bike in bits but ... (tales of a n00bie bike fixer)
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... but still feeling proud of self.
In an attempt sort out the Mysterious Knocking Noise that
started a few days ago, I decided to investigate my rear
hub. We haven't done hubs in bike maintenance class yet so I
had very little idea what I was doing. Armed with my Haynes
Bike Book and a borrowed cone spanner, I got the thing off
and found that a bearing cage [1] had disintegrated. It's
the one on the sprocket side, and I don't see any way to
replace it without taking the sprockets off. Sprocket set
removal is graded '5 spanners' by Haynes and involves more
tools I haven't got. So CrapBike is off the road and
backwheel will be visiting LBS tomorrow.
Nevertheless I feel quietly smug because 1 - at least I
tried to fix things myself (until a couple of months ago I
wouldn't've tried to take back wheel off meself and didn't
know that hubs are called hubs) 2 - the thought of the bike
being out of action for a couple of days feels so much of an
invconvenience, shows how much going by bike has become my
default option.
Audrey
[1] I think that's what they're callled? hadn't heard of
them before reading of bearing cages and their
disintegration in u.r.c..
--
email = audmad aaatttt hhhottt mmmaailll dddoottt ccccoommm
On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 22:30:36 +0100, in
<paeud0dtqb68q5kf6jsk1sh30mrtca048k@4ax.com>, audrey <me@privacy.net>
wrote:
>... but still feeling proud of self.
>
>In an attempt sort out the Mysterious Knocking Noise that
>started a few days ago, I decided to investigate my rear
>hub. We haven't done hubs in bike maintenance class yet so
>I had very little idea what I was doing. Armed with my
>Haynes Bike Book and a borrowed cone spanner, I got the
>thing off and found that a bearing cage [1] had
>disintegrated. It's the one on the sprocket side, and I
>don't see any way to replace it without taking the
>sprockets off. Sprocket set removal is graded '5 spanners'
>by Haynes and involves more tools I haven't got. So
>CrapBike is off the road and backwheel will be visiting LBS
>tomorrow.
I'm sure other URC folk will correct me if I am wrong
here but I'm sure you can replace the bearings with free
(i.e. non-caged) ones. This can be done without removing
the sprockets with the aid of a pair of tweezers or the
lid from a cheap biro. Use plenty of clean grease to hold
the bearings in place and stop them falling out all over
the place.
Although learning to remove cassettes/freewheels is a good
skill to learn.
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On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 22:30:36 +0100, in
<paeud0dtqb68q5kf6jsk1sh30mrtca048k@4ax.com>, audrey <me@privacy.net>
wrote:
>spanner, I got the thing off and found that a bearing cage
>[1] had disintegrated. It's the one on the sprocket side,
>and I don't see any way to replace it without taking the
>sprockets off. Sprocket set removal is graded '5 spanners'
>by Haynes and involves more tools I
I'm sure other URC folk will correct me if I am wrong here
but I'm sure you can replace the bearings with free (i.e.
non-caged) ones. This can be done without removing the
sprockets with the aid of a pair of tweezers or the lid from
a cheap biro. Use plenty of clean grease to hold the
bearings in place and stop them falling out all over the
place. This of course assumes that the disintegrated cage is
sufficiently broken to remove in the first place.
Although learning to remove cassettes/freewheels is a good
skill to learn...
--
DISCLAIMER: My email box is private property.Email which
appears in my inbox is mine to do what I like with. Anything
which is sent to me (whether intended or not) may, if I so
desire, form a legal and binding contract.
On 27/6/04 10:30 pm, in article paeud0dtqb68q5kf6jsk1sh30mrtca048k@4ax.com,
"audrey" <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> ... but still feeling proud of self.
>
> In an attempt sort out the Mysterious Knocking Noise that
> started a few days ago, I decided to investigate my rear
> hub. We haven't done hubs in bike maintenance class yet so
> I had very little idea what I was doing. Armed with my
> Haynes Bike Book and a borrowed cone spanner, I got the
> thing off and found that a bearing cage [1] had
> disintegrated. It's the one on the sprocket side, and I
> don't see any way to replace it without taking the
> sprockets off.
Are you sure it is a caged bearing? Maybe I am out of date
but I didn't think the hub bearings had cages as they would
be very difficult to manipulate.
I'd be surprised if the hub bearings would give a knocking
sound.. more of a crunch than a knock.
> Sprocket set removal is graded '5 spanners' by Haynes and
> involves more tools I haven't got. So CrapBike is off the
> road and backwheel will be visiting LBS tomorrow.
You don't need to remove the sprockets. It makes it a bit
easier but is not strictly necessary.
> Nevertheless I feel quietly smug because 1 - at least I
> tried to fix things myself (until a couple of months ago I
> wouldn't've tried to take back wheel off meself and didn't
> know that hubs are called hubs)
Well done..
> 2 - the thought of the bike being out of action for a
> couple of days feels so much of an invconvenience, shows
> how much going by bike has become my default option.
You've only got the one bike? Time to get another for when
the first is out of action..
> [1] I think that's what they're callled? hadn't heard of
> them before reading of bearing cages and their
> disintegration in u.r.c..
You typically will only get bearing cages where you can
completely separate the bearing races.. ie headset,
bottom bracket etc. IMBW but hubs don't usually have
caged bearings.
..d
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:08:54 +0100, Richard Bates
<usenet01@artybee.net> wrote:
>
>I'm sure other URC folk will correct me if I am wrong here
>but I'm sure you can replace the bearings with free (i.e.
>non-caged) ones. This can be done without removing the
>sprockets with the aid of a pair of tweezers or the lid
>from a cheap biro. Use plenty of clean grease to hold the
>bearings in place and stop them falling out all over the
>place. This of course assumes that the disintegrated cage
>is sufficiently broken to remove in the first place.
>
Oh fab. Would it be the same number (7) and size of bearings
as were in the cage? Have recovered all of them, so if it's
the same no. I can be going again in no time.
disintegrated cage is so disintegrated, if it wasn't for
there being one on the other side, I'd have no idea there
was one there in the first place. Tho I'd be wondering what
all these teeny shards of rusty metal were for ...
>Although learning to remove cassettes/freewheels is a good
>skill to learn...
True, and one to which I aspire in time. However for now it
breaks my Bike Fixing Rules of Thumb. I will only attempt
tasks where either:
- I've already had a go in bike maint class OR
- I have to borrow no more than 1 specialist tool [1]
So, if I've never done it before and it's a 2-tool or more
job, it's off to the LBS.
Thanks, Richard,
A
[1] from bike mad and tool mad neighbour, ideal combination
--
email = audmad aaatttt hhhottt mmmaailll dddoottt ccccoommm
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:23:18 +0100, David Martin
<d.m.a.martin@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>Are you sure it is a caged bearing? Maybe I am out of date
>but I didn't think the hub bearings had cages as they would
>be very difficult to manipulate.
>
Pretty sure, because there's one on the other side, and also
there were tiny bits of rusty metal everywhere.
>I'd be surprised if the hub bearings would give a knocking
>sound.. more of a crunch than a knock.
>
It's definitely a knock, but by a process of elimination, I
can't think what else could be causing it. It's nothing
visible/external. Any ideas as to cause of Mysterious
Knocking Sound gratefully received
:-)
>
>> 2 - the thought of the bike being out of action for a
>> couple of days feels so much of an invconvenience, shows
>> how much going by bike has become my default option.
>
>You've only got the one bike? Time to get another for when
>the first is out of action..
>
We are a 2 bike family but other half needs his most
days too (we're about the same size so borrowing each
others is a possibility). We have no room for more
bikes, sadly, our narrow hall is already well nigh
impassible with 2 adult bikes, 1 child bike, assorted
trikes, skateboards, rollerskates etc. And that's before
soon-to-be-purchased trailer bike arrives (I think it
will have to be wall mounted).
thanks David
A
--
email = audmad aaatttt hhhottt mmmaailll dddoottt ccccoommm
Richard Bates wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Jun 2004 22:30:36 +0100, in
> <paeud0dtqb68q5kf6jsk1sh30mrtca048k@4ax.com>, audrey
> <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>>spanner, I got the thing off and found that a bearing cage
>>[1] had disintegrated. It's the one on the sprocket side,
>>and I don't see any way to replace it without taking the
>>sprockets off. Sprocket set removal is graded '5 spanners'
>>by Haynes and involves more tools I
>
> I'm sure other URC folk will correct me if I am wrong here
> but I'm sure you can replace the bearings with free (i.e.
> non-caged) ones. This can be done without removing the
> sprockets with the aid of a pair of tweezers or the lid
> from a cheap biro.
I did it with a be-gloved finger covered in grease. The ball-
bearings stick to it nicely, then you kind of scrape them
off into the bearing race.
--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/ "I was an angry
young man in need of an icon and Leonid Brezhnev fell short
on several counts" -- Mark Steel
David Martin wrote:
> I'd be surprised if the hub bearings would give a knocking
> sound.. more of a crunch than a knock.
When my axle was bent and the cone loose, I found out
because there was a knocking as the axle shifted in the hub.
--
Keith Willoughby http://flat222.org/keith/ "Don't let
anybody make you think that God chose America as His divine
messianic force to be -- a sort of policeman of the whole
world." - MLK
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 09:50:50 +0100, in
<4kmvd01uplt1foptsefaje7vf57ftjn2u1@4ax.com>, audrey <me@privacy.net>
wrote:
>Oh fab. Would it be the same number (7) and size of
>bearings as were in the cage? Have recovered all of them,
>so if it's the same no. I can be going again in no time.
I honestly don't know what size is standard for hubs, but
the total is more than 7. I think it is 8 (last time I
serviced my hubs I simply took the bearings out, regreased
and piled them back in again.
If your cage is totally wrecked then it wouldn't surprise me
if the bearings were also wrecked. Your LBS will be able to
supply correct sized bearings. Pile them in until you can't
fit any more in (I'm sure it is eight) but bear in mind
there should be a gap of less than one ball-width to allow
for smooth movement.
Do you know about the sheldon brown website? Terribly useful
when you can't remember how many bearings go in a single
flanged double butted oojimawhatsit with striated curvature
with only a parallel flank on the offside.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/hubs.html tells me that
the magic numberis in fact NINE bearings 1/4 inch size.
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which is sent to me (whether intended or not) may, if I so
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On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:13:58 +0100, Keith Willoughby
<keith@flat222.org> wrote:
>David Martin wrote:
>
>> I'd be surprised if the hub bearings would give a
>> knocking sound.. more of a crunch than a knock.
>
>When my axle was bent and the cone loose, I found out
>because there was a knocking as the axle shifted in the
>hub.
/goes to inspect axle for bentness ....
A
--
email = audmad aaatttt hhhottt mmmaailll dddoottt ccccoommm
Originally posted by Keith Willoughb
Richard Bates wrote:
I did it with a be-gloved finger covered in grease. The ball-
bearings stick to it nicely, then you kind of scrape them
off into the bearing race.
if its a cassette freehub it makes no difference whether or not the cassette is removed as the bearing are on the end of the freehub and the cassette slips over the top. Removing the cassette doesn't make much, if any, easier. Removing a screw on block is a 10 spanner job (actually a vice, removal tool and lots of grunt) compared to removing a cassette according to me.
I cover the cup in grease, pick up the ball with my thumb and index finger and fire the ball into the grease by squeezing the thumb and finger together. A small screw driver in the left hand acts as a guide
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:24:18 +0100, audrey <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:13:58 +0100, Keith Willoughby
><keith@flat222.org> wrote:
>
>>When my axle was bent and the cone loose, I found out
>>because there was a knocking as the axle shifted in
>>the hub.
>
>/goes to inspect axle for bentness ....
>
ok well it *looks* straight. Is axle bentness something that
can be judged by the inexpert naked eye, or does it call for
an expert eye and/or special bit of kit?
A
(told you I was new at this didn't I?)
--
email = audmacd aaatttt hhhottt mmmaailll dddoottt ccccoommm
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 10:12:52 +0100, Richard Bates
<usenet01@artybee.net> wrote:
>
>If your cage is totally wrecked then it wouldn't surprise
>me if the bearings were also wrecked. Your LBS will be able
>to supply correct sized bearings.
Good point, thanks :)
>Do you know about the sheldon brown website? Terribly
>useful when you can't remember how many bearings go in a
>single flanged double butted oojimawhatsit with striated
>curvature with only a parallel flank on the offside.
I do use Sheldon Brown's site, particularly for 'further
reading' after looking stuff up in the Bike Book. But as
a complete n00b, I don't always find it easy to find
what I want, or understand what I'm reading. I need lots
of pictures!
>
>http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/hubs.html tells
>me that the magic numberis in fact NINE bearings 1/4
>inch size.
thanks ... I got seven because that's the number that came
out, and the number in the cage on the other side. Size I
have no idea about. I think I'll still be taking the wheel
on the bus to the LBS this afternoon, but at least now I
won't have to leave it there.
thanks Audrey
--
email = audmacd aaatttt hhhottt mmmaailll dddoottt ccccoommm
"audrey" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:ibpvd0p3bp6qp1vq9rrbl3vtpfrs686ma5@4ax.com...
> ok well it *looks* straight. Is axle bentness something
> that can be judged by the inexpert naked eye, or does it
> call for an expert eye and/or special bit of kit?
If it's out, try rolling it along a flat surface - any bend
should become apparent then.
cheers, clive
thanks everyone for your advice on my bearing/hubs issues.
Me and the rear wheel are off to the LBS this afternoon - my
bike maint teacher is working there this aft and as long as
I avoid the busy lunch time period, she'll spend a bit of
time with me. I feel like I go in from a position of having
tried to solve things myself, rather than giving up. And I
have a lot more knowledge for next time something hub
related goes wrong.
Audrey
--
email = audmacd aaatttt hhhottt mmmaailll dddoottt ccccoommm
On 28/6/04 10:43 am, in article cbop1m$ee0$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk, "Clive
> "audrey" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:ibpvd0p3bp6qp1vq9rrbl3vtpfrs686ma5@4ax.com...
>> ok well it *looks* straight. Is axle bentness something
>> that can be judged by the inexpert naked eye, or does it
>> call for an expert eye and/or special bit of kit?
>
> If it's out, try rolling it along a flat surface - any
> bend should become apparent then.
Wot 'e said..
Bends in axles are easy to spot as soon as you roll them on
a flat surface. Look at the end of the axle, not the middle.
If it precesses (wobbles around the axis of turn) rather
than stays straight then the axle is bent. If you can't see
a bend it's not bent enough to be too worried about.
Check the bearing races. If they are pitted, then it is LBS
time (and maybe a new hub/wheel if seriously knackered.)
..d
I took back wheel to bike shop, they kindly (and inspite of
extreme business) removed the sprockets and replaced the
bearings in both sides (it was 9 quarter-inch bearings it
needed). Came home, refitted wheel, went for test ride.
Aaargh. It is of course still clunking.
The noise is coming from the back of the bike, and happens
in time with the rate at which the wheel is turning. It
happens whether or not I'm pedalling. It only happens when
I'm riding the bike ie I can't replicate it when I'm not
on the bike.
I think something is probably Seriously Buggered and the
whole bike needs to visit the LBS, but any suggestions for
cause of knocking noise gratefully received. And thanks
again to everyone who's helped me out so far.
--
email = audmacd aaatttt hhhottt mmmaailll dddoottt ccccoommm
"audrey" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:gfn0e01b2n9orfgoi1437hfrjos0ej2s04@4ax.com...
> I took back wheel to bike shop, they kindly (and inspite
> of extreme business) removed the sprockets and replaced
> the bearings in both sides (it was 9 quarter-inch bearings
> it needed). Came home, refitted wheel, went for test ride.
> Aaargh. It is of course still clunking.
>
> The noise is coming from the back of the bike, and happens
> in time with the rate at which the wheel is turning. It
> happens whether or not I'm pedalling. It only happens when
> I'm riding the bike ie I can't replicate it when I'm not
> on the bike.
Have you tried loading the bike up with something really
heavy - ideally up to the equivalent of your own weight -
obviously a bit impractical - or had somebody else to sit in
the saddle, and tried to replicate the noise then?
Curious
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 19:35:05 +0100, "Dr Curious"
<curiosity38@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Have you tried loading the bike up with something really
>heavy - ideally up to the equivalent of your own weight -
>obviously a bit impractical - or had somebody else to sit
>in the saddle, and tried to replicate the noise then?
>
My otherhalf who, tho not as heavy as me, is no lightweight,
has just had a go on it. He got the knocking noise too, and
also heard an associated grinding noise. Which points back
to the hubs/bearings again I think?
A
--
email = audmacd aaatttt hhhottt mmmaailll dddoottt ccccoommm
On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 19:16:56 +0100, in
<gfn0e01b2n9orfgoi1437hfrjos0ej2s04@4ax.com>, audrey <me@privacy.net>
wrote:
>I think something is probably Seriously Buggered and the
>whole bike needs to visit the LBS, but any suggestions for
>cause of knocking noise gratefully received. And thanks
>again to everyone who's helped me out so far.
I can only think of broken spokes or broken rim. But I'm
sure your bike shop would have noticed.
Unless it's the freehub or freewheel ?
Beats me. Sorry :-(
--
DISCLAIMER: My email box is private property.Email which
appears in my inbox is mine to do what I like with. Anything
which is sent to me (whether intended or not) may, if I so
desire, form a legal and binding contract.
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