View Full Version : Lance Armstrong rides aged tubulars
Hi MIke,
>Lance doesn't get flats... period. He's known for having rather exceptional
>luck that way. But it's not because his tires are well-aged.
Aged tubbies are obviously a red wine herring. Why are they so few
flats on Planet Lance?
Kirby.
Quoting <SocSecTrainWreck@earthlink.net>:
>carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
>>If there's any data showing that 7-year-cicadas--er, tires
>>have a lower rolling resistance, that would be interesting,
>>but it's unlikely that the difference would amount to 10
>>seconds in a stage.
>There have been breakaways that were either caught <10 seconds before
>the finish or whose finishing margin after being away for half the
>stage was <10 seconds.
Yes, but that's not the difficulty here; the difficulty is that that
figure of 10 seconds has been pulled out of Carl's posterior.
That finishes are to within 10 seconds would only make a 10 seconds/stage
difference in RR significant if riders rode completely isolated from each
other. When a breakaway's made right at the finish, the rider behind
hasn't been gradually slipping backwards by 1 second every 20 kilometres
because of high tyre RR...
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
Today is First Saturday, Presuary - a weekend.
Mike Krueger wrote:
..
>
> I began this thread because I found the it interesting that a
> documentary which focused the "scientific" aspects of Lance's
> performance attempted to promote a notion that is usually disspelled
> here, that is that "aging" rubber tires somehow improves them, like
> fine wine. I did not post the mechanic's specific assertion that aging
> the tire made the rubber softer, because it made such little sense to
> me when I heard it that I thought I had misinterpreted what he said.
> But, the same Belgian mechanic, name of DeVriese, is also mentioned in
> the book, "Lance Armstrong's War," by Daniel Coyle, and the same point
> is made. It says aging the tires in his basement at least two years
> adds to their suppleness and strength. Now, I'm wondering which is it?
> How can the tire magically become more supple and stronger at the same
> time? Which leads to an even more interesting question, does Lance
> Armstrong put his trust in a charlatan?
Why does it matter? If some here, like Jobst, thinks it's bugle oil, ya
think Julien is going to stop?
Bicycles in europe have enjoyed a rep for over a century as a great
machine that does many amazing things. Cyclists are things of legend,
known to all in Europe and it's not surprizing that things like aging
tubies and tying and soldering wheels(remember Indurain's bikes? all
had T&S wheels)is mentioned.
Don't be surprized that in the US, w/o Lance, nobody would even know
there is a 'Tour of France', and the bicycle is just a toy that youi
have as a kid and then you look at it hung in the garage as an adult.
So I'm not surprized there are 'old Italian's, Belgian's, French's'
tales about the bicycle and what makes them better.Geeezzz, I never
hang a bicycle wheel or complete bike so the hook is at the label
either, so what.
OBTW-I keep my tubies in a warm garage, date them so I use the oldest
first.
> ... does Lance Armstrong put his trust in a charlatan?
Who, Carmichael or Ferrari ? :-)
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> Geeezzz, I never
> hang a bicycle wheel or complete bike so the hook is at the label
> either, so what.
Hadn't heard that one. Weak spot? Don't want a "mark" where it's more
likely noticed?
> OBTW-I keep my tubies in a warm garage, date them
What a man does in the privacy of his home...
Avoiding imagery, Bill S.
>>Lance doesn't get flats... period. He's known for having rather
>>exceptional
>>luck that way. But it's not because his tires are well-aged.
>
> Aged tubbies are obviously a red wine herring. Why are they so few
> flats on Planet Lance?
They say that good luck is often created, and that might be the case with
Lance. Smarter (and strong) riders position themselves closer to the front
of a pack, where there are fewer crashes and you've got better visibility of
the road (so you're less-likely to hit something). Stronger riders are also
less likely to be blindly following the wheel in front of them (and
surprised when a pothole suddenly appears).
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> We could look at something as simple as grease on crank axle surfaces, which
> I would not allow done in our shop, ever. My experience, from the old days
> of BMX, was that greased cranks became loose & failed far more often than
> their non-greased cousins. The sample size for this was fairly large, the
> accuracy very hight (easy to verify grease vs non-greased) and the amount of
> time it happend over fairly small (due to the extremely-abusive conditions
> the cranks operated under, any failures or problems would show up quickly).
> However, Jobst Brandt, in the FAQ on the subject, states that it shouldn't
> matter if the cranks are greased or not. For reference, the FAQ is here-
> http://www.faqs.org/faqs/bicycles-faq/part4/;
Yes, JB says the greased tapers will soon make metal-metal contact with
the crank. But where greasing "matters" is (quoting from that link):
<Regardless, whether grease or no grease is used, in use the spindle
and crank will make metal to metal contact and cause fretting
corrosion for all but the lightest riders. The purpose of the
lubricant is to give a predictable press fit for a known torque. If
the spindle is completely dry this cannot be said, and even with
marginal lubrication, some galling may occur on installation.
Lubrication is only used to guarantee a proper press because the
lubricant is displaced from the interface in use. Taper faces of
spindles show erosion and rouge after substantial use, evidence that
the lubricant was displaced.>
Around we go. --TP
"Mike Krueger" <skubanut@aol.com> wrote in news:1119988071.166866.292550
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
> Discovery Channel aired a TV documentary yesterday entitled, "The
> Science of Lance Armstrong". In one segment, Lance's longtime Belgian
> mechanic was profiled. He took the camera crew down into his "wine
> cellar", where he stores scores of tubular tires for the pro team. He
> had stacks of tires specifically designated for Paris-Roubaix, the
> other spring classics, and, of course, the Tour De France, for which he
> claimed the tubular tires had been specially *aging* for up to seven
> years to improve their performance characteristics. This guy's been a
> pro mechanic for 40 years, so he might know something about the
> subject.
> Comments?
>
I think Lance and Discovery are having some fun with us for mis-information
puposes. That mechanic *said* that he aged the tires but it was probably
just to keep all Lance's competitors guessing. They did the same thing a
few years ago with the whole emphasis on stretching and how important that
was. Notice there was not one mention of stretching in all these pre-tour
Lance/Discovery/Nike/Giro/Trek/HED commercials/shows they've been running
like crazy.
In article <1120167336.983291.213340@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"bfd" <bfd853@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Terry states:
>
> <Summary: rubber products get worse with age, not better. >
>
> This is true. But, the FAQ also states "tubular tires bought in advance
> should be sealed tightly in airtight bags and kept in the dark,
> optimally in a freezer." I would guess that this GURU pro mechanic's
> "wine cellar" is pretty much dark and cold and probably as good as way
> as any in storing his tubulars....
Storing in a cool, dark place is certainly better than leaving out
in the sun.
But unless the "wine cellar" is pneumatically sealed, it will allow
ozone to attack the rubber. Sealed in a bag is still the best way to
store rubber products.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
DC <dangerdotcharlie@gmail.com> wrote:
>I think Lance and Discovery are having some fun with us for mis-information
>puposes. That mechanic *said* that he aged the tires but it was probably
>just to keep all Lance's competitors guessing. They did the same thing a
>few years ago with the whole emphasis on stretching and how important that
>was. Notice there was not one mention of stretching in all these pre-tour
>Lance/Discovery/Nike/Giro/Trek/HED commercials/shows they've been running
>like crazy.
Now THAT makes sense... I can just picture Lance at the starting line
looking at all the old tubies that his rivals have dug up and laughing
knowing that he's riding "freshies"... heh. It wouldn't be the first
time he employed psyops on the other teams.
Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame
"Terry Morse" <tmorse@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:tmorse-DE89C0.07465303072005@news.covad.net...
> In article <1120167336.983291.213340@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "bfd" <bfd853@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Sealed in a bag is still the best way to store rubber products.
Yep, just don't carry aging tubulars in your wallet. :)
Lee
Terry Morse wrote:
> Sealed in a bag is still the best way to store rubber products.
Seems like either Jobst or Sheldon recommended storing tires in the
freezer to preserve 'em. My tubulars get aged in a garage closet. The
temp out there was hovering around 105F the other day.
Greg Hall
"Mark Hickey" <mark@habcycles.com> wrote in message
news:jjufc1ppm7b9bh4nj021qm8fiahpk7mafo@4ax.com...
> DC <dangerdotcharlie@gmail.com> wrote:
<snipped>
> Now THAT makes sense... I can just picture Lance at the starting line
> looking at all the old tubies that his rivals have dug up and laughing
> knowing that he's riding "freshies"... heh. It wouldn't be the first
> time he employed psyops on the other teams.
.. . . and I can see them all laughing at the first corner when their aged
glue keeps their tyres in place while his new glue lets the tub roll off the
rim.
Tom.
On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 20:59:12 +0100, Tom Orr wrote:
>
> "Mark Hickey" <mark@habcycles.com> wrote in message
> news:jjufc1ppm7b9bh4nj021qm8fiahpk7mafo@4ax.com...
>> DC <dangerdotcharlie@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> <snipped>
>
>> Now THAT makes sense... I can just picture Lance at the starting line
>> looking at all the old tubies that his rivals have dug up and laughing
>> knowing that he's riding "freshies"... heh. It wouldn't be the first
>> time he employed psyops on the other teams.
>
> . . . and I can see them all laughing at the first corner when their aged
> glue keeps their tyres in place while his new glue lets the tub roll off the
> rim.
What, you think the _glue_ is 7 years old?
--
David L. Johnson
__o | And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all
_`\(,_ | mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so
(_)/ (_) | that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am
nothing. [1 Corinth. 13:2]
David L. Johnson wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 20:59:12 +0100, Tom Orr wrote:
>
<snipped>
> What, you think the _glue_ is 7 years old?
Since the shellac layer on a beadless rim is never removed but built up over
years why not?
Tom.
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>They say that good luck is often created, and that might be the case with
>Lance. Smarter (and strong) riders position themselves closer to the front
>of a pack, where there are fewer crashes and you've got better visibility of
>the road (so you're less-likely to hit something). Stronger riders are also
>less likely to be blindly following the wheel in front of them (and
>surprised when a pothole suddenly appears).
Nah, his reaction time is so fast, he sees glass an misses it. You
must have noticed how quick he went off road on that hair pin when the
rider in front went down and how he missed the drainage ditch, ect.
Wes
--
Reply to:
Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Alpha Charlie Echo Golf Romeo Oscar Paul dot Charlie Charlie
Lycos address is a spam trap.
Tom Orr <tomorr40nospam@nospamhotmail.com> wrote:
:> What, you think the _glue_ is 7 years old?
: Since the shellac layer on a beadless rim is never removed but built up over
: years why not?
That would assume that the tubs had been used before. I'd assumed that if they
are doing this they are buying new ones and storing them unused for the time.
--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera
Mark Hickey <mark@habcycles.com> wrote in
news:jjufc1ppm7b9bh4nj021qm8fiahpk7mafo@4ax.com:
> DC <dangerdotcharlie@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I think Lance and Discovery are having some fun with us for
>>mis-information puposes. That mechanic *said* that he aged the tires
>>but it was probably just to keep all Lance's competitors guessing.
>>They did the same thing a few years ago with the whole emphasis on
>>stretching and how important that was. Notice there was not one
>>mention of stretching in all these pre-tour
>>Lance/Discovery/Nike/Giro/Trek/HED commercials/shows they've been
>>running like crazy.
>
> Now THAT makes sense... I can just picture Lance at the starting line
> looking at all the old tubies that his rivals have dug up and laughing
> knowing that he's riding "freshies"... heh. It wouldn't be the first
> time he employed psyops on the other teams.
>
It just occurred to me... another piece of Lance misinformation was last
year with regard to his handlebars for Alp d'Huez. They were showing all
these strange aerobar combinations, some where he actually put his wrists
under the crossbars to grab the aerobars. All for aero speed up the
mountain, you know.
IIRC, didn't he just ride a normal bike for that time trial?
http://www.velonews.com/tour2004/details/articles/6631.0.html
On 6 Jul 2005 02:05:03 GMT, DC <dangerdotcharlie@gmail.com> wrote:
>Mark Hickey <mark@habcycles.com> wrote in
>news:jjufc1ppm7b9bh4nj021qm8fiahpk7mafo@4ax.com:
>
>> DC <dangerdotcharlie@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I think Lance and Discovery are having some fun with us for
>>>mis-information puposes. That mechanic *said* that he aged the tires
>>>but it was probably just to keep all Lance's competitors guessing.
>>>They did the same thing a few years ago with the whole emphasis on
>>>stretching and how important that was. Notice there was not one
>>>mention of stretching in all these pre-tour
>>>Lance/Discovery/Nike/Giro/Trek/HED commercials/shows they've been
>>>running like crazy.
>>
>> Now THAT makes sense... I can just picture Lance at the starting line
>> looking at all the old tubies that his rivals have dug up and laughing
>> knowing that he's riding "freshies"... heh. It wouldn't be the first
>> time he employed psyops on the other teams.
>>
>
>It just occurred to me... another piece of Lance misinformation was last
>year with regard to his handlebars for Alp d'Huez. They were showing all
>these strange aerobar combinations, some where he actually put his wrists
>under the crossbars to grab the aerobars. All for aero speed up the
>mountain, you know.
>
>IIRC, didn't he just ride a normal bike for that time trial?
>
>http://www.velonews.com/tour2004/details/articles/6631.0.html
Mostly normal. He at least ran the DT shift lever for the front der. Don't know
what else about the bike might have been stage specific, pretty sure he wasn't
running the usual wheels.
Ron
On 28 Jun 2005 12:47:51 -0700, "Mike Krueger" <skubanut@aol.com>
wrote:
>Discovery Channel aired a TV documentary yesterday entitled, "The
>Science of Lance Armstrong". In one segment, Lance's longtime Belgian
>mechanic was profiled. He took the camera crew down into his "wine
>cellar", where he stores scores of tubular tires for the pro team. He
>had stacks of tires specifically designated for Paris-Roubaix, the
>other spring classics, and, of course, the Tour De France, for which he
>claimed the tubular tires had been specially *aging* for up to seven
>years to improve their performance characteristics. This guy's been a
>pro mechanic for 40 years, so he might know something about the
>subject.
>Comments?
In case anybody missed the show and you have Bit Torrent, here it is,
aged tubulars and all --> http://www.mininova.org/tor/68256
J. Spaceman
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