flat...

As of today only L'Equipe has made these allegations - might it not be better to get some official corroboration or (hopefully) refutation? If he is guilty, of course, it's an even bigger disappointment.

www.cyclingnews.com reports that Millar is due in court on
Thursday.

Originally posted by Spider1977
It makes you wonder how many "recreational" riders (ie vets, local club riders) are tempted to have a go at some of these drugs because they see how successful it can make the pro's. It might seem a wierd move for competing in races that mean nothing to anyone but the people in them, but you'd be surprised how far people let their ego push them.

Because I have taken up cycling recently and am an avid follower of the TdeF and other cycling events a lot of non-cycling friends ask me about what is going on with drugs in the sport. It is the first thing that lay people associate with the sport. it really does have an image problem. Pretty soon sponsors will begin to question their investment if something is not done. Not only that but governments will stop funding development programs and then the sport will be ruined.

Unfortunately every successful cyclist and every exceptional performance will be questioned about whether it was drug enhanced. This is no way to celebrate great efforts.

The sport needs a complete overhaul from the administration all the way through to the athletes and support teams. It is currently in danger of dying a painful death at professional and elite amateur level.

In the end it won't change what I do. I'll still ride my weekend race and enjoy my training. So what do I care? Not much really, until I see the career prospects of a promising young athlete come to nought because the sport has been ruined.

What disappoints me most about the Millar affair is the total hypocrisy of the man. In the most recent issue of Procycling he is quoted as saying

"You have to understand my position. You're talking about absolute crap from this lunatic Gaumont. That's what it is and it's hard to express to people the degree of crap this is."

Well Mr Millar the crap seems to have hit the fan and landed on you!

Spider,

Indeed you have highlighted the problem – what responsible adult would allow their child to enter this sport on a professional basis ?
And you are correct, the general public think that cycling is totally corrupt.
And I have to say that the LA story is part of the problem.
When I mention in conversation that I cycle – I am invariably asked how can a guy who had cancer, is now able to win the TDF ?
Or, if the TDF is so grueling how can a guy recover and beat guys who were not ill
throughout their careers, so easily ?
I find that I have to try to defend our sport against the common sentiment “well they’re known for drug taking”.
This is the perception.
And the perception is all that matters.

You refer to sponsors as well.
Already when have seen sponsors leaving our sport – look at Mapei, Mr.Squnzi did not want his company name associated with a tainted sport.
What company would want to expose their name and product to possible allegations of cheating ?
ONCE left the sport too – allegedly, in part, because of the bad perception that this sport has.

As regards Millar – if the allegations are true, he is in serious trouble.
If he used stuff, he does have personal responsibility for taking this decision to dope but the prevailing culture in the pro ranks is also to blame.
Willy Voet said it in his book – even if an opponent is clean, a rider will always believe that his opponent is using something.
Most riders are convinced that his opponents are using stuff – maybe Millar came to believe that he needed to use something.
I refer you to Voet and Virenque.
According to Voet, Virenque was convinced that he couldn’t do well in the world road race championships and he pleaded with Voet to get him some EPO.
Voet told him that he had used too much EPO already, but Virenque was insistant.
So Voet mixed some milk and water and placed it in a syringe and told Virenque that he was giving him some EPO.
Virenque emboldened because he thought he had a shot of EPO – went out and nearly won the title (I think he finished second)

Originally posted by Spider1977
l'equippe as quoted on cyclingnews.com says that Millar has admitted to French investigators that he uses EPO. Apparently they found used vials in his accomodation.

This is the guy who had a lot to say (when doesn't he) when the Cofidis affair first broke. Now he has been exposed as a cheating hypocrite. I say he should be wiped out for life.

Stuart O'Grady must be regretting his move away from CA.

Cofidis let down Lance and now they've let down the sport. It's worse than Festina because now the sport is increasingly under the spotlight.:mad:

looks like 'YES' is the answer

Latest is that Millar has officially admitted to EPO use in the past (2001 and 2003) but denies the current charges (which begs the question why were used vials found in his flat?). He has removed himself from British Olympic selection and will face the chop from Cofidis if he repeats the admission to the team's officials.

Millar gets Olympic suspension (www.cyclingnews.com)

Following the confirmation of his admission to the use of EPO in the chambers of judge Richard Pallain on Thursday, David Millar has been handed a ban from British Cycling and is effectively out of the Athens Olympics. Millar has been preparing for the road time trial and the individual pursuit on the track at this year's Olympics. His admission to EPO use in 2001 and 2003 came as a result of a police search of his house and a lengthy interrogation in Biarritz, France last week.

"In respect of David Millar's admission to Judge Pallain, I am greatly saddened by this affair but I confirm that David Millar is suspended with immediate effect pending a further investigation and a disciplinary hearing," British Cycling chief executive Dave Brailsford told William Fotheringham of The Guardian.

Millar has not yet been handed a formal sanction from his Cofidis team, but his admission to the use of a banned substance, which in the eyes of the UCI is treated as a positive doping result, will likely be dropped by Cofidis in the same manner as Philippe Gaumont and Médéric Clain. It was Gaumont who implicated Millar after his own testimony and confession of doping, while Clain confessed to having procured certain banned substances although he denied having ever used them.

---------------------------------------------------------
See you later mate. I hope never to see you again! You are lower than a snake because you have been cheating for years while preaching about others having an unfair advantage.

Millar seems to be so open to implicate himself. His admission and the evidences against him were so easily extracted its as if he is committing a career suicide. The 2 syringes found in his apartment were hidden in a book and his reason for keeping them sounds too superfluous to be true. And now the plot thickens... he has implicated Dr. Jesus Losa as the source of the drugs he first used 3 years ago. Dr. Losa is the team doctor of Euskatel-Euskadi and Iban Mayo is a top tour contender in this year's Tour de France. I have a feeling there's more to come.

Hmm interesting - especially when you consider the two recent temporary suspensions to Euskatel riders - was it Zubeldia prior to the Dauphine and another rider prior to the tour due to high hemocrit levels.

As BOB DYLAN once said Millar is just 'another pawn in their game'

People think that it's a shame that a big name like Millar should have been busted using drugs, but occasionally, someone is only a big name because of them. This may be the case with Millar, as it was with the Olympic sprinter Ben Johnson. Maybe he wouldn't have amounted to much in cycling if he hadn't doped.

An old post, revisited. With Danilo Hondo's recent departure from the Pro Tour, David Millar's story is timely as well. The medical truth is screaming out at us from our cycling past.

Remember how strenuous it was to listen to David Millar's pathetic denials and ad hominem rants directed at the media and his Cofidis teammate Philippe Gaumont? Millar was a clean World Champion.

David has had lots of company since his great days of what turned out to be Over-Zealous Whoppers.

To be clear:
Jealous liars do not condone doping. Zealous Liars are dopers. Doping apologists deny any specific doping unless--a tearful confession is published. You know, 'solid proof' of drug addiction.

Camenzind, Hamilton, Perez, Hondo have all recently joined the exposed doper club. (membership @ 800+)

I wonder if any TDF winners were as clean as David?
Mate , go outside for a ride.Lift some weights.Have a wank.
Anything , just stop posting 5 dope threads a day and bumping ones that are 12 months old.

If you go off UCI standards, 99.9% of the human population is on some sort of "dope." Now, I'm not saying that there is not a problem in pro cycling, what I'm saying is that things like too much cafine will get you a positive result under UCI standards. They ban things like cafine, cortizone and other medications that people use on a daily basis for medical reasons. The UCI considers things like Hydroxicut, Xenedrine and other weight loss supliments as a banned substance. I'd bet that 75% of the American population use that crap! So, I'll back Flyers weak remarks to a point: "If you go off UCI standards, EVERYONE-EVERY cyclist in the whole world should be banned from ever riding a bike again because at one point in your lives, you have used a banned substance. (Hopefully you will understand that I am joking!) :D :D