Richmond Park - Cops campaign v speeding cyclists !
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Following the introduction of the 20 mph speed limit in Richmond Park,
there is a lively correspondence in my local rag. Including one from
the Inspector of the Park Police who observes :
<<<< It is noticeable that many cyclists are now overtaking
the cars, travelling above the speed limit.
A campaign is underway to deal with them as the law
equally applies.
>>>>>>>
Further text below,
Regards, Tim
SIR - Regarding the letters from the public in your
newspaper.
Since the introduction of the new speed limit, approximately
300 warnings have been issued to drivers for exceeding this
limit. Most of them were travelling just over 30 mph.
The warning made it clear to them that any future offences
would lead to prosecution.
The warning campaign finished at the end of May and normal
daily enforcement by Patrol Officers is implemented.
The majority of drivers are complying with the new limit, or
are driving just slightly above it.
It is noticeable that many cyclists are now overtaking the
cars, travelling above the speed limit.
A campaign is underway to deal with them as the law
equally applies.
As stated by, one of your readers, some major speed
offenders still use the park roads and these offenders are
reported and brought before the local magistrates. One was
reported last week.
These high speed offenders will be targeted and dealt with.
Regarding the commercial vehicles enforcement.......
The enforcement of these offences will contine to be dealt
with on a daily basis as they form part of the overall
'Policing Plan Objectives' for Richmond Park. In addition to
this my officers deal with numerous other offences that form
part of the plan. My policing unit will also have the added
advantage of additional staff from July, ie six Police
Community Support Officers have been assigned. This will
help the unit considerably and free up staff to carry out
further enforcement of the matters raised and other matters.
. Anyone who has concerns can contact my sector officers or
myself: Sergeant Valerie Trinkwon, Sergeant Nick Byrant or
PC Kelvin Clarke.
Ron Cook Inspector (West London Royal Parks) Richmond Park
Police Office, Holly Lodge, Richmond Park
"Tim Henderson" <timhenderson@supanet.com> wrote in message
news:bae6efd7.0406270433.535df9a1@posting.google.com...
> Following the introduction of the 20 mph speed limit in
> Richmond Park, there is a lively correspondence in my
> local rag. Including one from the Inspector of the Park
> Police who observes :
>
> <<<< It is noticeable that many cyclists are now
> overtaking the cars, travelling above the speed limit.
The roadies won't be pleased ... good ;)
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elyob wrote:
>
> The roadies won't be pleased ... good ;)
>
I guess we'll now get to see whether all those who avowed
you couldn't be done if you didn't have a speedo were
right or not
Tony
On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 20:22:54 +0100, "Tony Raven"
<junk@raven-family.com> wrote:
>elyob wrote:
>>
>> The roadies won't be pleased ... good ;)
>
>I guess we'll now get to see whether all those who avowed
>you couldn't be done if you didn't have a speedo were
>right or not
Not really, because the roadies have all got them.
--
Dave...
Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. -
Mark Twain
I spoke to a road cop in the park just prior to the
introduction of the speed limit. He definately confirmed
that they WOULD fine any cyclist exceeding 20 mph. Mind you
.......they'll have to catch us first !!!!!!!!!!
Dave Kahn <dkahn400@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:<u9jud0pfe69u2t1r6rdcv96na4o738j7uv@4ax.com>...
> On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 20:22:54 +0100, "Tony Raven" <junk@raven-
> family.com> wrote:
>
> >elyob wrote:
> >>
> >> The roadies won't be pleased ... good ;)
> >
> >I guess we'll now get to see whether all those who avowed
> >you couldn't be done if you didn't have a speedo were
> >right or not
>
> Not really, because the roadies have all got them.
On 29/6/04 5:18 pm, in article
6f31d9b.0406290818.61cf253b@posting.google.com, "Paul"
<paulstafford1@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I spoke to a road cop in the park just prior to the
> introduction of the speed limit. He definately confirmed
> that they WOULD fine any cyclist exceeding 20 mph. Mind
> you .......they'll have to catch us first !!!!!!!!!!
I got stopped by a parks police officer for riding off road
in the park. Gave me a telling off and not to do it again.
That was in about 1985 or so..
..d
"Paul" <paulstafford1@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6f31d9b.0406290818.61cf253b@posting.google.com...
> I spoke to a road cop in the park just prior to the
> introduction of the speed limit. He definately confirmed
> that they WOULD fine any cyclist exceeding 20 mph. Mind
> you .......they'll have to catch us first !!!!!!!!!!
>
You're lucky! Here it's 20kph and 10kph in an effing off-
leash area for dogs! Graham
On 29 Jun 2004 09:18:51 -0700, paulstafford1@yahoo.com (Paul) wrote in
message <6f31d9b.0406290818.61cf253b@posting.google.com>:
>I spoke to a road cop in the park just prior to the
>introduction of the speed limit. He definately confirmed
>that they WOULD fine any cyclist exceeding 20 mph.
20 +/- what? And measured with what?
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
posting. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk (http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/)
88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
Washington University
Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
> On 29 Jun 2004 09:18:51 -0700, paulstafford1@yahoo.com
> (Paul) wrote in message
> <6f31d9b.0406290818.61cf253b@posting.google.com>:
>
>> I spoke to a road cop in the park just prior to the
>> introduction of the speed limit. He definately confirmed
>> that they WOULD fine any cyclist exceeding 20 mph.
>
> 20 +/- what? And measured with what?
Measured by the cop car doing 20mph behind and the roadies
zooming away! Tht'a enough evidence to convict for speeding.
a mate was stopped on the Tamsin trail a while ago (gravel
cycle track around the park limit 15mph) and told to watch
his speed by a park policeman who had clocked his speed from
the park road and followed him to richmond gate where the
track crosses the road.
pk
On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 18:03:06 +0000 (UTC), "PK"
<spam.trap100@btinternet.com> wrote in message
<cbsasq$2ko$1@titan.btinternet.com>:
>> 20 +/- what? And measured with what?
>Measured by the cop car doing 20mph behind and the roadies
>zooming away! Tht'a enough evidence to convict for
>speeding.
But 20 +/- what? Surely the limts of speedometer error are
such that prosecuting for speeds below, say, 25mph, would be
problematic? And how many people are going faster than that?
And if the cyclists are overtaking the cars, how can the
"cop car" pace them? And how many "cop cars" have
speedometers calibrrated for offences at 20mph? And how many
will be interested in a Parks matter?
I find the whole thing baffling, given that the practical
limit of most bikes in that context is only going to be a
few mph above 20 anyway!
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
posting. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk (http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/)
88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
Washington University
Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
> On 29 Jun 2004 09:18:51 -0700, paulstafford1@yahoo.com
> (Paul) wrote in message
> <6f31d9b.0406290818.61cf253b@posting.google.com>:
>
>
>>I spoke to a road cop in the park just prior to the
>>introduction of the speed limit. He definately confirmed
>>that they WOULD fine any cyclist exceeding 20 mph.
>
>
> 20 +/- what? And measured with what?
>
> Guy
Where I've seen speed limits imposed on cyclists its
done with a laser speed gun. They are accurate enough I
guess they would give you the same tolerance as they
would a motorist
Tony
On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 19:52:17 +0100, Tony Raven <junk@raven-family.com> wrote:
>Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
>> On 29 Jun 2004 09:18:51 -0700, paulstafford1@yahoo.com
>> (Paul) wrote in message
>> <6f31d9b.0406290818.61cf253b@posting.google.com>:
>>
>>>I spoke to a road cop in the park just prior to the
>>>introduction of the speed limit. He definately confirmed
>>>that they WOULD fine any cyclist exceeding 20 mph.
>>
>> 20 +/- what? And measured with what?
>
>Where I've seen speed limits imposed on cyclists its
>done with a laser speed gun. They are accurate enough I
>guess they would give you the same tolerance as they
>would a motorist
How is the *cyclist* measuring their speed? When asked "Did
you know you were speeding?" you can quite honestly say
"No." unless you have a cycle computer, that's correctly
configured, and that's not compulsory.
Thing about speed limits is a car doing 20mph can do far
more damage than a cycle doing 20mph, and cycles have
different stopping distances to cars as well, so the limit
itself is totally meaningless when applied to bikes, let
alone cyclists being unable to tell how fast they're
actually going.
Frink
--
Doctor J. Frink : 'Rampant Ribald Ringtail' See his mind
here : http://www.cmp.liv.ac.uk/frink/ Annoy his mind here :
pjf at cmp dot liv dot ack dot ook "No sir, I didn't like
it!" - Mr Horse
"Just zis Guy, you know?" <outlook.bugs@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:e1c3e09107857t5e9hcfs0c31gk9382321@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 18:03:06 +0000 (UTC), "PK"
> <spam.trap100@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> <cbsasq$2ko$1@titan.btinternet.com>:
>
> >> 20 +/- what? And measured with what?
>
> >Measured by the cop car doing 20mph behind and the
> >roadies zooming away! Tht'a enough evidence to convict
> >for speeding.
>
> But 20 +/- what? Surely the limts of speedometer error are
> such that prosecuting for speeds below, say, 25mph, would
> be problematic? And how many people are going faster than
> that? And if the cyclists are overtaking the cars, how can
> the "cop car" pace them? And how many "cop cars" have
> speedometers calibrrated for offences at 20mph? And how
> many will be interested in a Parks matter?
..
These cops aren't ordinary cops. I think you'll find they're
Royal Parks police. When I last went round there years ago
there were always issus with motorists using the place as a
short cut, and also issues with deer encroaching on the
roads during maybe the rutting season. Maybe in order to
placate the motorists they'e having to be seen to be fair.
But there are certainly on or two long stretches depending
on what direction you're circuiting the park where its
easily possible to exceed 30 mph.
Curious
...
>
> I find the whole thing baffling, given that the practical
> limit of most bikes in that context is only going to be a
> few mph above 20 anyway!
>
> Guy
> --
> May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle
> after posting. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk (http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/)
>
> 88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
> Washington
University
Doctor J. Frink wrote:
>
>
> How is the *cyclist* measuring their speed? When asked
> "Did you know you were speeding?" you can quite honestly
> say "No." unless you have a cycle computer, that's
> correctly configured, and that's not compulsory.
>
Not relevant. Ignorance of the fact you are breaking the law
is not a defence that is accepted I'm afraid. Just the same
as "Did you know you were over the drink drive limit?" "No,
officer I didn't" "Well I'm arresting you......"
Tony
Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 18:03:06 +0000 (UTC), "PK"
> <spam.trap100@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> <cbsasq$2ko$1@titan.btinternet.com>:
>
>>> 20 +/- what? And measured with what?
>
>> Measured by the cop car doing 20mph behind and the
>> roadies zooming away! Tht'a enough evidence to convict
>> for speeding.
>
> But 20 +/- what? Surely the limts of speedometer error are
> such that prosecuting for speeds below, say, 25mph, would
> be problematic? And how many people are going faster than
> that? And if the cyclists are overtaking the cars, how can
> the "cop car" pace them? And how many "cop cars" have
> speedometers calibrrated for offences at 20mph? And how
> many will be interested in a Parks matter?
>
> I find the whole thing baffling, given that the practical
> limit of most bikes in that context is only going to be a
> few mph above 20 anyway!
not on the hills in the park!
I regularly do 20 mph plus on my mtb on the gravel track
when the park is empty, on the road speeds well inexcess of
the 20mph limit are easy.
pk
"Doctor J. Frink" <frink@homer.cmp.liv.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnce3fac.n5h.frink@homer.cmp.liv.ac.uk...
>
> How is the *cyclist* measuring their speed? When asked
> "Did you know you were speeding?" you can quite honestly
> say "No." unless you have a cycle computer, that's
> correctly configured, and that's not compulsory.
There are or at least used to be standard times for doing
circuits around Richmond park. When you take account of the
gradients etc those guys could tell you their likely maximum
speeds as readily as the weight of their bikes.
With a bit of mathematical wizardry, probably all the cops
need do is sit in their car and time the laps.
Curious
>
> Frink
>
> --
> Doctor J. Frink : 'Rampant Ribald Ringtail' See his mind
> here : http://www.cmp.liv.ac.uk/frink/ Annoy his mind here
> : pjf at cmp dot liv dot ack dot ook "No sir, I didn't
> like it!" - Mr Horse
Dr Curious wrote:
>
> These cops aren't ordinary cops. I think you'll find
> they're Royal Parks police. When I last went round there
> years ago there were always issus with motorists using the
> place as a short cut, and also issues with deer
> encroaching on the roads during maybe the rutting season.
> Maybe in order to placate the motorists they'e having to
> be seen to be fair. But there are certainly on or two long
> stretches depending on what direction you're circuiting
> the park where its easily possible to exceed 30 mph.
>
There has been extensive discussion of the need for speed
limits in the park and the local community voted strongly in
favour of it. The Park is intended to be for relaxation,
recreation and wildlife, not a convenient high speed short
cut for commuters.
Tony
On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:12:11 +0100, Tony Raven <junk@raven-family.com>
wrote in message <2kdt8bF194rdU1@uni-berlin.de>:
>Ignorance of the fact you are breaking the law is not a
>defence that is accepted I'm afraid. Just the same as "Did
>you know you were over the drink drive limit?" "No, officer
>I didn't" "Well I'm arresting you......"
Although in that case the driver presumably knew he'd
been drinking.
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
posting. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk (http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/)
88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
Washington University
Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:12:11 +0100, Tony Raven <junk@raven-
> family.com> wrote in message <2kdt8bF194rdU1@uni-
> berlin.de>:
>
>
>>Ignorance of the fact you are breaking the law is not a
>>defence that is accepted I'm afraid. Just the same as "Did
>>you know you were over the drink drive limit?" "No,
>>officer I didn't" "Well I'm arresting you......"
>
>
> Although in that case the driver presumably knew he'd been
> drinking.
>
As in the other case he presumably knew he was not
stationary. So one didn't know how fast he was going
relative to the speed limit and the other didn't know how
high his blood alcohol was relative to the drink
limit.
Tony
On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:25:13 +0100, Tony Raven <junk@raven-family.com>
wrote in message <2kdu0pF17lgjU2@uni-berlin.de>:
>> Although in that case the driver presumably knew he'd
>> been drinking.
>As in the other case he presumably knew he was not
>stationary. So one didn't know how fast he was going
>relative to the speed limit and the other didn't know how
>high his blood alcohol was relative to the drink
>limit.
I thought of addressing thatin the previous post, but
thought the point was so obvious as to be superfluous.
Apparently not.
While it is possible to proceed through the park without
the consumption of alcohol, it is not possible to do so
without moving.
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
posting. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk (http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/)
88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
Washington University
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