dangerous substance???

[Gadget]

I was pacing with a mate of mine down the A10, doing about 25 mph, down the cycle path. He was in
front and I was about 2 metres behind him and a little to the left of him. He goes through this
puddle, about an inch deep, with both wheels. I just miss this puddle but I noticed some strange
reaction happenning on both his wheels. They were dissolving and chunks had started to fall of the
tyres. This prompted him to slam on his brakes and come to a halt. As we looked over his bike,
paint, rubber and plastic was peeling or dissolving in front of our eyes. Lucky for him his crud
catcher had prevented him getting any of the liquid in his eyes or on his skin. We called the police
and they took a sample of what was left in the puddle. It was a clear-ish liquid with a yellow tint
and about as thick as water. So far the metal has shown no signs of corrosion, but the grease on his
chain has dissovled off his chain. I was wondering if any one would know what this substance was. I
am also posting this as warning to any one who uses the A10 cycle path, to watch out in case their
is some nut doing this on purpose. The incident happened near the north circular/A10 junction. The
police had the council come out and spray the path clean, but please be careful.

Gadget

[Mr R@T \ -Lsqco]

.In news:naJca.466$K66.395@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk, Gadget
<Gadgetfreak_2000@blueyonder.co.uk> typed:

> thick as water. So far the metal has shown no signs of corrosion, but the grease on his chain has
> dissovled off his chain. I was wondering if any one would know what this substance was.

**** - this is a very nasty incident indeed.

Given the lack of corrosion on the metal and the way the rubber dissolved I would suspect an organic
solvent such as xylene, toluene or worse stiill a halogenated derivative thereof. All of these
things can certainly attack grease, oil and rubber, and some of them will dissolve paintwork (they
are often used as solvents for enamel paints).

Of course, Any of the brainy people here with better chemical knowledge (Simon M?) are welcome to
add their thoughts

Thanks for the heads up - I am really worried that this *could* be *deliberate* contamination of the
road surface - there appears (from the description you have given) to be too *little* of it to be an
*accidental* spill from a tanker - a spill normally ends up with the old bill, council and
Environment Agency/Defra becoming aware quite quickly, and road closures, which people would have
known about.

Even if someone is "just" dumping unwanted solvent from whatever back-yard chemical process, this is
an offence against EU environment protection regs, and the fact this stuff ended up in the cycle
lane is shocking.

What did the Police have to say about the incident? You may wish to consider notifying the Press as
well, although bear in mind if someone is reading the paper and thinks "wow! look at the trouble I
caused!" it could lead to "copy-cat" incidents.

Alex

[W K]

"Mr R@t (2.3 zulu-alpha) [comms room 2]" <ratsnest23@sovtel.su> wrote in message
news:4KJca.1310$b65.259@newsfep1-gui.server.ntli.net...
> .In news:naJca.466$K66.395@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk, Gadget
> <Gadgetfreak_2000@blueyonder.co.uk> typed:
>
> > thick as water. So far the metal has shown no signs of corrosion, but the grease on his chain
> > has dissovled off his chain. I was wondering if any one would know what this substance was.
>
> **** - this is a very nasty incident indeed.
>
> Given the lack of corrosion on the metal and the way the rubber dissolved
I
> would suspect an organic solvent such as xylene, toluene or worse stiill a halogenated derivative
> thereof. All of these things can certainly attack grease, oil and rubber, and some of them will
> dissolve paintwork (they are often used as solvents for enamel paints).

Does sound like some sort of organic solvent, but I would have thought there would have been a very
obvious smell.

I'd go for the fly-tipping theory - such substances are supposed to have fairly tightly regulated
and presumably expensive disposal.

[Mr R@T \ -Lsqco]

In news:b4vslh$k8i$1@helle.btinternet.com, W K <hyagillot@tesco.net> typed:

> Does sound like some sort of organic solvent, but I would have thought there would have been a
> very obvious smell.
>

Could have been masked by wind or traffic fumes (remember, they are next to the A10). Halogenated
aromatics seem to have less "smell" than xylene or toluene in their pure form.

> I'd go for the fly-tipping theory - such substances are supposed to have fairly tightly regulated
> and presumably expensive disposal.

Indeed so, and IIRC the rules have become *more* stringent perhaps as of this year, especially with
regard to the protection of the environment. Anyone else noticed how that rather alarming sign with
a picture of dead tree and dead fish floating on a contaminated river is turning up more frequently
on solvent bottles?

Even so, it begs the question - *why* in the *cycle lane?* If it is fly-tipping, I get the
impression that this could be the work of a pissed-off person in the chemical industry thinking -

"F**king eco-warrior types! Hmm, this stuff dissolves rubber. I could seriously f*ck up their
bikes if it were to end up in the cycle lane. Perhaps one of them may even crash..."

Perhaps partly my paranoia, but IME people who are sociopathic enough to fly-tip nasty chemicals are
just as capable of finding *other* evil things to do with them.

Alex

[dannyfrankszzz]

That's seriously worrying as I also live near that part of London. I'll be looking out. Good call for pointing this out.

[Pete Biggs]

Thanks for the warning and well done for calling the police (a lot of people wouldn't have
bothered).

~PB

[Simon Mason]

"Mr R@t \(2.3 zulu-alpha\) [comms room 2]" <ratsnest23@sovtel.su> wrote in message
news:<4KJca.1310$b65.259@newsfep1-gui.server.ntli.net>...
> .In news:naJca.466$K66.395@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk, Gadget
> <Gadgetfreak_2000@blueyonder.co.uk> typed:
>
> > thick as water. So far the metal has shown no signs of corrosion, but the grease on his chain
> > has dissovled off his chain. I was wondering if any one would know what this substance was.
>
> **** - this is a very nasty incident indeed.
>
> Given the lack of corrosion on the metal and the way the rubber dissolved I would suspect an
> organic solvent such as xylene, toluene or worse stiill a halogenated derivative thereof. All of
> these things can certainly attack grease, oil and rubber, and some of them will dissolve paintwork
> (they are often used as solvents for enamel paints).

You are probably right Alex. At first I thought it was EMK (Ethyl Methyl Ketone)as this is a well
known paint remover, but as this is miscible in water and the police managed to get a sample of the
liquid on its own, it would appear to be an aromatic or chlorinated hydrocarbon, like you described.

It is unlikely to be a pure solvent, more likely a mixture used in perhaps the painting and
decorating trade. They wouldn't chuck the pure stuff away so maybe it was a job lot of used paint
thinners for cleaning brushes (at a guess)perhaps with trichloroethylene as a major component (which
attacks rubber and paint).

Although I've got my bike here at work and a load of "trike" I'm not going to see what happens if I
spray the stuff on it ;-)

Simon Mason

[Mr R@T \ -Lsqco]

In news:8862a1cc.0303160400.5cd62489@posting.google.com, Simon Mason <MasonS@BP.com> typed:

<A10 cycle lane solvent abuse>

> perhaps the painting and decorating trade. They wouldn't chuck the pure stuff away so maybe it was
> a job lot of used paint thinners for cleaning brushes (at a guess)perhaps with trichloroethylene
> as a major component (which attacks rubber and paint).

Yep - this seems feasible. It still begs the question of *why* a flytipper would dump it on the
cycle path (and draw attention to themselves), when presumably it could have been dumped *elsewhere*
and maybe gone relatively unnoticed - apart of course from the cumulative damage to the environment.

Although of course there isn't evidence to suspect any kind of *organised* campaign against
cyclists, I can see how someone in the chemical or construction industry *would* do this, having
somehow ended up with surplus solvent that now has to be disposed of in a manner that pushes the
cost *back* to them. Whether contaminating the cycle lane was a primary intention, or just slipped
into the polluters head is another matter.

Consider this scenario:

1. White van man doesn't like the new rules - he's just been quoted a high price for
solvent disposal
2. He thinks "eco-warriors" are responsible for this new unwanted cost to his business.
3. Of course, all *cyclists* are eco-warriors ;)
4. So there he is, driving along the A10 . He spots the cycle lane. Look at those bastards/bitches,
they are taking up my road space/tax money and they "don't even pay tax on their bikes"- and now
they have *even got a bit of road just for their filthy bikes!*
5. Aha - I know how I can get rid of this solvent *and* get back at the eco-warriors at the
same time...

OK this may sound paranoid - but from what I have read on pro-roads/cars groups I believe that there
are people out there prepared to do stuff like this - after all if they will smash speed cameras,
its only another step down the line.

Again well done to the OP for telling us and the authorities and I hope the coppers *do* find out
the full story - before someone is hurt.

Alex