Do you think lance is doping? yes or no

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No flame wars please, just want to get an idea of people view on this. Thanks, MichaelIT HAS BEEN WRITTEN THAT SOME OF HIS ONGOING MEDICATION FOR THE CANCER ALSO HELPS CIRCULATION, YOU WOULD SUSPECT THAT, SO IT PROBABLY HELPS RECOVERY.

I think that Lance is clean. I think the reason he walks all over the tour is two fold.

One - his personal training and commitment mindset
and
Two - His team.

The team exit only for Lance on the tour with no hidden agendas. There appears to be no space for egos on the team and they must save Lance a hell of a lot of effort overall compared to the slapstick antics of some of the other 'teams' where it appears to be every man for himself but lets wear the same jerseys.
cheers
Mick

I think that Lance is clean. I think the reason he walks all over the tour is two fold.

One - his personal training and commitment mindset
and
Two - His team.

The team exit only for Lance on the tour with no hidden agendas. There appears to be no space for egos on the team and they must save Lance a hell of a lot of effort overall compared to the slapstick antics of some of the other 'teams' where it appears to be every man for himself but lets wear the same jerseys.
cheers
Mick

Irrespective of the time commitment to training, an athlete's ability to train hard is limited by their ability to recover. Mindset cannot overcome the perils of overtraining.

TdF is won in the mountains and ITT's. No team presence in individual time trials nor can a team member assist in overcoming the forces of gravity in the mountains. A team member climber, Like Roberto Heras, was used to keep the pace high to prevent other teams from attacking his team leader.

All riders had to put out the wattage required (rider + bike weight) to maintain the speed of the bunch so as not to be dropped. Wheel sucking in the mountains only has a slight benefit if the pace is high. You don't see riders calling someone to do a turn or complain later that a rider benefited cos he sat on a wheel all the way up the mountains.

Of course he uses doping: his doctor Michele Ferrari has given doping to dozens of riders.

(1) to date, at least over 700 registered users feel the same way i do... armstrong is a doper - [assuming that everyone answered honestly].

(2) question: any of you out there have the opinion that armstrong is:
(a) basically just another arrogant texan ?
(b) in no way shape or manner measures up to the real greats of cycling ?

(1) to date, at least over 700 registered users feel the same way i do... armstrong is a doper - [assuming that everyone answered honestly].

(2) question: any of you out there have the opinion that armstrong is:
(a) basically just another arrogant texan ?
(b) in no way shape or manner measures up to the real greats of cycling ?
Don't the people who now say that Lance is doping also say that all the other greats were on it as well? Drugs have been in the sport for a hundred years.
If Lance wins this one it won't be because he is on better dope than the others, or a better bike.

http://www.stolenunderground.com/doper_of_the_month

Not so fast Don Shipp.

Pre cancer Lance blood chemistry---oxygen flow vrs his post cancer oxygen transfer and flow---not the same sauce. Not the same sustainable power curve.

Ferrari had successes with Moser (assisted) Berzin and Rominger before he found Lance. Doping to train, not training to dope.

Michele Ferrari deserves your respect or contempt, not LA---he is only a passenger of that doping train.

LA & Ferrari dope better than the rest---and so too the entire Discovery Team.

Can donkeys sprint? Well George Hincapie can suddenly time trial and climb mountains---blowing out Santiago Botero, Christophe Moreau, Iban Mayo, and other elite climbers. A work ethic or pep talk cannot make that a reality. Drugs can!

That is seriously toxic 'go-fast juice'.

It is obvious that LA is on stuff different than the others. It is an Arms Race--which Ferrari has won.
So you are saying....you think Lance does dope.
But seriously, is he being allowed to use, as legitimate cancer treatment, a drug which gives him such an advantage?
There really is only one argument that still exists in my mind to counter all your claims: the number of injections required each day would eventually destroy the veins that they inject into. The physical damage of all those jabs could not remain concealed. Whatever doping is going on, it must be at a lower level than you say.

So you are saying....you think Lance does dope.
But seriously, is he being allowed to use, as legitimate cancer treatment, a drug which gives him such an advantage?
There really is only one argument that still exists in my mind to counter all your claims: the number of injections required each day would eventually destroy the veins that they inject into. The physical damage of all those jabs could not remain concealed. Whatever doping is going on, it must be at a lower level than you say.


I don't believe he has taken any cancer treatments in years, but I could be wrong.
I haven't really researched it. This is just what I remember hearing.

All the boys are doing cancer/chemo recovery therapies.

Why do EPO, HBOBs and blood transfusions (Tyler) is you are not ill?

To win or get a small result, help your team, get selected, get paid, obey your coach, be a professional?

If TDF riders use more recovery dope than cancer
and anemia patients you would not have such widespread scandals (PDM, Festina, TVM, Cofidis, Kelme, Liquigas)

Blood boosting is a form of therapy---and a requirement for racing in the Tour.

Some do it better than others.

Let me re-phrase. I don't believe Lance is taking any thing to "Treat his cancer".

Maybe he uses a catheter.

Or ask Emma O'Reilly she carried his makeup at USPO.

Do you look at his crotch and abdomin areas?---that is where 90% of the injections are going.I certainly would not want to examine his crotch, and I wouldn't want to stick a needle in my own.
People who inject themselves on a regular basis, either because they are addicts or because they are on medication, suffer chronic damage to their veins. Make up couldn't disguise it, not if they are injecting on the scale that you indicate. Also, the risk of infection would be very high however much care they were taking, riders would be dropping out with blood poisoning all along the way.
How many times a day do you think that needles are being driven into the rider's blood vessels, over how many days?

Late....but WOW, just wow. I cant beleive how many think he DOES NOT dope.

*shakes head*. Do I hold less respect for him or the top riders? No way, but Im not gonna pretend they dont dope. How naive can you be?
and yes, ive heard straight from top amateur and some pro riders all about doping.

Many athletes dope in all kinds of sport. Some sports, it is needed to compete/win and cycling is one of those sports, plain and simple!

I've never been to prudish about the use of illegal substances- to me, it's your body. I understand pro sports' interest in "protecting the integrity of the game" and arguably, not sending the wrong message to junior or developing riders.

I suppose the above argument is a good one but I find myself taking issue with it after reading many of your posts - the most powerful argument against the "no drug" policy stems from the information from medical experts who support the use of various drugs for intense endurance athletes. I've always wondered (but never researched) what the long-term protective effect of many UCI illegal drugs might be. Our goal is to protect the athletes, correct?

It doesn't make sense to me that a governing body would sanction events and courses which, according to medical experts, are ultimately harmful to the human body - and subsequently ban substances which would protect the riders' health.

Truth is, cycling does not analogize well with most sports due to its intensity and physical demands (baseball, for example, comes immediately to mind). I have read literature which supports the argument that the long term effects of endurance training at the highest levels is very likely and seriously detrimental. It would appear that the riders who DON'T dope are crazy, not vice-versa.

Does the UCI even acknowledge such medical evidence?

I've never been to prudish about the use of illegal substances- to me, it's your body. I understand pro sports' interest in "protecting the integrity of the game" and arguably, not sending the wrong message to junior or developing riders.

I suppose the above argument is a good one but I find myself taking issue with it after reading many of your posts - the most powerful argument against the "no drug" policy stems from the information from medical experts who support the use of various drugs for intense endurance athletes. I've always wondered (but never researched) what the long-term protective effect of many UCI illegal drugs might be. Our goal is to protect the athletes, correct?

It doesn't make sense to me that a governing body would sanction events and courses which, according to medical experts, are ultimately harmful to the human body - and subsequently ban substances which would protect the riders' health.

Truth is, cycling does not analogize well with most sports due to its intensity and physical demands (baseball, for example, comes immediately to mind). I have read literature which supports the argument that the long term effects of endurance training at the highest levels is very likely and seriously detrimental. It would appear that the riders who DON'T dope are crazy, not vice-versa.

Does the UCI even acknowledge such medical evidence?

I don't see cyclist who don't dope as crazy, I see them as having morals. Cyclists who dope are cheats. Pretty simple really.

Isn't it great that there are some people left in the world who do have standard. :)

I don't see cyclist who don't dope as crazy, I see them as having morals. Cyclists who dope are cheats. Pretty simple really.

Isn't it great that there are some people left in the world who do have standard. :)One point that Flyer and others are making is that a good cyclist who dopes will beat a good cyclist with morals 10 times out of 10.

One point that Flyer and others are making is that a good cyclist who dopes will beat a good cyclist with morals 10 times out of 10.

Thanks for clarifying that for me. :rolleyes:

Maybe that is why people are so upset.

Thanks for clarifying that for me. :rolleyes:

Maybe that is why people are so upset.We would all be a lot happier if it could be demonstrated beyond any doubt whatsoever that the best riders never touched the stuff. The question is whether it is possible to believe that Lance or anyone else can win without doping.

I think Flyer would go one further and say a non-doper wont stand a chance to even finish an event.

The rules read (fairly) clearly in many languages; to break them is to cheat. Regarding any particular athlete, I acknowledge the responses from the various posters and choose not to offer my opinion ...

The point I wanted to make in my post is that the cycling season is brutal - further, any one event is brutal! Every season/every event is purposely designed to wreak havoc on the body's ability to respond and recover. We see top cyclists dropping out and not finishing - never mind simply not winning ... can we totally blame the cyclists when the events are purposely designed to be more and more difficult and implode the best endurance athletes?

Jep that's the whole case...........there are so many stories to doping! The people who make the route, WE as spectators want them to go fast and ride there asses of..........and then we have sponsors, team members, directeur sportifs who want the riders to win.........Wouldn't you dope??

Cheats are in all sports........and there can't be anything done about that......they will continue to beat the WADA and other organisations! Better live with it.....


The rules read (fairly) clearly in many languages; to break them is to cheat. Regarding any particular athlete, I acknowledge the responses from the various posters and choose not to offer my opinion ...

The point I wanted to make in my post is that the cycling season is brutal - further, any one event is brutal! Every season/every event is purposely designed to wreak havoc on the body's ability to respond and recover. We see top cyclists dropping out and not finishing - never mind simply not winning ... can we totally blame the cyclists when the events are purposely designed to be more and more difficult and implode the best endurance athletes?