Nicole & the comic

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The comic does not do Nicole justice IMO, in terms of lack
of front page coverage of her achievements. So, go on...
email the comic and suggest, nay *demand* that she have the
entire front cover to herself this week. Go on... it's
cyclingATipcmediaDOTcom

Cheers, helen s

--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam-- to get
correct one remove fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

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is switched off--

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers wrote:
>
> The comic does not do Nicole justice IMO, in terms of lack
> of front page coverage of her achievements. So, go on...
> email the comic and suggest, nay *demand* that she have
> the entire front cover to herself this week. Go on... it's
> cyclingATipcmediaDOTcom

What are these achievements this year? Until she rode the
nationals she had hardly competed. Women's racing in this
country is hardly competitive although it's great that
Nicole is raising the profile of women's cycling. There was
plenty about Nicole in recent issues - she even made a main
part of the editorial - although with my cynic's hat on,
what she is saying is just what everyone always says.

Now, put her on a trike and she should have a full issue to
herself ;-)

John B (who no longer buys CW due to its rip off price
increases and inconsistent and unbalanced news coverage)

>What are these achievements this year? Until she rode the
>nationals she had hardly competed.

Injury. On her first outing back after injury, she wins the
nationals. Then soon after, on her first attempt at the Giro
Donne, she wins it. If that isn't a stunning achievement, I
don't know what is.

>Women's racing in this country is hardly competitive
>although it's great that Nicole is raising the profile of
>women's cycling.

I wonder why...

>There was plenty about Nicole in recent issues - she even
>made a main part of the editorial - although with my
>cynic's hat on, what she is saying is just what everyone
>always says.

I'm glad I'm not as cynical as you appear to be, life *that*
cynical sounds awfully sad.

>Now, put her on a trike and she should have a full issue to
>herself ;-)

She deserves a full issue anyhow ;-)

Cheers, helen s

--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam-- to get
correct one remove fame & fortune
h*$el*$$e*nd**$o$ts**i*$*$m*m$o*n*s@$*a$o*l.c**$om$

--Due to financial crisis the light at the end of the tunnel
is switched off--

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers wrote:
>
> >What are these achievements this year? Until she rode the
> >nationals she had hardly competed.
>
> Injury. On her first outing back after injury, she wins
> the nationals. Then soon after, on her first attempt at
> the Giro Donne, she wins it. If that isn't a stunning
> achievement, I don't know what is.

I agree.

> >Women's racing in this country is hardly competitive
> >although it's great that Nicole is raising the profile of
> >women's cycling.
>
> I wonder why...

Easy. Few competitors which makes it not worthwhile to put
on women only events. Those that do try can be put off by
having to ride with the men, where speeds and distances are
can be too high. Surrey League is leading the way with
their promotions but it needs to happen throughout the
country. Unfortunately (for women) it is very much a male
dominated sport.

> >There was plenty about Nicole in recent issues - she even
> >made a main part of the editorial - although with my
> >cynic's hat on, what she is saying is just what everyone
> >always says.
>
> I'm glad I'm not as cynical as you appear to be, life
> *that* cynical sounds awfully sad.

I'm cynical about the cleanliness of cycle racing. Please
don't make assumptions about the rest of my life just
because I'm cynical about what top riders say.

Were you taken in by Millar then? I was. I was wrong, as
were many others including the WCPP which he could have
completely destroyed. Cycle racing has lost its way. There
are parents pulling their kids out of the sport due to the
drugs issue. It seems so endemic that it can now be argued
that to be cynical is responsible.

> >Now, put her on a trike and she should have a full issue
> >to herself ;-)
>
> She deserves a full issue anyhow ;-)

Maybe. She is a good rider. I'd like to see women's racing
given more coverage, but not out of proportion to the amount
that takes place.

John B

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers wrote:
>

> >Few competitors which makes it not worthwhile to put on
> >women only events.
>
> Chicken & egg situation

Do you have a suggestion?

> >Were you taken in by Millar then? I was.
>
> yes, I was. But that doesn't mean I'll assume that because
> Millar cheated that Nicole does.

No-one is saying that. But so many top cyclists have said
they are 'clean' only to be found out later. worse, many are
still riding having received little more than a slapped
wrist. The punishments dished out seem more for having teh
stupdity of being caught rather that for actually taking the
drugs. It is hardly surprising that cycling racing has the
reputation it has.

> >I was wrong, as were many others including the WCPP which
> >he could have completely destroyed. Cycle racing has lost
> >its way.
>
> I honestly don't think the drugs issue in cycling is any
> worse then in any other major sport.

I don't know. but in any case I find the allegations often
bandied about that athletes and footballers may be far worse
completely irrelevant. Indeed the introduction of such
claims emphasises the perception that excuses are being made
rather than taking the actions required.

> But look at it now coming out of the woodwork as regards
> top-level athletics. We hear about footballers taking
> "recreational" drugs, yet they aren't banned from playing
> football it seems.

> >There are parents pulling their kids out of the sport due
> >to the drugs issue.
>
> Entirely possible, but if they are,

No *if*. They are.

> then I think they are being *over* cynical,

Sorry, but when they see young riders dying then I wouldn't
call that being *over* cynical.

> >It seems so endemic that it can now be argued that to be
> >cynical is responsible.
>
> I think it's defeatist.

I'd call it realistic.

Drug-taking has been around in top-level sport for a
> very, very long time - not just cycling.

That comes across as an excuse again. let's give life bans
to all those caught. Let's see the cheats thrown out of the
sport for good as soon as they test positive. Let's not
keep accepting excuses like "it was really for my mother-in-
law's dog".

> It needs to be exposed in all sports.

Of course. But i'd like to see cycling stop trying to play
the problem down by saying other sports are worse.

> I'm not exactly certain why so much focus is given on the
> issue of drug-taking in cycling, as I think it's pretty
> clear clear it goes on in top-level *sport* and I'm sure
> the lower ranks of *sport* trying to emulate their heroes
> and heroines will have people who cheat too.

Unfortunately true.

> But what I won't do is be as cynical about *all* top-level
> cyclists as you appear to be

Having had a friend (and a promising young international)
die when having gone to race in Holland, and been involved
in most levels of cycle racing for a long time I cannot see
that improvements will be made without drastic measures. I'd
like to see far more draconian penalties, including the
greater introduction of the sporting fraud charges against
the cheats. And far far too many have lied through their
teeth in their attempts to claim they are 'Clean" Not to be
cynical in the face of such a background smells of pushing
issue under the carpet.

> She's a stunningly brilliant rider never mind a good
> rider.

Agreed.

John B

wafflycathcs@aol.comcomcom (dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers) wrote in message news:<20040712045519.05810.00000918@mb-m27.aol.com>...

> I honestly don't think the drugs issue in cycling is any
> worse then in any other major sport. I do, however, think
> that it gets more publicity in cycling than in other
> sports. This is not condoning the drugs taking
> - I *loathe* it - it is cheating.

It's not just cheating, it's damaging or completely
destroying the health of athletes.

> But look at it now coming out of the woodwork as regards
> top-level athletics. We hear about footballers taking
> "recreational" drugs, yet they aren't banned from playing
> football it seems. Ullrich got done for taking
> "recreational" stuff.

Recreational drug taking is a completely separate issue
AFAIAC. Testing for performance enhancing drugs simply makes
it more likely to be detected.

--
Dave...

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 14:35:03 GMT someone who may be Simon Brooke
<simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote this:-

>it remains the case that professional cyclists sustain
>substantially greater power outputs over substantially
>longer periods than any other human athletes, so either
>Lance Armstrong could make a clean sweep of all the gold
>medals in all disciplines at this year's Olympics, or
>there's something else going on.

One of the things that is going on is that these athletes
are using a machine that is three times as efficient as
walking (and I assume running). The cyclists' feats of
athleticism don't surprise me, especially as I have seen
people who run in competitions amazed at how far and fast
they can go on a bike.

Personally I have little interest in cycle racing, though I
do appreciate the hard work that goes into it in much the
same way as I understand the hard work that goes into rowing
races. I suspect that we will soon see them pedalling
exercise bikes the way "safety" is going. As someone with
little interest I am concerned if people harm themselves in
"going for gold". However, harming oneself need not be by
taking (some) drugs, there are a number of other ways of
harming oneself and I'm not convinced that (some) drugs are
the worst way of harming oneself while competing in
athletics.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number
F566DA0E I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK
government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

"Dave Kahn" <dkahn400@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:57db8bde.0407120835.3bf3821b@posting.google.com...
> wafflycathcs@aol.comcomcom
> (dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers) wrote in
message news:<20040712045519.05810.00000918@mb-
m27.aol.com>...

>
> > But look at it now coming out of the woodwork as regards
> > top-level athletics. We hear about footballers taking
> > "recreational" drugs, yet they aren't banned from
> > playing football it seems. Ullrich got done for taking
> > "recreational" stuff.
>
> Recreational drug taking is a completely separate issue
> AFAIAC. Testing for performance enhancing drugs simply
> makes it more likely to be detected.

Yes. The idea that, for example, a footballer might be
trying to improve his performance by smoking dope is
strange. He may be accused of all sorts of things but I
don't think cheating is one of them.

tony R.

tony R hesiod3@hotmail.com opined the following...
> Yes. The idea that, for example, a footballer might be
> trying to improve his performance by smoking dope is
> strange. He may be accused of all sorts of things but I
> don't think cheating is one of them.

The only reason I could ever think of for dope being a
"banned substance" in sport was that it might increase the
pain threshold. This effect would probably be more than
mitigated by the fact that the athlete would be unlikely to
make it more than a few yards before collapsing on the
floor and giggling, especially in a sport like cycling
where the contestants often look even more ridiculous than
other sports.

Jon

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers wrote:

> Cynicism of that high a level is downright destructive
> and achieves naught.

Cycling of that high a level is downright destructive and
achieves naught?

Just a thought :-)

(I don't mean to single out NC by that, obviously her
achievements are little short of astonishing - but as for
pro cycling in general...)

James
--
If I have seen further than others, it is by treading on the
toes of giants. http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers wrote:
>
> >
> >Do you have a suggestion?
>
> Yes, but probably not for print.
>
> >No-one is saying that
>
> Really? Your quote of "although with my cynic's hat on,
> what she is saying is just what everyone always says." is
> pretty clear in its meaning.

The meaning is that it is the same as what Millar and all
the others have said. No more no less. The liars have
dragged teh innocent fair-playing riders into the mess with
them. As so many who expressed innocence have subsequently
proved to have been cheating it affects the perception of
the whole peloton. When I now see a professional race i now
no longer can be sure if any of them are cheating or not and
i'm not alone. that is a sad reflection on how deep rooted
the problem now is.

> >It is hardly surprising that cycling racing has the
> >reputation it has.
>
> I'm not saying that cheats should be let off, nor am I
> saying that it's not as bad as other sports, what I am
> saying as I don't think other sports are any more clean.
> As far as I am concerned, Millar and any other cheat
> should be barred for life and have their earnings from
> cheating confiscated. I also think the people who
> encouraged, supplied and supported drug-taking within a
> team or to any individual sports' person should have
> similar sanction against them. I see no difference between
> the drug-pusher on the street corner and the drug-pusher
> in the peloton, in the gym, changing room, pitch, track or
> field. This should be the same for *any* sport. What I
> find surprising is the apparent lack of the same level of
> interest in exposing drugs in other sports as there is in
> exposing drugs in cycling. This does *not* mean that I
> think any cycling cheat should be let off or treated
> lightly.
>
> >Indeed the introduction of such claims emphasises the
> >perception that excuses are being made rather than taking
> >the actions required.
>
> Wrong

Then we will have to agree to disagree.

> , see above. What I won't do, however, is single out
> cycling as being *the* sport to be abhorred for having a
> drug-problem.

But cycling is the activity I am passionate about and wish
to see develop and grow whereas TBH I couldn't care less
about weight-lifting, football or hitting coloured balls
down pockets, all of which are known to have drug problems.
Those sports (and others) should clean themselves up too. I
make no apologies for singling cycling out, because I know
little about the other sports and can have some, albeit
limited, influence in cycling circles.

> >Of course. But i'd like to see cycling stop trying to
> >play the problem down by saying other sports are worse.
>
> I don't think it is generally. What I do think is other
> sports perhaps being more successful at hiding it than
> cycling combined with a media interested in putting
> cycling in a negative light much more than a positive one.

Quite possibly. Perhaps many in the media see cyclists as
being a good group to have an occasional pop at.

> >Having had a friend (and a promising young international)
> >die when having gone to race in Holland, and been
> >involved in most levels of cycle racing for a long time I
> >cannot see that improvements will be made without drastic
> >measures.
>
> I agree with all of that, all I am saying is don't be
> so cynical as to think the issue is only *that* bad
> in cycling

? But I don't.

> nor to suggest heavily that Nicole Cooke is a drug-
> taker too.

That is a completely unfounded comment.

John B

dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers wrote:
>
> >
> >Do you have a suggestion?
>
> Yes, but probably not for print.

This was a serious question. What do you think would
encourage more girls and women into cycle racing?

John B

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 14:49:20 GMT, in <40F296AA.DE4CB08A@here.com>,
JohnB <nospam@here.com> wrote:

>dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Do you have a suggestion?
>>
>> Yes, but probably not for print.
>
>This was a serious question. What do you think would
>encourage more girls and women into cycle racing?
>
>John B

And the non-serious answer is "Remove the saddles"

--
DISCLAIMER: My email box is private property.Email which
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desire, form a legal and binding contract.

> >
> >This was a serious question. What do you think would
> >encourage more girls and women into cycle racing?
> >
> >John B
>
> And the non-serious answer is "Remove the saddles"
>
>

ROFL!

Whatever, lets just get more... fit women in lycra are hot,
full stop. I still regularly look at the pics I took of La
Grande Boucle Feminine in France 2 years ago :-)

2nd down, 2nd in is still my fav!
http://www.msa.fotopic.net/c9043.html

I'll put my PC hat back on now, sorry :-)

--
Mark (MSA) This post is packaged by intellectual weight, not
volume. Some settling of contents may have occurred during
transmission

John B wondered:
>>What do you think would encourage more girls and women
>>into cycle racing?

and Richard Bates suggested:
> And the non-serious answer is "Remove the saddles"

Or maybe just route as much of the ride as possible
over pavé :-)

--
Danny Colyer (the UK company has been laughed out of my
reply address)
<URL:http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/> (http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/danny/) "He who
dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine

MSA wrote:
>
> Whatever, lets just get more... fit women in lycra are
> hot, full stop. I still regularly look at the pics I took
> of La Grande Boucle Feminine in France 2 years ago :-)
>
> 2nd down, 2nd in is still my fav!
> http://www.msa.fotopic.net/c9043.html
>

Someone gets to massage those legs after the race.

Sorry

--
Andy Morris

AndyAtJinkasDotFreeserve.Co.UK

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