Millar (in French)
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For those who read french:
http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/index.html
Cofidis has "summonded the Scottish cyclist to explain the
allegations" (follow link to "Confidis convoque Millar"
http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/20040625_091924Dev.html
is the story that CyclingNews.com quoted I think
Millar was summoned by judge Richard Pallain to a trubunal
in Nanteere"...
My French isn't good enough for me to risk posting a
translation I'm afraid.
Arthur
--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org (http://www.clune.org/) "Technolibertarians make a
philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook
"According to l'equipe the Cofidis affair is making another
come-back with the probably prosecution of David Millar. The
Scottish rider admited to having taken EPO while being
questionned by police. Empty bottles were found by police
officers at his house. Cofidis immediately announced their
intention to summon the rider to give an explaination"
A rider that is being prosecuted for doping or whom police
inquiries are being made can't start the TDF.
David Off wrote:
> "According to l'equipe the Cofidis affair is making
> another come-back with the probably prosecution of David
> Millar. The Scottish rider admited to having taken EPO
> while being questionned by police. Empty bottles were
> found by police officers at his house. Cofidis immediately
> announced their intention to summon the rider to give an
> explaination"
>
> A rider that is being prosecuted for doping or whom police
> inquiries are being made can't start the TDF.
That seems a much stronger version than is warranted by the
original French. The phrase "David Millar ..... aurait avoué
avoir consommé de l'EPO " is a rather odd "Millar would have
admitted using EPO" rather than "Millar admitted using EPO"
I'm not quite sure how we should interpret the conditional
perfect tense used here. Its usually used to indicate what
would have happened if something else had occurred which
didn't - e.g. If you had given me £10k, I would have bought
that Litespeed - and here it doesn't say what the conditions
or implied conditions were under which he would have
admitted using EPO. The same applies to the sentence about
finding EPO ampoules. It says the police would have found
EPO ampoules in his home.
Curious. Time will tell
Tony
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 18:42:52 +0100, Tony Raven wrote:
> David Off wrote:
>> "According to l'equipe the Cofidis affair is making
>> another come-back with the probably prosecution of David
>> Millar. The Scottish rider admited to having taken EPO
>> while being questionned by police. Empty bottles were
>> found by police officers at his house. Cofidis
>> immediately announced their intention to summon the rider
>> to give an explaination"
>>
>> A rider that is being prosecuted for doping or whom
>> police inquiries are being made can't start the TDF.
>
> That seems a much stronger version than is warranted by
> the original French. The phrase "David Millar ..... aurait
> avoué avoir consommé de l'EPO " is a rather odd "Millar
> would have admitted using EPO" rather than "Millar
> admitted using EPO" I'm not quite sure how we should
> interpret the conditional perfect tense used here. Its
> usually used to indicate what would have happened if
> something else had occurred which didn't - e.g. If you had
> given me £10k, I would have bought that Litespeed - and
> here it doesn't say what the conditions or implied
> conditions were under which he would have admitted using
> EPO. The same applies to the sentence about finding EPO
> ampoules. It says the police would have found EPO ampoules
> in his home.
>
> Curious. Time will tell
My gut feeling is that this is akin to our 'hurt in a
collision with a motor vehicle that allegedly hit him.
Eyewitnesses suggested the car may have mounted the
pavement' monstrosities that the UK press comes up with to
avoid anticipating court decisions.
AC
anonymous coward wrote:
>
> My gut feeling is that this is akin to our 'hurt in a
> collision with a motor vehicle that allegedly hit him.
> Eyewitnesses suggested the car may have mounted the
> pavement' monstrosities that the UK press comes up with to
> avoid anticipating court decisions.
>
I did wonder about that.
Tony
"Tony Raven" <junk@raven-family.com> wrote in message
news:2k36gdF178ap0U1@uni-berlin.de...
> That seems a much stronger version than is warranted by
> the original
French.
> The phrase "David Millar ..... aurait avoué avoir consommé
> de l'EPO " is a rather odd "Millar would have admitted
> using EPO" rather than "Millar
admitted
> using EPO" I'm not quite sure how we should interpret the
> conditional
perfect
> tense used here. Its usually used to indicate what would
> have happened if something else had occurred which didn't
> - e.g. If you had given me £10k,
I
> would have bought that Litespeed - and here it doesn't say
> what the
conditions
> or implied conditions were under which he would have
> admitted using EPO.
The
> same applies to the sentence about finding EPO ampoules.
> It says the
police
> would have found EPO ampoules in his home.
>
No, it's not about implied conditions. The second article
(which presumably doesn't originate from L'Equipe), is
saying that 'According to L'Equipe... he has admitted using
EPO'. The use of aurait - 'would have' - doesn't mean 'he
would have', it refers back to L'Equipe - 'as L'Equipe would
have it..' It's the French way of saying somebody else says,
rather than that you are saying so directly yourself (this I
have on good authority from my wife, who is French).
L'Equipe's article says directly: he acknowledged using EPO
while in custody. Sad.
Rich
Richard Goodman wrote:
>
> No, it's not about implied conditions. The second article
> (which presumably doesn't originate from L'Equipe), is
> saying that 'According to L'Equipe... he has admitted
> using EPO'. The use of aurait - 'would have' - doesn't
> mean 'he would have', it refers back to L'Equipe - 'as
> L'Equipe would have it..' It's the French way of saying
> somebody else says, rather than that you are saying so
> directly yourself (this I have on good authority from my
> wife, who is French).
>
> L'Equipe's article says directly: he acknowledged using
> EPO while in custody. Sad.
>
I was reading it on L'Equipe's website where it is quoting
the print version of L'Equipe and the quoted text uses the
same construction. So both L'Equipe on-line and L'Equipe
printed are saying "as L'Equipe would have it"? Doesn't
make sense.
«Millar aurait reconnu avoir utilisé de l'Eprex
(erythropoïetine) dans l'exercice de sa profession ce qui le
place aujourd'hui réglementairement dans la même situation
qu'un coureur contrôlé positif au regard de l'Union cycliste
internationale», écrit le journal.
http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/20040625_091924Dev.html
Tony
"Tony Raven" <junk@raven-family.com> wrote in message
news:2k3cbqF17hatnU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Richard Goodman wrote:
> >
> > No, it's not about implied conditions. The second
> > article (which
presumably
> > doesn't originate from L'Equipe), is saying that
> > 'According to
L'Equipe...
> > he has admitted using EPO'. The use of aurait - 'would
> > have' - doesn't
mean
> > 'he would have', it refers back to L'Equipe - 'as
> > L'Equipe would have
it..'
> > It's the French way of saying somebody else says, rather
> > than that you
are
> > saying so directly yourself (this I have on good
> > authority from my wife,
who
> > is French).
> >
> > L'Equipe's article says directly: he acknowledged using
> > EPO while in custody. Sad.
> >
>
> I was reading it on L'Equipe's website where it is quoting
> the print
version
> of L'Equipe and the quoted text uses the same
> construction. So both
L'Equipe
> on-line and L'Equipe printed are saying "as L'Equipe would
> have it"?
Doesn't
> make sense.
>
> «Millar aurait reconnu avoir utilisé de l'Eprex
> (erythropoïetine) dans l'exercice de sa profession ce qui
> le place aujourd'hui réglementairement
dans
> la même situation qu'un coureur contrôlé positif au regard
> de l'Union
cycliste
> internationale», écrit le journal.
> http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/20040625_091924Dev.html
>
> Tony
Yes, it's a bit strange but it's a typically French
journalistic style of construction that you see all the
time. It basically means to suggest 'as the sources would
have it', whether the source is explicit or implicit,
named or unnamed. In the paragraph quoted above, there
still has to be a source of the information, they just
don't say who it is.
Rich
Richard Goodman wrote:
> In the paragraph quoted above, there still has to be a
> source of the information, they just don't say who it is.
But if it is anything like the UK the second the Paris
copper who was questionning Millar got a chance he called a
mate at l'Equippe to break the news... for a suitable
commission of course.
I'm pretty fed-up... right before the start of the tour :-(.
Still at least I won't be eating porridge any time soon.
Richard Goodman wrote:
>
> Yes, it's a bit strange but it's a typically French
> journalistic style of construction that you see all the
> time. It basically means to suggest 'as the sources would
> have it', whether the source is explicit or implicit,
> named or unnamed. In the paragraph quoted above, there
> still has to be a source of the information, they just
> don't say who it is.
>
Well if its anything like British journalistic sources it
means we don't know anything but want to fill the space so
we'll make something up and attribute it to "sources" or
"friends of Millar".
Tony
Tony Raven wrote:
> Richard Goodman wrote:
>>
>> Yes, it's a bit strange but it's a typically French
>> journalistic style of construction that you see all the
>> time. It basically means to suggest 'as the sources would
>> have it', whether the source is explicit or implicit,
>> named or unnamed. In the paragraph quoted above, there
>> still has to be a source of the information, they just
>> don't say who it is.
>>
>
> Well if its anything like British journalistic sources it
> means we don't know anything but want to fill the space so
> we'll make something up and attribute it to "sources" or
> "friends of Millar".
>
The BBC site is now saying he was taken in for questioning
at the request of the investigating magistrate after being
accused by teammate Gaumont. He has been banned from the
Tour by Cofidis on the grounds that riders under
investigation are automatically suspended. So so far it
looks like smoke but no evidence of a fire as yet.
Tony
"Tony Raven" <junk@raven-family.com> wrote in message
news:2k3j30F179usrU2@uni-berlin.de...
> Richard Goodman wrote:
> >
> > Yes, it's a bit strange but it's a typically French
> > journalistic style
of
> > construction that you see all the time. It basically
> > means to suggest
'as
> > the sources would have it', whether the source is
> > explicit or implicit, named or unnamed. In the paragraph
> > quoted above, there still has to be
a
> > source of the information, they just don't say who
> > it is.
> >
>
> Well if its anything like British journalistic sources it
> means we don't
know
> anything but want to fill the space so we'll make
> something up and
attribute
> it to "sources" or "friends of Millar".
>
Yes, that sort of thing. According the BBC, Millar has
denied any involvement, the French press have it that he's
confessed. No doubt they each have their own sources for
that! I hope the Beeb is right! Personally I can't see why
someone with so much at stake would confess unless they knew
there was incontrovertible proof against them. Who knows
what else there might be, but the mere presence of syringes
in my room wouldn't be enough to make me confess! But if
it's true, knowing as they all did that an investigation was
going on, I would be inclined to think it incredibly stupid
to keep doing it!
Rich
Richard Goodman wrote:
> Yes, that sort of thing. According the BBC, Millar has
> denied any involvement, the French press have it that he's
> confessed. No doubt they each have their own sources for
> that! I hope the Beeb is right!
BBC also reporting the rumour that he has confessed (on
5live just now).
Personally I am past caring about pro cycling.
James
--
If I have seen further than others, it is by treading on the
toes of giants. http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/
"James Annan" <still_the_same_me@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2k3o2vF17bg4hU1@uni-berlin.de...
>
> BBC also reporting the rumour that he has confessed (on
> 5live just now).
>
Oh really? Well, the fact that there's a rumour is true, the
question is whether the rumour is true!
> Personally I am past caring about pro cycling.
I don't usually care about pro- anything, but occasionally
work up an interest if a Brit seems to be doing particularly
well at international level. So I still feel very
disappointed at this news.
Seems we'll have to wait for his lawyer's statement, before
anything 'official' comes out, according to his web site.
Rich
Tony Raven wrote:
>
> anonymous coward wrote:
> >
> > My gut feeling is that this is akin to our 'hurt in a
> > collision with a motor vehicle that allegedly hit him.
> > Eyewitnesses suggested the car may have mounted the
> > pavement' monstrosities that the UK press comes up with
> > to avoid anticipating court decisions.
> >
>
> I did wonder about that.
>
Me also. <now going OT> The major problem with our press
seems to be that while they love to trumpet from on high,
about the rights of a free press, they also seem remarkably
quiet when it comes to discussing the responsibilities which
come with such freedom.
--
Alex BMW R1150GS DIAABTCOD#3 MSWF#4 UKRMFBC#6 Ibw#35 BOB#8
http://www.team-ukrm.co.uk (http://www.team-ukrm.co.uk/) Windy's "little soldier"
Alex Ferrier wrote:
>
> Me also. <now going OT> The major problem with our press
> seems to be that while they love to trumpet from on high,
> about the rights of a free press, they also seem
> remarkably quiet when it comes to discussing the
> responsibilities which come with such freedom.
You're new to this press game I can see. They are in the
business of making money out of other peoples' lives.
Responsibility or accurate reporting doesn't come into it,
only maximising sales.
Tony
Tony Raven wrote:
>
> Alex Ferrier wrote:
> >
> > Me also. <now going OT> The major problem with our press
> > seems to be that while they love to trumpet from on
> > high, about the rights of a free press, they also seem
> > remarkably quiet when it comes to discussing the
> > responsibilities which come with such freedom.
>
> You're new to this press game I can see. They are in the
> business of
making
> money out of other peoples' lives. Responsibility or
> accurate reporting doesn't come into it, only
> maximising sales.
>
I'd just taken that for granted.
--
Alex BMW R1150GS DIAABTCOD#3 MSWF#4 UKRMFBC#6 Ibw#35 BOB#8
http://www.team-ukrm.co.uk (http://www.team-ukrm.co.uk/) Windy's "little soldier"
Richard Goodman wrote:
>
> Yes, that sort of thing. According the BBC, Millar has
> denied any involvement, the French press have it that
> he's confessed. No doubt they each have their own sources
> for that!
I doubt the BBC have any sources as they take almost no
interest in cycling. They are probably repeating
Millar's earlier denials or having trouble understanding
their AFP newsfeed.
The French source is part of the police investigation.
"David Off" <david.off_dumpthisbit_@voila.fr> wrote in message
news:40dd6340$0$776$79c14f64@nan-newsreader-04.noos.net...
> I doubt the BBC have any sources as they take almost no
> interest in cycling. They are probably repeating Millar's
> earlier denials or having trouble understanding their AFP
> newsfeed.
>
> The French source is part of the police investigation.
I think you are right - they're just making it up based on
his earlier denials. If he was going to come out with a
fresh denial it would have been quite public. Instead
nothing's being said except wait for a statement from his
lawyers (per his web site). That won't come at least until
after he's seen the magistrate in Paris next week. It is
hard to believe the 'rumour' isn't true.
Rich
Richard Goodman wrote:
>
> It is hard to believe the 'rumour' isn't true.
>
You mean like the persistent French rumours about Lance?
Tony
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