On the roads - how often per ride - near misses?

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I've just started riding on the roads again and off the bike
trail, and it seems like every time I go out there are
several 'near misses'.

People pulling out of driveways not looking, people at four-
way stop signs who spend their 'stop time' looking down and
talking on the cell phone and then just pulling out not even
looking not noticing that now "HEY there's a bike right in
front of their car".

People driving down the center of the road not even looking
up at all for extended periods of time, huge trucks just
'taking over the road' roaring around the corner and making
you go up on the sidewalk.

Sheesh, is this typical? It's hard to even get in a decent
sustained pedal going for all the avoidance and hitting the
brakes, and swerving and almost coming to a complete stop.

We went out for a ride in the country in the car and people
just come flying over the tops of hills in the center of the
road, and then seeing the approaching car go to their far
right - had a biker been pedalling there, he'd have been run
off the road.

Jeeze, I don't remember it being this 'scary' when I was
riding as a college student.

I don't mind a little bit of danger - but nearly being
killed or run over like 5 times on every ride? I'm a
large guy and I'm wearing a red shirt, too - you'd think
hard to miss. ;-)

-Badger

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 17:09:37 -0400, Badger_South <Badger@South.net>
wrote in message <5edud0dki1vsth2iju3bd77tonm6ps14hk@4ax.com>:

>I don't mind a little bit of danger - but nearly being
>killed or run over like 5 times on every ride? I'm a large
>guy and I'm wearing a red shirt, too - you'd think hard to
>miss. ;-)

And yet they manage every time :-D

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
posting. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk (http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/)

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at
Washington University

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 22:16:29 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
<outlook.bugs@microsoft.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 17:09:37 -0400, Badger_South
><Badger@South.net> wrote in message
><5edud0dki1vsth2iju3bd77tonm6ps14hk@4ax.com>:
>
>>I don't mind a little bit of danger - but nearly being
>>killed or run over like 5 times on every ride? I'm a large
>>guy and I'm wearing a red shirt, too - you'd think hard to
>>miss. ;-)
>
>And yet they manage every time :-D
>
>Guy

Reminds me of the old George Carlin joke. "When two planes
pass too close in the sky they call it a 'near miss'? A
'near miss'? Isn't that really a 'hit'?"

-B Hoping you always have only near-hits.

Badger_South wrote:
|| I've just started riding on the roads again and off the
|| bike trail, and it seems like every time I go out there
|| are several 'near misses'.
||
|| People pulling out of driveways not looking, people at
|| four-way stop signs who spend their 'stop time' looking
|| down and talking on the cell phone and then just pulling
|| out not even looking not noticing that now "HEY there's a
|| bike right in front of their car".
||
|| People driving down the center of the road not even
|| looking up at all for extended periods of time, huge
|| trucks just 'taking over the road' roaring around the
|| corner and making you go up on the sidewalk.
||
|| Sheesh, is this typical? It's hard to even get in a
|| decent sustained pedal going for all the avoidance and
|| hitting the brakes, and swerving and almost coming to a
|| complete stop.
||
|| We went out for a ride in the country in the car and
|| people just come flying over the tops of hills in the
|| center of the road, and then seeing the approaching car
|| go to their far right - had a biker been pedalling there,
|| he'd have been run off the road.
||
|| Jeeze, I don't remember it being this 'scary' when I was
|| riding as a college student.
||
|| I don't mind a little bit of danger - but nearly being
|| killed or run over like 5 times on every ride? I'm a
|| large guy and I'm wearing a red shirt, too - you'd think
|| hard to miss. ;-)
||
|| -Badger

I leave home at first light. Sunday morning seems the best
day, too. More people not working and church is later on.
Riding country roads helps a lot.

It is very typical for people to not be paying
attention as they enter a road...too many distractions.
That's why YOU have to pay extra attention and
anticipate that they won't be.

> I'm a large guy and I'm wearing a red shirt, too - you'd
> think hard to miss. ;-)

You do realise that red/green colourblindness is the most
common type. here's you thinking you are nice and bright
when the colourblind lot almost hitting you are seeing you
as a sort of nondescript shade of muddybrown ;-)

Cheers, helen s

--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam-- to get
correct one remove fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

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is switched off--

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 18:12:16 -0400, "Roger Zoul" <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>|| I don't mind a little bit of danger - but nearly being
>|| killed or run over like 5 times on every ride? I'm a
>|| large guy and I'm wearing a red shirt, too - you'd think
>|| hard to miss. ;-)
>||
>|| -Badger
>
>I leave home at first light. Sunday morning seems the best
>day, too. More people not working and church is later on.
>Riding country roads helps a lot.
>
>It is very typical for people to not be paying attention
>as they enter a road...too many distractions. That's why
>YOU have to pay extra attention and anticipate that they
>won't be.

Yer a preachin' to the damn choir, Rog.

What I need to do is get a ridin' buddy, and send 'im on
ahead a me. Maybe soak 'im in lighter fluid to make 'im
dayum hard ta miss. ;-p

-B Wanted: Ridin' buddy. Human Torch preferred.

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 17:09:37 -0400, Badger_South <Badger@South.net>
wrote:

>
>I've just started riding on the roads again and off the
>bike trail, and it seems like every time I go out there are
>several 'near misses'.
>

It's been my experience that the first time I get on the
road after a long absence, I feel like I have a lot of
"near misses".

I have begun to suspect that the perception is due more to
the fact that I am somehow less confident on the road after
an absence.

-Luigi

www.livejournal.com/users/ouij photos, rants, raves

Look up John Allen's "Street Smarts" on his webpage. Read it
and apply the principles. Or take a LAB Road1 course.

Balancin' ain't bikin'!

--

alan

Anyone who believes in a liberal media has never read the
"Daily Oklahoman."

"Badger_South" <Badger@South.net> wrote in message
news:5edud0dki1vsth2iju3bd77tonm6ps14hk@4ax.com...
>
> I've just started riding on the roads again and off the
> bike trail, and it seems like every time I go out there
> are several 'near misses'.

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 17:09:37 -0400, Badger_South <Badger@South.net>
wrote:
>I've just started riding on the roads again and off the
>bike trail, and it seems like every time I go out there are
>several 'near misses'.
>
>People pulling out of driveways not looking, people at four-
>way stop signs who spend their 'stop time' looking down and
>talking on the cell phone and then just pulling out not
>even looking not noticing that now "HEY there's a bike
>right in front of their car".
>
>People driving down the center of the road not even looking
>up at all for extended periods of time, huge trucks just
>'taking over the road' roaring around the corner and making
>you go up on the sidewalk.
>
>Sheesh, is this typical? It's hard to even get in a decent
>sustained pedal going for all the avoidance and hitting the
>brakes, and swerving and almost coming to a complete stop.

How often? Once a week to once a month for me.

At the risk of inciting a flame war, check on Effective
Cycling and its variants. I usually (but not always) find
there's something I could have done better.

The ones that bug me the worst are the people who can't
change to another lane (on 5-7 lane roads, usually!) to pass
me. For them, if I've taken the lane, gotten into the right
wheel rut or so, I'll usually force them into another lane.
Something about breaking the plane of that dashed white line
persuades these drivers not to brush me into the gutter. Out
in the lane, right hooks are more rare, and apparently I'm
more visible to potential left hookers.

I actually like four way stops. It's really rare a driver
doesn't wave me through, and only once in the last five
years did one ignore me on a bike.

But watch out for little old ladies who can't see a XXL "Big
Bird yellow" jersey at noon.

Pat

Email address works as is.

"Badger_South" <Badger@South.net> wrote in message
news:5edud0dki1vsth2iju3bd77tonm6ps14hk@4ax.com...
>
> I've just started riding on the roads again and off the
> bike trail, and it seems like every time I go out there
> are several 'near misses'.
>
> People pulling out of driveways not looking, people at four-
> way stop signs who spend their 'stop time' looking down
> and talking on the cell phone and then just pulling out
> not even looking not noticing that now "HEY there's
a
> bike right in front of their car".
>
> People driving down the center of the road not even
> looking up at all for extended periods of time, huge
> trucks just 'taking over the road' roaring around the
> corner and making you go up on the sidewalk.
>
> Sheesh, is this typical? It's hard to even get in a decent
> sustained pedal going for all the avoidance and hitting
> the brakes, and swerving and
almost
> coming to a complete stop.
>
> We went out for a ride in the country in the car and
> people just come flying over the tops of hills in the
> center of the road, and then seeing the approaching car go
> to their far right - had a biker been pedalling there,
> he'd have been run off the road.
>
> Jeeze, I don't remember it being this 'scary' when I was
> riding as a college student.
>
> I don't mind a little bit of danger - but nearly being
> killed or run over like 5 times on every ride? I'm a large
> guy and I'm wearing a red shirt, too - you'd think hard to
> miss. ;-)
>
> -Badger

Where do you ride?

I used to ride in a rapidly-growing rural to suburban
area. I'd count the average daily incidents at around one
every other day. I'm a high-mileage rider (>10,000 per
average year).

I recently moved to a VERY rural area ... so rural that you
don't see cell phones 'cuz there's no service. I can do a 50
mile ride and count the cars that pass me in my lane on one
hand. It's awesome! I'm in greater danger from wildlife. I
often ride into a nearby state park and there's a fast
descent with woods on each side. I've had deer bound out
right in front of me that have nearly taken me out. One day
I spooked a couple of goats that I didn't see feeding in a
ditch across the road from their "home." When I spooked
them, they just about took me out making for safety at home.
I DID get hit in the face by a chicken that "flew" up out of
the road one day as I passed by a little flock milling
around in the oncoming lane. Fortunately, it was a glancing
blow. And just yesterday, I had a friend along and a
snapping turtle that we estimated to be about 35 pounds was
crossing the road ahead. When we stopped near it, it went
into attack mode. They're quite fast and it almost got hold
of my friends front wheel before he could jerk it back. That
would have been interesting. Instead of a snakebite flat ...
a turtlebite flat.

Bob C.

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 00:57:15 GMT, "alan" <news2@alansmithee.mailshell.com>
wrote:

>Look up John Allen's "Street Smarts" on his webpage. Read
>it and apply the principles. Or take a LAB Road1 course.
>
>Balancin' ain't bikin'!

Don't think it's that I don't know how to ride defensively.
Just saying I'm seeing lots of lousy and inattentive
drivers. IOW, I'm not almost getting hit due to any
inattention on -my- part. I'm plenty aware. I've looked
through all the courses and principles, and follow them.
Again, I'm not having trouble riding on the road, knowing
where and how to take the lane or corner. Maybe it is as
Luigi has said and it's somewhat due to lack of recent
experience on the roads after a 20 year absence. Or it could
be that the drivers in my 5 mile radius/neighborhood are
total buttheads and shouldn't be allowed behind the wheel of
a car - a real possibility!

Thanks for the reply! ;-)

-B

"Badger_South" <Badger@South.net> wrote in message
news:5edud0dki1vsth2iju3bd77tonm6ps14hk@4ax.com...
>
> I've just started riding on the roads again and off the
> bike trail, and it seems like every time I go out there
> are several 'near misses'.

Riding in traffic requires 100% of your attention 100% of
the time. Many of us aren't used to devoting this level of
concentration to anything, so it feels strange and you tend
to notice everything.

After a while it seems more normal. Watching and avoiding
the drivers becomes an acquired skill. It still requires the
same concentration, but it doesn't feel strange and new.

Overconfidence then becomes a problem. No matter how many
stupid things they do, they're always coming up with new
ones you haven't seen before. Don't get lulled into
complacency.

RichC

"Patrick Lamb" <pdl678NOSPAM@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:pkuud01bkqv6aq50er025r1c0ciuruub2e@4ax.com...

> The ones that bug me the worst are the people who can't
> change to another lane (on 5-7 lane roads, usually!) to
> pass me. For them, if I've taken the lane, gotten into the
> right wheel rut or so, I'll usually force them into
> another lane.

There are lots of drivers who just don't like to change
lanes. I've noticed this while driving, too; as I slow to
make a right turn from a 4-lane road, sometimes a driver
right behind me will slow almost to a stop rather than merge
left to pass me in the left lane -- even though there's
plenty of margin.

At the risk of bringing the wrath of God or Her minions down
on my head, I observe that these drivers are nearly always
women. (It's a phenomenon I've been paying attention to for
some years, for no particular reason.)

RichC

Badger_South <Badger@south.net> wrote:
> Don't think it's that I don't know how to ride
> defensively. Just saying I'm seeing lots of lousy and
> inattentive drivers. IOW, I'm not almost getting hit due
> to any inattention on -my- part. I'm plenty aware. I've
> looked through all the courses and principles, and follow
> them. Again, I'm not having trouble riding on the road,
> knowing where and how to take the lane or corner. Maybe it
> is as Luigi has said and it's somewhat due to lack of
> recent experience on the roads after a 20 year absence. Or
> it could be that the drivers in my 5 mile
> radius/neighborhood are total buttheads and shouldn't be
> allowed behind the wheel of a car - a real possibility!

aren't you in the denver metro? well, if so, don't feel so
bad .. whenever i'm riding out there odds are i have a few
close calls or two. a bit higher than most other places. in
general the cowboy west seems to have less respect for
cyclists who dare to uses the roads.

in my favorite aurora, co close call someone threw an empty
pop can at me after honking several times. i flipped 'em off
so they pulled ahead a few lengths and *SLAMMED* on the
brakes (30 to 0 in a few seconds). had my rear wheel a foot
or more in the air when i stopped. they took off.

fun ..

something very similiar happened to me in boise a few weeks
back and this time i was able to get the police involved.
interesting lesson. in idaho they won't even talk to you
unless you have *BOTH* the license plate and can id the
driver in a line up (the latter is their criteria). i had
followed the guy into the parking lot to have .. umm, words
with him but had i just let him go i could never have id'd
him and couldn't have done a thing.

people drive car get stupid. treat like dumb children. also
maybe need to wake 'em up . that simple.
--
david reuteler reuteler@visi.com

Badger_South wrote:

> I've just started riding on the roads again and off the
> bike trail, and it seems like every time I go out there
> are several 'near misses'.
>
> People pulling out of driveways not looking, people at four-
> way stop signs who spend their 'stop time' looking down
> and talking on the cell phone and then just pulling out
> not even looking not noticing that now "HEY there's a bike
> right in front of their car".
>
> People driving down the center of the road not even
> looking up at all for extended periods of time, huge
> trucks just 'taking over the road' roaring around the
> corner and making you go up on the sidewalk.
>
> Sheesh, is this typical?

Well, it's certainly not for me, or for the folks I
ride with.

You've got to be aware of possible motorist mistakes, and
you've got to control certain situations, but it's easy to
do. Having a "near miss" that's serious enough to scare me
is a very, very rare experience.

People pulling out of drives without looking? I'm always
looking at any potentially moving car. I yell if they are
backing toward me. I yell loud. They stop.

At four way stops, I give hand signals to confirm if they've
got the right of way, and I'm careful to "telegraph" when
I'm taking my right of way, partly by staring them in the
face. I do it all strictly according to the rules. And
again, I yell if there's a problem.

When necessary to prevent a truck "taking over the road" I
ride far enough left. Come to think of it, riding far enough
left is part of my defense against most of what you listed.

If we define a "near miss" as "having to yell," then I'd say
it happens to me about once every fifty rides. And honestly,
most of those never come within 20 feet of me.

IOW, near misses are rare.

--
--------------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove
rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 22:13:21 -0400, "psycholist" <technico@wctel.net>
wrote:

>> I don't mind a little bit of danger - but nearly being
>> killed or run over like 5 times on every ride? I'm a
>> large guy and I'm wearing a red shirt, too - you'd think
>> hard to miss. ;-)
>>
>> -Badger
>
>Where do you ride?

Very high traffic University town (it seems to me),
central Va.

>I used to ride in a rapidly-growing rural to suburban
>area. I'd count the average daily incidents at around one
>every other day. I'm a high-mileage rider (>10,000 per
>average year).

Wow. Cool animal stories. I've only encountered one deer in
the last 10 months. _Man_ are those things hyoouge when
you're on a bike!

Unfortunately no areas around here rural enough not see many
cars - they're everywhere. When I first started riding in
the 60s and 70s you could ride the entire town on
Thanksgiving break and not see one car. Now it's wall-to-
wall SUVs - Albemarle county, home to movie stars and other
nouveau riche, heh.

Best, -Badger

On 28 Jun 2004 03:00:47 GMT, David Reuteler <reuteler@visi.com> wrote:

>Badger_South <Badger@south.net> wrote:
>> Don't think it's that I don't know how to ride
>> defensively. Just saying I'm seeing lots of lousy and
>> inattentive drivers. IOW, I'm not almost getting hit due
>> to any inattention on -my- part. I'm plenty aware. I've
>> looked through all the courses and principles, and follow
>> them. Again, I'm not having trouble riding on the road,
>> knowing where and how to take the lane or corner. Maybe
>> it is as Luigi has said and it's somewhat due to lack of
>> recent experience on the roads after a 20 year absence.
>> Or it could be that the drivers in my 5 mile
>> radius/neighborhood are total buttheads and shouldn't be
>> allowed behind the wheel of a car - a real possibility!
>
>aren't you in the denver metro? well, if so, don't feel so
>bad .. whenever i'm riding out there odds are i have a few
>close calls or two. a bit higher than most other places. in
>general the cowboy west seems to have less respect for
>cyclists who dare to uses the roads.

I'm in the Virginia Piedmont area - T. Jefferson's country
near Univ. of
Va. I've had friends from far and wide remark how bad the
drivers are here. Lots of rich tiny white chicks in
Suburbans barely able to see over the dashboard, talking
on cellphones, heh.

I think Im just going through a 'hypersensitive' phase and
hope I'll adjust soonest.

Stay safe out there, buddy.

-Badger

>
>in my favorite aurora, co close call someone threw an empty
>pop can at me after honking several times. i flipped 'em
>off so they pulled ahead a few lengths and *SLAMMED* on the
>brakes (30 to 0 in a few seconds). had my rear wheel a foot
>or more in the air when i stopped. they took off.
>
>fun ..
>
>something very similiar happened to me in boise a few weeks
>back and this time i was able to get the police involved.
>interesting lesson. in idaho they won't even talk to you
>unless you have *BOTH* the license plate and can id the
>driver in a line up (the latter is their criteria). i had
>followed the guy into the parking lot to have .. umm, words
>with him but had i just let him go i could never have id'd
>him and couldn't have done a thing.
>
>people drive car get stupid. treat like dumb children. also
>maybe need to wake 'em up . that simple.

On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 23:11:46 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkrygow@mousepotato.com> wrote:

>> People driving down the center of the road not even
>> looking up at all for extended periods of time, huge
>> trucks just 'taking over the road' roaring around the
>> corner and making you go up on the sidewalk.
>>
>> Sheesh, is this typical?
>
>Well, it's certainly not for me, or for the folks I
>ride with.
>
>You've got to be aware of possible motorist mistakes, and
>you've got to control certain situations, but it's easy to
>do. Having a "near miss" that's serious enough to scare me
>is a very, very rare experience.

Yeah, I understand. Um, I'm not trying to imply biking is
dangerous, Frank, although it might seem like it to me as a
'street noob'. I believe it to be a relatively safe
activity and all that. It's just kinda freaking me out
right now, I guess.

Best,

-Badger

Badger_South wrote:
> I've just started riding on the roads again and off the
> bike trail, and it seems like every time I go out there
> are several 'near misses'.

{snip}

I've been noticing lately that "work vehicles" seem to buzz
me a lot more closely and often than "civilian" ones. Cabs,
busses, city trucks, trades vehicles (plumbers, gardeners,
etc.) are perhaps more resentful of a guy out for a bike
ride in the middle of the day? That's my theory, anyway...

Bill "screw 'em, I'm out there" S.

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 04:35:34 GMT, "S o r n i"
<sorni@bite-me.san.rr.com> wrote:

>Badger_South wrote:
>> I've just started riding on the roads again and off the
>> bike trail, and it seems like every time I go out there
>> are several 'near misses'.
>
>{snip}
>
>
>I've been noticing lately that "work vehicles" seem to buzz
>me a lot more closely and often than "civilian" ones. Cabs,
>busses, city trucks, trades vehicles (plumbers, gardeners,
>etc.) are perhaps more resentful of a guy out for a bike
>ride in the middle of the day? That's my theory, anyway...
>

In London, I had a healthy respect for the black cabs.
They'd pass closely, but I could usually count on them to
hold a steady line and recognize me in traffic--two things
that City gents buzzing down The Strand in their BMWs can
most certainly NOT be counted on to do. Tradesmen's infamous
White Vans were however uniformly awful in how they treated
cyclists....

Stateside, I haven't noticed much difference, except with
police and fire vehicles--those two are usually extremely
good to me.

-Luigi

>Bill "screw 'em, I'm out there" S.