A. After the respondents tell me that the testing of needles
are not effective, could any of you other folks out there
pass me on to some organization that tests needles?...
B. If you don't know the answer to my question could you
give me the name of a person or institution that could
answer where needles are tested?...
In a reply, a sentence is constructed as though pcr is some
kind of agent. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-
8&group=sci.med.laboratory
http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-
5yjgent%40cox.net&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-
8%26group%3Dsci.med.laboratory
B.A.A. In a reply regarding no clinician would ever do that?
I guess I'm wondering how that is so clear?... Or is
there some universal protocol ?... How that can be so
definitive?...
B.A.B. I'm puzzled as to how someone could make that
claim. Is that because doctors have some intuitive
understanding?... Or is that some universal
protocol that doctors have been trained to follow
without fail ?...
C. Is there a god of manufactured and packaged needles that
makes sure that all needles are free of infectious
agents?...
D. Is this god available automatically and always at work or
does someone have to pray to make sure that things are up
to stuff?...
E. What if you had needles where it appears there is
something wrong with the manufacturing?...
F. What if kids are found playing with needles on a
playground ?...
There is a news story about the school and the teacher who
let the bat go because they would have to kill the bat to
test for rabies.
On 28 Jun 2004 06:34:44 -0400, Don Saklad wrote:
>A. After the respondents tell me that the testing of
> needles are not effective, could any of you other folks
> out there pass me on to some organization that tests
> needles?...
Don, you're mixing apples and oranges, and this is why
you're getting the unsatisfying answers you've seen in the
several newsgroups you've plastered with your mixed
questions.
Where there is a needle puncture incident in the health care
setting: NEEDLES are disposed of, NOT tested for anything.
HUMANS involved ARE tested for infectious organisms (maybe).
Why aren't needles tested following an incidentally needle
stick? It wouldn't be of any clinical significance in the
treatment of the affected parties, and post-exposure
treatment of the individual, usually the health care worker,
is the common concern following such an event.
>B. If you don't know the answer to my question could you
> give me the name of a person or institution that could
> answer where needles are tested?...
That's been done already. Maybe you missed it. If you have
some hypothetical question you'd like to impose on an agency
capable of testing a needle for residual contaminants, you
might try the FBI Laboratory Division, Scientific Analysis
Section (SAS). The Section Chief could tell you which APE
would undertake such an analysis. ...but he won't. He'll
probably assume you're some member of the granola family,
i.e. either a fruit, nut, or flake.
Tell'em I sent you, and they'll charge you double (or maybe
hold you indefinitely without charges under the material
witness provision included in the U.S.A. Patriot Act).
If you don't like that answer, you might call the CDC,
NIOSH, or OSHA and ask for information.
If all else fails, pick up your phone and ask for MIT's
Environment, Health, and Safety Office (EHS Office). They
might be more willing to chat it out with you longer before
getting testy than usenet's readers have been.
>In a reply, a sentence is constructed as though pcr is some
>kind of agent.
PCR is not some kind of government agency; it is a
laboratory test. When Richard mentioned PCR, he almost
certainly meant the Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) Test, a
forensic medical test for amplifying small quantities of DNA
to make use of whatever trace genetic evidence might be left
around a crime scene.
However, as Richard has already pointed out, this is not the
test used after an incidental needle stick in the health
care setting. After such an event, affected individuals are
serially tested (with their consent) for the presence of
antibodies to nasty crawlies and creeping crud.
>C.D.E. In a reply regarding no clinician would ever do
> that? I guess I'm wondering how that is so clear?...
> Or is there some universal protocol ?... How that
> can be so definitive?...
If you're asking why health care clinicians wouldn't test a
needle after an incidental needle stick, see Answer A.
The needle's biological contamination after a stick is
clinically insignificant, and there are real live humans
more suitable for examination, i.e. the originating patient
and the health care worker.
As several clinicians have already instructed, one might
request a culture and sensitivity test of the needle
afterward, but they would be scorned and ridiculed for
requesting such a pointless examination.
>F.G.H. I'm puzzled as to how someone could make that claim.
> Is that because doctors have some intuitive
> understanding?... Or is that some universal protocol
> that doctors have been trained to follow without
> fail ?...
Intuition has little to do with the decision, but training
does; yes.
For your own edification, you might want to learn what the
federal government directs be done as follow-up to a post-
exposure incident.
The Code of Federal Regulations might be a useful resource.
See 29 CFR 1910.1030 regarding post-exposure evaluation and
follow-up.
That's not saying that whatever state or commonwealth you
inhabit (Massachusetts?) doesn't have its own body of
government regulations on the same topic.
>I. Is there a god of manufactured and packaged needles that
> makes sure that all needles are free of infectious
> agents?...
Yes, and this touches the oranges in your apples & oranges
mixture. Now you're asking about product manufacturing,
packaging, and related quality management concerns -- wholly
unrelated to the "Needle stick" you asked about. Maybe you
should stop including the words "needle" and "stick"
together in the Subject line?
You can use your internet search engine to identify the
nearest manufacturer of hypodermic syringes. Call the
company, and ask for the Quality Management/Product
Improvement Manager (QM/PI). Ask about microscopic
examination, UV lamps, exposure time, test packets, etc.
He'll love it.
>J. Is this god available automatically and always at work
> or does someone have to pray to make sure that things
> are up to stuff?...
Generally, the QM/PI Manager must be prayed to in order to
ensure things are "up to stuff." Doubtless, supplications
should include a generous compensation package - medical,
dental, paid leave, etc., and the additional adoration
afforded by a large expense account.
But, be forewarned. If you are the CFO, he loves you,
because he's married to your sister, and you're both members
of the club. If you are from Network Management, he secretly
dislikes you. You're a jerk, and he wants his icons in
cornflower blue.
No, he will not always be at work, but he's on salary. Call
him at home. Of course, if properly adored with a generous
budget and a satisfying expense account, the divine one's
clerical minions will be available to meet your more humble
spiritual needs on an hourly basis. They, as most
priesthoods, are a generally self-directing industry.
>K. What if you had needles where it appears there is
> something wrong with the manufacturing?...
Don't use it?
>L. What if kids are found playing with needles on a
> playground ?...
Tell them to stop that, and call the authorities?
School yard monitor, school principal, law enforcement, and
HAZMAT seem like a good start. They can handle this sort of
crisis for you.
>There is a news story about the school and the teacher who
>let the bat go because they would have to kill the bat to
>test for rabies.
Just out of morbid curiosity, what school; when; where; and
does this relate in any way whatsoever to your earlier
questions?
@~
