To Gu, or not to Gu... that is the question.

[John Sanders]

Hi everyone, I'm a novice runner, and have one marathon
under my belt. I'm starting training on my second marathon,
and this time my girlfriend is running it with me. I'm
curious at what point is Gu, or some other carb replacement
gel, really necessary? I guess it never hurts to take it
anytime, but is there a mileage where I should start taking
it for sure? We're up to a 10 mile long run right now, and
building to 18 before we taper for the marathon.

Thanks for any advice.

John

p.s. My reply address is not valid, please reply to
the group. :)

[Harold Buck]

In article <Gs2Gc.8936$JR4.2593@attbi_s54>,
"John Sanders" <emailaddress@domain.com> wrote:

> I'm a novice runner, and have one marathon under my
> belt. I'm starting training on my second marathon, and
> this time my girlfriend is running it with me. I'm
> curious at what point is Gu, or some other carb
> replacement gel, really necessary? I guess it never
> hurts to take it anytime, but is there a mileage where I
> should start taking it for sure? We're up to a 10 mile
> long run right now, and building to 18 before we taper
> for the marathon.

I do a Clif shot every half hour for any run 2 hours or
longer. I could probably *do* the runs without it, but part
of the idea is to get used to taking in calories while
exercising. You need to train yourself to eat while running,
and you need to find out what works and what doesn't (I
couldn't really stomach PowerGels at first, but Clif shots
worked for
me. I can deal with the new PowerGels, but I don't like
them as much).

I have a holster-style bottle carrier that has a zipper
pocket; I can get about 6 gels in there.

If you're not used to eating on the run, you might start
experimenting with it on shorter runs (an hour or more).

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Th-
en it was every other day. . . ."
- Homer J. Simpson

[Anthony]

John Sanders wrote:

>Hi everyone, I'm a novice runner, and have one marathon
>under my belt. I'm starting training on my second marathon,
>and this time my girlfriend is running it with me. I'm
>curious at what point is Gu, or some other carb replacement
>gel, really necessary? I guess it never hurts to take it
>anytime, but is there a mileage where I should start taking
>it for sure? We're up to a 10 mile long run right now, and
>building to 18 before we taper for the marathon.
>
>
Are you asking about carb replacement on the actual
marathon or on your training runs?

For training runs it is a good idea to take in some carbs
if you're running for more than an hour. This also gives
you the added bonus of practising your carb intake/ fluid
replacement for race-day. You need about 30 grams of carbs
for every hour. For sports drinks that works out about
150ml (5 ounces) every 15-20 minutes. The bad thing about
gels is that you have to add water to get the correct
concentration of carbs (6-8%). If it works for you -
great. Here's a reference with some further explanations:
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0015.htm

If you have time on your marathon plan, it would probably
be beneficial to get up to 20 miles, rather than the 18
that you have currently planned.

Anthony.

[Great Marathon]

John, When is it necasary? Never. I currently do 9 miles a
day, gatorade and water, a good diet, and unless you have a
problem I'd avoid them. Do what works for you, and since you
did one marathon already, apparently without them, why
bother? Don't try to fix what ain't broke. The Bill Rodgers

"John Sanders" <emailaddress@domain.com> wrote in message
news:<Gs2Gc.8936$JR4.2593@attbi_s54>...
> Hi everyone, I'm a novice runner, and have one marathon
> under my belt. I'm starting training on my second
> marathon, and this time my girlfriend is running it with
> me. I'm curious at what point is Gu, or some other carb
> replacement gel, really necessary? I guess it never hurts
> to take it anytime, but is there a mileage where I should
> start taking it for sure? We're up to a 10 mile long run
> right now, and building to 18 before we taper for the
> marathon.
>
> Thanks for any advice.
>
> John
>
> p.s. My reply address is not valid, please reply to the
> group. :)

[N_a_j]

"John Sanders" <emailaddress@domain.com> wrote in message news:<Gs2Gc.8936$JR4.2593@attbi_s54>...
> Hi everyone, I'm a novice runner, and have one marathon
> under my belt. I'm starting training on my second
> marathon, and this time my girlfriend is running it with
> me. I'm curious at what point is Gu, or some other carb
> replacement gel, really necessary? I guess it never hurts
> to take it anytime, but is there a mileage where I should
> start taking it for sure? We're up to a 10 mile long run
> right now, and building to 18 before we taper for the
> marathon.
>
> Thanks for any advice.
>
> John

I use carb gels on long training runs and longer distance
races(>10K). I've used Power Gel, GU, Clifshot, and now
Hammer Gel. IMO, Power Gel is a bit too thick to get down.
Clifshot has worked well for me, and I'm currently
experimenting with Hammer Gel. Hammer Gel has the best
consistency for me. As others will tell you, train with what
you intend to use during the marathon. You don't want any
surprises on race day. Time your ingestion of the gel
shortly before arriving at a water station. You use the
water to wash it down completely. Some gels have added
caffeine. If you don't want to carry individual packets, you
can purchase a reusable gel flask that holds 5-6 servings.
For a marathon distance, I would take some gel at the 6, 12,
and 18 mile mark, although you need to find out what works
for you. I also feel that there is something to be said for
the positive psychological effect that taking these gels
provides. I took some lemon-lime Power Gel at several points
during a recent 30K, and I feel that it really helped me
refocus. That was also the first race in which I truly felt
the physiological effects as well.

[John Sanders]

Thanks to all for you replies. Much food for thought...

John

"John Sanders" <emailaddress@domain.com> wrote in message
news:Gs2Gc.8936$JR4.2593@attbi_s54...
> Hi everyone, I'm a novice runner, and have one marathon
> under my belt. I'm starting training on my second
> marathon, and this time my girlfriend is running it with
> me. I'm curious at what point is Gu, or some other carb
> replacement gel, really necessary? I guess it never hurts
> to take it anytime, but is there a mileage where I should
> start taking it for sure? We're up to a 10 mile long run
> right now, and building to 18 before we taper for the
> marathon.
>
> Thanks for any advice.
>
> John
>
> p.s. My reply address is not valid, please reply to the
> group. :)

[Sam]

A few additional comments:

1) the recommended range for carb intake is 30 to 60 g/hr.
(www.gssiweb.com is an excellent source of info)
2) yes you must dilute a gel with water to get it to 6 to
8%, but water might be more freely available than
Gatorade. For instance, a group I run with will plan our
long runs so that we hit one of the many city/county
parks where water is available. This allows us to either
get a drink or refill a water bottle.

If the run is lasting longer than an hour, do not wait until
the end of the first hour to starting taking in the carbs. I
would suggest popping the first one at 30 minutes in and
then every 45 min thereafter, but everyone (and every run)
is going to be unique. It is better to start early rather
than late.

Good luck with your training.

"Anthony" <anthony@nospm.mail.biu.ac.il> wrote in message
news:40E91822.8010103@nospm.mail.biu.ac.il...
> John Sanders wrote:
>
> >Hi everyone, I'm a novice runner, and have one marathon
> >under my belt. I'm starting training on my second
> >marathon, and this time my girlfriend is running it with
> >me. I'm curious at what point is Gu, or some other carb
> >replacement gel, really necessary? I guess it never hurts
> >to take it anytime, but is there a mileage where I should
> >start taking it for sure? We're up to a
10
> >mile long run right now, and building to 18 before we
> >taper for the marathon.
> >
> >
> Are you asking about carb replacement on the actual
> marathon or on your training runs?
>
> For training runs it is a good idea to take in some
> carbs if you're running for more than an hour. This also
> gives you the added bonus of practising your carb
> intake/ fluid replacement for race-day. You need about
> 30 grams of carbs for every hour. For sports drinks that
> works out about 150ml (5 ounces) every 15-20 minutes.
> The bad thing about gels is that you have to add water
> to get the correct concentration of carbs (6-8%). If it
> works for you - great. Here's a reference with some
> further explanations:
> http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0015.htm
>
> If you have time on your marathon plan, it would
> probably be beneficial to get up to 20 miles, rather
> than the 18 that you have currently planned.
>
> Anthony.

[Great Marathon]

LOL What a punk. "longer distance races" of 10k??? You are a
sprinter, not a distance runner. Goo's do you no good,
except in your tiny brain. Instead, just loosen that towel
on your head.

njacobs1966@aol.com (N_A_J) wrote in message
news:<561d629b.0407050950.204e965e@posting.google.com>...
> > I use carb gels on long training runs and longer
> > distance races(>10K).
> I've used Power Gel, GU, Clifshot, and now Hammer Gel.
> IMO, Power Gel is a bit too thick to get down. Clifshot
> has worked well for me, and I'm currently experimenting
> with Hammer Gel. Hammer Gel has the best consistency for
> me. As others will tell you, train with what you intend to
> use during the marathon. You don't want any surprises on
> race day. Time your ingestion of the gel shortly before
> arriving at a water station. You use the water to wash it
> down completely. Some gels have added caffeine. If you
> don't want to carry individual packets, you can purchase a
> reusable gel flask that holds 5-6 servings. For a marathon
> distance, I would take some gel at the 6, 12, and 18 mile
> mark, although you need to find out what works for you. I
> also feel that there is something to be said for the
> positive psychological effect that taking these gels
> provides. I took some lemon-lime Power Gel at several
> points during a recent 30K, and I feel that it really
> helped me refocus. That was also the first race in which I
> truly felt the physiological effects as well.

[Phil M.]

One dark day on Usenet, "Sam" <marathonman@mindspring.com> said
news:mxcGc.5963$oD3.5715@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:

> A few additional comments:
>
> 1) the recommended range for carb intake is 30 to 60 g/hr.
> (www.gssiweb.com is an excellent source of info)
> 2) yes you must dilute a gel with water to get it to 6 to
> 8%, but water might be more freely available than
> Gatorade. For instance, a group I run with will plan
> our long runs so that we hit one of the many
> city/county parks where water is available. This allows
> us to either get a drink or refill a water bottle.
>
>
> If the run is lasting longer than an hour, do not wait
> until the end of the first hour to starting taking in the
> carbs. I would suggest popping the first one at 30 minutes
> in and then every 45 min thereafter, but everyone (and
> every run) is going to be unique. It is better to start
> early rather than late.

I've been running my last several long runs (up to 19 miles)
without gels. I've found that I have excellent results with
just a sports drink. I've tried a few drinks, such as
Gatorade, Accelerade and Cytomax. Of those, Cytomax seems to
work the best for me. Most sports drinks seem to have a
caloric content per 12 oz of 75 to 100 calories (20-22
carbs), while gels are usually arond 100 calories (24-27
carbs). I haven't tried it yet, but on the Cytomax can they
suggest up to 1.5 scoops per 16 oz (1 scoop per 16 oz is the
serving size). This would closely match a gel with 12 oz of
water. This may take a little getting used to, gastricly
speaking (if I may speak gastricly).

Just looking at the numbers, I don't see any big advantage
to using gels with water rather than Cytomax alone. Also,
the sports drink alone is a little easier to deal with when
you have to carry your own fluids or drop bottles along
your route.

Phil M.

--
If you can empty your own boat Crossing the river of the
world, No one will oppose you, No one will seek to harm you.
-Chuang Tzu

[Harold Buck]

In article <cfc478de.0407051806.1467781@posting.google.com>,
bigbalz_9@hotmail.com (Great Marathon man) wrote:

> njacobs1966@aol.com (N_A_J) wrote in message
> news:<561d629b.0407050950.204e965e@posting.google.com>...
> > > I use carb gels on long training runs and longer
> > > distance races(>10K).
>
> LOL What a punk. "longer distance races" of 10k??? You are
> a sprinter, not a distance runner. Goo's do you no good,
> except in your tiny brain. Instead, just loosen that towel
> on your head.
>

In my world, punk = "top poster."

Anyway, he's talking about races over 10k. For most people,
the next longest race after a 10k is a half-marathon, which
most people would call a "longer-distance race." You seem to
not grasp the difference between ">" and ">=".

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Th-
en it was every other day. . . ."
- Homer J. Simpson

[Great Marathon]

The more it bothers you and you protest, the more I'll do
it.

Harold Buck <no_one_knows@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<no_one_knows-
4FBF33.10190906072004@comcast.dca.giganews.com>...
> In my world, punk = "top poster."
>

Then I guess you're a punk.

> Anyway, he's talking about races over 10k. For most
> people, the next longest race after a 10k is a half-
> marathon, which most people would call a "longer-distance
> race." You seem to not grasp the difference between ">"
> and ">=".

No the real problem is you (and many here) seem to think
you're long distance runners, when you aren't. 90 minutes or
less requires nothing.

> --Harold Buck
>
>
> "I used to punk rock and roll all night,
>

Punk.

[Harold Buck]

In article <cfc478de.0407070622.18f7d5c0@posting.google.com>,
bigbalz_9@hotmail.com (Great Marathon man) wrote:

> The more it bothers you and you protest, the more
> I'll do it.
>
> Harold Buck <no_one_knows@attbi.com> wrote in message news:<no_one_knows-
> 4FBF33.10190906072004@comcast.dca.giganews.com>...
> > In my world, punk = "top poster."
> >
>

<PLONK>

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Th-
en it was every other day. . . ."
- Homer J. Simpson