View Full Version : Lance Armstrong rides aged tubulars
Discovery Channel aired a TV documentary yesterday entitled, "The
Science of Lance Armstrong". In one segment, Lance's longtime Belgian
mechanic was profiled. He took the camera crew down into his "wine
cellar", where he stores scores of tubular tires for the pro team. He
had stacks of tires specifically designated for Paris-Roubaix, the
other spring classics, and, of course, the Tour De France, for which he
claimed the tubular tires had been specially *aging* for up to seven
years to improve their performance characteristics. This guy's been a
pro mechanic for 40 years, so he might know something about the
subject.
Comments?
Aging adds nothing to a properly designed tire. It made natural rubber
a bit harder and longer wearing.
Yeah, I saw the same show. Really surprised me about aging the
tubulars. I don't know anyone riding them, so I do not know if this is
common practice for racing.
Its obvious this "GURU" pro mechanic with 40 years of experience hasn't
read the Bicycle FAQ:
What advantage is there in aging tubulars?
None! The aging concept arose from the same source as the "steel frames
need to be replaced because they get soft with age" concept. Both were
intended to improve sales during the off (winter) season by bike shops
with too much inventory on their shelves. Tires oxidize, outgas, and
polymerize from ultraviolet light. The concept of a tire manufacturer
making a tire that cannot be used until ripened for six months from the
date of purchase is ridiculous. Tires can be made to any specification
at the factory. Tires are most flexible and durable when they are new.
They don't improve with time and exposure to heat, light, and oxygen or
ozone.
"Over-aged" tubular tires, have crumbling hard brown latex on their
sidewalls that exposes separating cords directly to weather and wear
and they have treads crack when flexed. Considering that this is a
continuous process, it is hard to explain where, in the time from
manufacture to the crumbly condition, the optimum age lies. The claim
that tires are lighter after aging is true. Their elastomers have
evaporated making the tire brittle and weak.
Purchasing tubular tires in advance to age them is unwise, although if
there is a supply problem, tubular tires bought in advance should be
sealed tightly in airtight bags and kept in the dark, optimally in a
freezer. For best results, use new tires because aged tires are only as
good as how little they have aged.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/tubular-fables.html
This guy's been a
> pro mechanic for 40 years, so he might know something about the
> subject.
> Comments?
He may know very little about it, unless he has subjected his
assumptions to a controlled test.
The fascinating thing is that he can stock up on tires 7 years in
advance!... when he doesn't even know who he will be working for or
what their tire sponsor will be. Or do teams generally not use the
tires that their sponsors make? Are 7 year old tubulars readily
available? I didn't see the show BTW, so maybe this was explained.
-Ron Ruff
bfd wrote:
> Its obvious this "GURU" pro mechanic with 40 years of experience hasn't
> read the Bicycle FAQ:
>
> What advantage is there in aging tubulars?
> None!
Then again, Lance hasn't been known to have an exceptional number of
flats (even assuming Lance has actually been using this guy's tires).
Maybe there's something special in the vermin juices of this cellar.
I think that this guy is just making a few Euros for renting out his
old wine cellar!
itsa cover for a weed op!
Jay S. Hill wrote:
> bfd wrote:
>> Its obvious this "GURU" pro mechanic with 40 years of experience
>> hasn't read the Bicycle FAQ:
>>
>> What advantage is there in aging tubulars?
>> None!
>
> Then again, Lance hasn't been known to have an exceptional number of
> flats (even assuming Lance has actually been using this guy's tires).
> Maybe there's something special in the vermin juices of this cellar.
Hey, maybe he's perpetuating the myth "to improve sales during the off
(winter) season by bike shops
with too much inventory on their shelves. "
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training
datakoll@yahoo.com wrote:
> what do we smell here?
Garlic butter chicken with roasted garlic mashed potatoes and seasoned
broccoli followed by some red wine. Would you like some?
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training
"Mike Krueger" <skubanut@aol.com> wrote in message:
This guy's been a
> pro mechanic for 40 years, so he might know something about the
> subject.
> Comments?
>
Back in the mid-80's I recall an article in a cycling publication where a
mechanic for a pro team said they would re-use the same set of tubulars for
certain major races. He said that they would use a team set of Vittoria
Pavés for the Paris-Roubaix, then after the race put a thin coat of latex on
them (to *prevent* aging), dismount them and put them away for another year.
That tire had reputation for being bomb-proof at the time, but maybe too
heavy for other races. Perhaps this practical system evolved into the aging
practice mentioned in the documentary.
Blake
Mike Krueger wrote:
> Discovery Channel aired a TV documentary yesterday entitled, "The
> Science of Lance Armstrong". In one segment, Lance's longtime Belgian
> mechanic was profiled. He took the camera crew down into his "wine
> cellar"
Wine cellar? That would slow the whole process down and seems to do the
opposite of what they want. The key is to buy them new, put them in the
oven on clean, and then you can have properly aged 7-year tires in less than
2 minutes!
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training
Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
> datakoll@yahoo.com wrote:
>> what do we smell here?
>
> Garlic butter chicken with roasted garlic mashed potatoes and seasoned
> broccoli followed by some red wine.
Dinner menu @ Gitmo?
Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
> datakoll@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>what do we smell here?
>
>
> Garlic butter chicken with roasted garlic mashed potatoes and seasoned
> broccoli followed by some red wine. Would you like some?
>
Make that a good ale and I'll be right over.
Robin
Discovery Channel aired a TV documentary yesterday entitled, "The
Science of Lance Armstrong". In one segment, Lance's longtime Belgian
mechanic was profiled. He took the camera crew down into his "wine
cellar", where he stores scores of tubular tires for the pro team. He
had stacks of tires specifically designated for Paris-Roubaix, the
other spring classics, and, of course, the Tour De France, for which he
claimed the tubular tires had been specially *aging* for up to seven
years to improve their performance characteristics. This guy's been a
pro mechanic for 40 years, so he might know something about the
subject.
Comments?
Rubber fetish, goes down there in the evenings and rubs ...etc...
>> Its obvious this "GURU" pro mechanic with 40 years of experience hasn't
>> read the Bicycle FAQ:
>>
>> What advantage is there in aging tubulars?
>> None!
>
> Then again, Lance hasn't been known to have an exceptional number of flats
> (even assuming Lance has actually been using this guy's tires). Maybe
> there's something special in the vermin juices of this cellar.
Lance doesn't get flats... period. He's known for having rather exceptional
luck that way. But it's not because his tires are well-aged.
As to why Lance used aged tubulars, it has to do with absolute trust in your
mechanic. The relationship between racer and mechanic isn't typical, and
can't be defined in normal terms. The pro mechanic sells a particular brand
of snake oil, along with his mechanical expertise. He has to somehow
convince his client that nobody can better prepare a bike than he, that he's
the only person who can impart that magical something that can propel a bike
to victory.
I doubt any team mechanic ever put on his (and yes, as far as I know,
they're all male) resume that he's fluent in the FAQs regarding bicycle
maintenance & repair.
But much as I seek to undermine the mysticism surrounding the team mechanic,
I must also point out that there's a lot more to making a bike perform
exceptionally well than just knowing what screw to turn in which direction.
There are many competent mechanics who know *what* to do, but don't have a
great feel for how things interact... there's an inutitive feeling for what
it takes to make something work really well, and some people have it, some
don't. It's not something that can be taught. You can teach somebody how to
do something well, but many will just never develop a feel for wheel truing,
for example. They understand the mechanics, and can make a wheel reasonably
true, but the really great mechanic will spin the wheel a couple times, note
what's going on, and work a bit of magic on the spokes without even having
to look at reference points on the truing stand.
I imagine this is no different from work in any other field; there will be
those who have a natural talent for something, and others who do things by
the numbers (and get the job done, perfectly adequately, but not
exceptionally).
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> As to why Lance used aged tubulars, it has to do with absolute trust
> in your mechanic. The relationship between racer and mechanic isn't
> typical, and can't be defined in normal terms. The pro mechanic sells
> a particular brand of snake oil, along with his mechanical expertise.
> He has to somehow convince his client that nobody can better prepare
> a bike than he, that he's the only person who can impart that magical
> something that can propel a bike to victory.
>
> I doubt any team mechanic ever put on his (and yes, as far as I know,
> they're all male) resume that he's fluent in the FAQs regarding
> bicycle maintenance & repair.
>
> But much as I seek to undermine the mysticism surrounding the team
> mechanic, I must also point out that there's a lot more to making a
> bike perform exceptionally well than just knowing what screw to turn
> in which direction. There are many competent mechanics who know
> *what* to do, but don't have a great feel for how things interact...
> there's an inutitive feeling for what it takes to make something work
> really well, and some people have it, some don't. It's not something
> that can be taught. You can teach somebody how to do something well,
> but many will just never develop a feel for wheel truing, for
> example. They understand the mechanics, and can make a wheel
> reasonably true, but the really great mechanic will spin the wheel a
> couple times, note what's going on, and work a bit of magic on the
> spokes without even having to look at reference points on the truing
> stand.
> I imagine this is no different from work in any other field; there
> will be those who have a natural talent for something, and others who
> do things by the numbers (and get the job done, perfectly adequately,
> but not exceptionally).
That was beautiful, man.
(Especially compared to those endless spoke tension fatigue stress relief
hanging/standing minutia threads!)
Bill "like, just rides a bike" S.
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 05:05:12 GMT, "Bill Sornson"
<sorniunflatteringclothes@san.rr.com> wrote:
>Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> As to why Lance used aged tubulars, it has to do with absolute trust
>> in your mechanic. The relationship between racer and mechanic isn't
>> typical, and can't be defined in normal terms. The pro mechanic sells
>> a particular brand of snake oil, along with his mechanical expertise.
>> He has to somehow convince his client that nobody can better prepare
>> a bike than he, that he's the only person who can impart that magical
>> something that can propel a bike to victory.
>>
>> I doubt any team mechanic ever put on his (and yes, as far as I know,
>> they're all male) resume that he's fluent in the FAQs regarding
>> bicycle maintenance & repair.
>>
>> But much as I seek to undermine the mysticism surrounding the team
>> mechanic, I must also point out that there's a lot more to making a
>> bike perform exceptionally well than just knowing what screw to turn
>> in which direction. There are many competent mechanics who know
>> *what* to do, but don't have a great feel for how things interact...
>> there's an inutitive feeling for what it takes to make something work
>> really well, and some people have it, some don't. It's not something
>> that can be taught. You can teach somebody how to do something well,
>> but many will just never develop a feel for wheel truing, for
>> example. They understand the mechanics, and can make a wheel
>> reasonably true, but the really great mechanic will spin the wheel a
>> couple times, note what's going on, and work a bit of magic on the
>> spokes without even having to look at reference points on the truing
>> stand.
>> I imagine this is no different from work in any other field; there
>> will be those who have a natural talent for something, and others who
>> do things by the numbers (and get the job done, perfectly adequately,
>> but not exceptionally).
>
>That was beautiful, man.
>
>(Especially compared to those endless spoke tension fatigue stress relief
>hanging/standing minutia threads!)
>
>Bill "like, just rides a bike" S.
Dear Bill,
I think that it would have been better if the mechanic who
needed no truing stand or reference points had been blind
and named Von Herder, but I'm influenced by "The Adventure
of the Empty House":
http://www.citsoft.com/holmes/return/empty.house.txt
J. Watson, M.D.
carlfogel@comcast.net wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 05:05:12 GMT, "Bill Sornson"
> <sorniunflatteringclothes@san.rr.com> wrote {of Mike's missive}:
>> That was beautiful, man.
>>
>> (Especially compared to those endless spoke tension fatigue stress
>> relief hanging/standing minutia threads!)
>>
>> Bill "like, just rides a bike" S.
>
> Dear Bill,
>
> I think that it would have been better if the mechanic who
> needed no truing stand or reference points had been blind
> and named Von Herder, but I'm influenced by "The Adventure
> of the Empty House":
>
> http://www.citsoft.com/holmes/return/empty.house.txt
>
> J. Watson, M.D.
Dear Carl,
If Hammer didn't make a movie of it with Christopher Lee and Peter
Cushing -- along with a cadre of voluptuous vapiresses -- then what good was
it?
Impressionably Yours,
Drive-in Bill
http://www.fortunecity.com/lavendar/judidench/339/hammer.html
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