What is on those TdF bikes?

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Watching the TF on OLN, it seemed that many bikes had a
yellow rectangular object hanging off the non drive side
chain stay.It seemed to be in various positions that did not
make it seem to be a cadence sensor. Ideas? Stan

"Stan Lipnowski" <slipnow@mb.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:SyoGc.64351$gf1.118993@news1.mts.net...
> Watching the TF on OLN, it seemed that many bikes had a
> yellow rectangular object hanging off the non drive side
> chain stay.It seemed to be in
various
> positions that did not make it seem to be a cadence
> sensor. Ideas? Stan
>
Micro chips for tracking the bikes?

The yellow ones are EPO, the red ones are EGH ;-)

Sorry,

Bow

"Stan Lipnowski" <slipnow@mb.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:SyoGc.64351$gf1.118993@news1.mts.net...
> Watching the TF on OLN, it seemed that many bikes had a
> yellow rectangular object hanging off the non drive side
> chain stay.It seemed to be in
various
> positions that did not make it seem to be a cadence
> sensor. Ideas? Stan

On Mon, 5 Jul 2004 22:01:28 -0500, "Stan Lipnowski"
<slipnow@mb.sympatico.ca> wrote:

>Watching the TF on OLN, it seemed that many bikes had a
>yellow rectangular object hanging off the non drive side
>chain stay.It seemed to be in various positions that did
>not make it seem to be a cadence sensor. Ideas? Stan
>

A scoring transponder.

These guys make them for all kinds of racing, even
radio control!

<http://www.amb-it.com/> (http://www.amb-it.com/)

Now they've entered the T de F.

Barry

"Dave Thompson" <davetspokane1@comcast.net> skrev i en meddelelse
news:reCdnTCJDZ5li3fdRVn-hA@comcast.com...
>
>> Micro chips for tracking the bikes?
>
>
Yes, Micro chips used to registerer the bikes as they pass
the finishing line - giving not only the time but also the
exact placement. That's what we were told on tv here in
Denmark. Ivar

Originally posted by Stan Lipnowski
Watching the TF on OLN, it seemed that many bikes had a
yellow rectangular object hanging off the non drive side
chain stay.It seemed to be in various positions that did not
make it seem to be a cadence sensor. Ideas? Stan

AMB IT.
Identification and Timing system.

see:

< http://www.amb-it.com/marketing/AMB_Activ.pdf>

I wondered what happens when the need to switch bicycles mid stage,,,... as happens upon occasion.

"Stan Lipnowski" <slipnow@mb.sympatico.ca> wrote in
message news

> Watching the TF on OLN, it seemed that many bikes had a
> yellow rectangular object hanging off the non drive side
> chain stay.It seemed to be in various positions that did
> not make it seem to be a cadence sensor. Ideas? Stan

GPS / heartrate sender unit?

ST

"daveornee" <usenet-forum@cyclingforums.com> wrote in message
news:JBxGc.25899$Dr1.4045@fe14.usenetserver.com...
> Stan Lipnowski wrote:
> > Watching the TF on OLN, it seemed that many bikes had
> > a yellow rectangular object hanging off the non drive
> > side chain stay.It seemed to be in various positions
> > that did not make it seem to be a cadence sensor.
> > Ideas? Stan
>
>
>
> AMB IT. Identification and Timing system.
>
> see:
>
> < http://www.amb-it.com/marketing/AMB_Activ.pdf>
>
> I wondered what happens when the need to switch bicycles
> mid stage,,,... as happens upon occasion.
>

They could supply RFID tags for all the team's bicycles
including the backup ones. The new tag should still register
when it crosses the finish line. After the fact, they must
have some manual process to associate the new tag with a
particular rider. It would be easier if the riders could
just wear the tag like runners do.

rosco" <reverse-the-following"ocsor_g wrote:

>
> They could supply RFID tags for all the team's bicycles
> including the backup ones. The new tag should still
> register when it crosses the finish line. After the fact,
> they must have some manual process to associate the new
> tag with a particular rider. It would be easier if the
> riders could just wear the tag like runners do.

The feedback loop on the road is 1.2m past the finish line,
the transponder it 1.2m behind the front of the front wheel.
Attaching the transponder to the rider would be less
accurate since the placings and timings are taken on the
bike not the rider

"Ivar Hesselager" <ivar.hesselager@medie.dk> writes:

> "Dave Thompson" <davetspokane1@comcast.net> skrev i en
> meddelelse news:reCdnTCJDZ5li3fdRVn-hA@comcast.com...
>>
>>> Micro chips for tracking the bikes?
>>
>>
> Yes, Micro chips used to registerer the bikes as they pass
> the finishing line - giving not only the time but also the
> exact placement. That's what we were told on tv here in
> Denmark.

Well, that seems the plausible explanation, except for the
fact that finishing order is determined by the frontmost
part of the bike to cross the line (the leading edge of the
front wheel), and these tags are rather haphazardly located
on the chainstay.

"MSeries" <skankmartin@hotmail.com> writes:

> rosco" <reverse-the-following"ocsor_g wrote:
>
>>
>> They could supply RFID tags for all the team's bicycles
>> including the backup ones. The new tag should still
>> register when it crosses the finish line. After the fact,
>> they must have some manual process to associate the new
>> tag with a particular rider. It would be easier if the
>> riders could just wear the tag like runners do.
>
> The feedback loop on the road is 1.2m past the finish
> line, the transponder it 1.2m behind the front of the
> front wheel. Attaching the transponder to the rider would
> be less accurate since the placings and timings are taken
> on the bike not the rider

Yes, but the leading edge of the front wheel, not some spot
on the rear triangle.

MSeries wrote:

> rosco" <reverse-the-following"ocsor_g wrote:
>
>
>>They could supply RFID tags for all the team's bicycles
>>including the backup ones. The new tag should still
>>register when it crosses the finish line. After the fact,
>>they must have some manual process to associate the new
>>tag with a particular rider. It would be easier if the
>>riders could just wear the tag like runners do.
>
>
> The feedback loop on the road is 1.2m past the finish
> line, the transponder it 1.2m behind the front of the
> front wheel.

? I presume you mean the sensor on the road is 1.2 m before
the finish line so that the transponder on the bike would be
over it just when the front wheel reaches the line.

> Attaching the transponder to the rider would be less
> accurate since the placings and timings are taken on the
> bike not the rider.

I wore one on a recent triathlon and they are very annoying
after an hour or so. It was velcro'd around my ankle and had
a bit of neoprene between it and my skin. If that tried to
get onto the tour it wouldn't last long. I imagine pro
cyclists can be as bad as spoilt actresses at times.

"rosco" <reverse-the-following"ocsor_g"@hotmail.com> wrote
in message news:58AGc.7005$oD3.5977@newsread1.news.pas.eart-
hlink.net...
> "daveornee" <usenet-forum@cyclingforums.com> wrote in
> message news:JBxGc.25899$Dr1.4045@fe14.usenetserver.com...
> > Stan Lipnowski wrote:
> > > Watching the TF on OLN, it seemed that many bikes
> > > had a yellow rectangular object hanging off the non
> > > drive side chain stay.It
seemed
> > > to be in various positions that did not make it seem
> > > to be a cadence sensor. Ideas? Stan
> >
> >
> >
> > AMB IT. Identification and Timing system.
> >
> > see:
> >
> > < http://www.amb-it.com/marketing/AMB_Activ.pdf>
> >
> > I wondered what happens when the need to switch bicycles
> > mid stage,,,... as happens upon occasion.
> >
>
> They could supply RFID tags for all the team's bicycles
> including the
backup
> ones. The new tag should still register when it crosses
> the finish line. After the fact, they must have some
> manual process to associate the new
tag
> with a particular rider. It would be easier if the riders
> could just wear the tag like runners do.

The tags aren't used for determining finishing order, as
their time resolution isn't good enough. They just record
which riders finished in which bunch. Photofinish camera are
still used to determine placings.

Nick

"Tim McNamara" <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote in message news:m2r7rohfsh.fsf@Stella-
Blue.local...
> "Ivar Hesselager" <ivar.hesselager@medie.dk> writes:
>
> > "Dave Thompson" <davetspokane1@comcast.net> skrev i en
> > meddelelse news:reCdnTCJDZ5li3fdRVn-hA@comcast.com...
> >>
> >>> Micro chips for tracking the bikes?
> >>
> >>
> > Yes, Micro chips used to registerer the bikes as they
> > pass the finishing line - giving not only the time but
> > also the exact placement. That's what we were told on tv
> > here in Denmark.
>
> Well, that seems the plausible explanation, except for the
> fact that finishing order is determined by the frontmost
> part of the bike to cross the line (the leading edge of
> the front wheel), and these tags are rather haphazardly
> located on the chainstay.

"LAN Support" <someone@nowhere.au> wrote in message
news:40eb6ec6$0$41643$c30e37c6@lon-reader.news.telstra.net...
| The tags aren't used for determining finishing order, as
| their time resolution isn't good enough. They just record
| which riders finished in which bunch. Photofinish camera
| are still used to determine placings.
|
| Nick

Chip timing resolution is .01 second for running/ skating
races; probably greater if needed. ED3

"Edward Dike, III" <edd(2+1)remove_removes@qwestion.net> wrote:

>
>"LAN Support" <someone@nowhere.au> wrote in message news:40eb6ec6$0$41643$c30e37c6@lon-
>reader.news.telstra.net...
>| The tags aren't used for determining finishing order, as
>| their time resolution isn't good enough. They just record
>| which riders finished in which bunch. Photofinish camera
>| are still used to determine placings.

>Chip timing resolution is .01 second for running/ skating
>races; probably greater if needed.

At 40mph / 65 km/h .01 seconds is only good down to a
resolution of .18m (or a little over 6"). There can be
several bikes squeezed into that space. They'll be keeping
the cameras for a while it appears.

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com (http://www.habcycles.com/) Home of
the $695 ti frame

On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 21:44:33 -0700, Mark Hickey <mark@habcycles.com>
wrote:

>"Edward Dike, III"
><edd(2+1)remove_removes@qwestion.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"LAN Support" <someone@nowhere.au> wrote in message news:40eb6ec6$0$41643$c30e37c6@lon-
>>reader.news.telstra.net...
>>| The tags aren't used for determining finishing order, as
>>| their time resolution isn't good enough. They just
>>| record which riders finished in which bunch. Photofinish
>>| camera are still used to determine placings.
>
>>Chip timing resolution is .01 second for running/ skating
>>races; probably greater if needed.
>
>At 40mph / 65 km/h .01 seconds is only good down to a
>resolution of .18m (or a little over 6"). There can be
>several bikes squeezed into that space. They'll be keeping
>the cameras for a while it appears.

And since the rules apparently state that the finish order
is (as mentioned elsewhere) determined by the first part of
the bike to cross the plane of the finish line, and given
the impossibility of putting the chip at that point without
something sticking forward to mount it, I don't think the
chips will be used for time and finish order without a
rules change.

They allow a much better job of documenting interim
positions and groupings than can be achieved by people
keeping track manually, though.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug. Some gardening required to
reply via email. Surrealism is a pectinated ranzel.

On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 18:33:34 -0500, Tim McNamara
<timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote:

>Well, that seems the plausible explanation, except for the
>fact that finishing order is determined by the frontmost
>part of the bike to cross the line (the leading edge of the
>front wheel), and these tags are rather haphazardly located
>on the chainstay.

It's not plausible, it's true. <G>

The system manufacturer has an article about the usage on
it's web site. As someone else mentioned, photo finishes are
used for judging extremely close finishes. Even the auto
racing bodies that use them run video at the finish line.

These systems are terrific for general race data, and a real
time ordering of the field and margin data that can be
easily fed to the press and scoreboards.

Barry

"Mark Hickey" <mark@habcycles.com> wrote in message
news:8ovme0liqji26ubda7r6n5fgkcsmkt9da2@4ax.com...
| "Edward Dike, III"
| <edd(2+1)remove_removes@qwestion.net> wrote:
|
| >
| >"LAN Support" <someone@nowhere.au> wrote in message news:40eb6ec6$0$41643$c30e37c6@lon-
| >reader.news.telstra.net...
| >| The tags aren't used for determining finishing order,
| >| as their time resolution isn't good enough. They just
| >| record which riders finished in which bunch.
| >| Photofinish camera are still used to determine
| >| placings.
|
| >Chip timing resolution is .01 second for running/ skating
| >races; probably greater if needed.
|
| At 40mph / 65 km/h .01 seconds is only good down to a
| resolution of .18m (or a little over 6"). There can be
| several bikes squeezed into that space. They'll be keeping
| the cameras for a while it appears.
|
| Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com (http://www.habcycles.com/) Home
| of the $695 ti frame

Given the unparalleled stakes of the TdF, and reliability
issues with chip timing in general- occasional missed scans
at starts/ finishes, that's a good thing.

Whoa to the poor soul who trips on the extension cord and
unplugs it at the wrong moment.

I suspect the resolution is mostly a function of the
spreadsheets used to record data. I have no idea what it
takes to overwhelm a chip timing system, but high speed film
allows for the input of human judgments, and verification by
almost anyone viewing the results, which certainly adds to
the credibility of the results.

ED3

Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote in message news:<m2r7rohfsh.fsf@Stella-Blue.local>...
> "Ivar Hesselager" <ivar.hesselager@medie.dk> writes:
>
> > "Dave Thompson" <davetspokane1@comcast.net> skrev i en
> > meddelelse news:reCdnTCJDZ5li3fdRVn-hA@comcast.com...
> >>
> >>> Micro chips for tracking the bikes?
> >>
> >>
> > Yes, Micro chips used to registerer the bikes as they
> > pass the finishing line - giving not only the time but
> > also the exact placement. That's what we were told on tv
> > here in Denmark.
>
> Well, that seems the plausible explanation, except for the
> fact that finishing order is determined by the frontmost
> part of the bike to cross the line (the leading edge of
> the front wheel), and these tags are rather haphazardly
> located on the chainstay.

They are transponders. They are set a certain distance from
the front of the bike, the sensor loop across the road is
the same distance from the finish line so that transponder-at-
loop = front-wheel-at line.

This year it is only experimental, the official
positions and timings are done by more traditional
(photographic) methods.

Andrew Webster