Gilberto Simoni.........Oh Dear!
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I am reminded by a motorcyle racing friend of a saying bikers have about ill advised pre race
comments which is , " when the flag drops the bull**** stops" Simoni should take heed and keep his
mouth under control. That Lance is the best racing cyclist of his generation is accepted by most
people but I have yet to hear of him shooting his mouth like Simoni has.
Patrick
Lance has done a little "talkin' " but you are right, nothing like Simoni. I think it is allright
for Simoni to do it, it is part of the whole spectacle.
Too bad Simoni did not look very good yesterday or has yet to look good today. Doesn't this just
show how the difference in competition between the Giro and le Tour?
"Patrick Kavanagh" <patrickkavanagh@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:berare$o51$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> I am reminded by a motorcyle racing friend of a saying bikers have about
ill
> advised pre race comments which is , " when the flag drops the bull**** stops" Simoni should take
> heed and keep his mouth under control. That Lance is the best racing cyclist of his generation is
> accepted by
most
> people but I have yet to hear of him shooting his mouth like Simoni has.
>
> Patrick
In article <bere90$1iic$1@f04n12.cac.psu.edu>,
"Raymo853" <raymo853@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Lance has done a little "talkin' " but you are right, nothing like Simoni. I think it is allright
> for Simoni to do it, it is part of the whole spectacle.
Traditionally, Lance saves his best trash talking for after he has worn yellow. This isn't exactly
"gracious in victory", but in retrospect it ends up looking much less stupid than jawing that you
will knock off the defending champion and then badly failing to do so.
> Too bad Simoni did not look very good yesterday or has yet to look good today. Doesn't this just
> show how the difference in competition between the Giro and le Tour?
I hear the mountains are bigger, but it also shows the difference in preparing for the Giro and le
Tour. Simoni: tried to win the Giro this year. Armstrong: tried to win le Tour.
--
Ryan Cousineau, rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
"Patrick Kavanagh" <patrickkavanagh@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:berare$o51$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> I am reminded by a motorcyle racing friend of a saying bikers have
about ill
> advised pre race comments which is , " when the flag drops the
bull****
> stops" Simoni should take heed and keep his mouth under control. That Lance is the best racing
> cyclist of his generation is accepted
by most
> people but I have yet to hear of him shooting his mouth like Simoni
has.
Simoni has plenty of juice to back his talk up. But he certainly hasn't shown well in this year's
Tour. Let's see how Lance could do in the Giro.
>Simoni has plenty of juice to back his talk up. But he certainly hasn't shown well in this year's
>Tour. Let's see how Lance could do in the Giro.
huh...anyone who wins the TdF can win the Giro or the Vuelta, the reverse is generally not true.
"Keith" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:qbo3hvse7dr7pb4s78go9rpus7r5p16imi@4ax.com...
> >
> >Simoni has plenty of juice to back his talk up. But he certainly hasn't shown well in this year's
> >Tour. Let's see how Lance could do in the Giro.
>
> huh...anyone who wins the TdF can win the Giro or the Vuelta, the reverse is generally not true.
No doubt, but that never stopped the taunting and innuendo.
In article <cvjQa.467$Mc.21915@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Tom Kunich"
<tkunich@earthlink.net> wrote:
> "Patrick Kavanagh" <patrickkavanagh@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
> news:berare$o51$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> > I am reminded by a motorcyle racing friend of a saying bikers have
> about ill
> > advised pre race comments which is , " when the flag drops the
> bull****
> > stops" Simoni should take heed and keep his mouth under control. That Lance is the best racing
> > cyclist of his generation is accepted
> by most
> > people but I have yet to hear of him shooting his mouth like Simoni
> has.
>
> Simoni has plenty of juice to back his talk up. But he certainly hasn't shown well in this year's
> Tour. Let's see how Lance could do in the Giro.
Bragging and bravado are all part of psyching out the other guy. It's not like simoni had no reason
to think he could do well in the mountains- he's won the giro twice. But I think lance was right,
that simoni underestimated the tour- the dolomites in may are not like the alps in mid july.
"Marlene Blanshay" <blanshay@total.net> wrote in message
news:blanshay-1307032241280001@192.168.1.3...
> In article <cvjQa.467$Mc.21915@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
"Tom
> Kunich" <tkunich@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > "Patrick Kavanagh" <patrickkavanagh@btopenworld.com> wrote in
message
> > news:berare$o51$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> > > I am reminded by a motorcyle racing friend of a saying bikers
have
> > about ill
> > > advised pre race comments which is , " when the flag drops the
> > bull****
> > > stops" Simoni should take heed and keep his mouth under
control.
> > > That Lance is the best racing cyclist of his generation is
accepted
> > by most
> > > people but I have yet to hear of him shooting his mouth like
Simoni
> > has.
> >
> > Simoni has plenty of juice to back his talk up. But he certainly hasn't shown well in this
> > year's Tour. Let's see how Lance could
do in
> > the Giro.
>
> Bragging and bravado are all part of psyching out the other guy.
It's not
> like simoni had no reason to think he could do well in the
mountains- he's
> won the giro twice. But I think lance was right, that simoni underestimated the tour- the
> dolomites in may are not like the alps
in mid
> july.
I agree completely. However, riding like Simoni did in the Giro a six weeks ago is no mean feat.
In article <RPpQa.953$Mc.68166@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Tom Kunich"
<tkunich@earthlink.net> wrote:
> "Marlene Blanshay" <blanshay@total.net> wrote in message
> news:blanshay-1307032241280001@192.168.1.3...
> > In article <cvjQa.467$Mc.21915@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> "Tom
> > Kunich" <tkunich@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > > "Patrick Kavanagh" <patrickkavanagh@btopenworld.com> wrote in
> message
> > > news:berare$o51$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> >
> > Bragging and bravado are all part of psyching out the other guy.
> It's not
> > like simoni had no reason to think he could do well in the
> mountains- he's
> > won the giro twice. But I think lance was right, that simoni underestimated the tour- the
> > dolomites in may are not like the alps
> in mid
> > july.
>
> I agree completely. However, riding like Simoni did in the Giro a six weeks ago is no mean feat.
Well, exactly. The Zoncolan is worse than anything I've ever seen, even the angliru! You dont
just get up that climb by having a big mouth. Howver, it's sad that he's probably going to bail
out of the tour.
>> I agree completely. However, riding like Simoni did in the Giro a six weeks ago is no mean feat.
>
>Well, exactly. The Zoncolan is worse than anything I've ever seen, even the angliru! You dont just
>get up that climb by having a big mouth. Howver, it's sad that he's probably going to bail out of
>the tour.
True but what makes the difference at that level is the level of the competition. Any of these
riders can climb up these terrible climbs.
The last time the Giro was really competitive with TdF conrenders was in 1994 when Berzin beat
Indurain or maybe in '95 when Rominger beat Berzin and Ugrumov.
Keith <nospam@nospam.com> writes:
> The last time the Giro was really competitive with TdF conrenders was in 1994 when Berzin beat
> Indurain or maybe in '95 when Rominger beat Berzin and Ugrumov.
This year, the Giro had better sprinters, between Cipollini, McEwen and Petacchi - at least before
McEwen abbandoned halfway through and Cipollini went down hard.
--
David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Personal: http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/ Free
Software: http://www.dedasys.com/freesoftware/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/
"David N. Welton" <davidw@dedasys.com> wrote in message news:87he5pl51k.fsf@dedasys.com...
> Keith <nospam@nospam.com> writes:
>
> > The last time the Giro was really competitive with TdF conrenders was in 1994 when Berzin beat
> > Indurain or maybe in '95 when Rominger beat Berzin and Ugrumov.
>
> This year, the Giro had better sprinters, between Cipollini, McEwen and Petacchi - at least before
> McEwen abbandoned halfway through and Cipollini went down hard.
You don't judge how competitive a 3 week tour is by the sprinters.
On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:30:24 GMT, "Kurgan Gringioni"
<kgringioni.remove.it.for.mail@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"David N. Welton" <davidw@dedasys.com> wrote in message news:87he5pl51k.fsf@dedasys.com...
>> Keith <nospam@nospam.com> writes:
>>
>> > The last time the Giro was really competitive with TdF conrenders was in 1994 when Berzin beat
>> > Indurain or maybe in '95 when Rominger beat Berzin and Ugrumov.
>>
>> This year, the Giro had better sprinters, between Cipollini, McEwen and Petacchi - at least
>> before McEwen abbandoned halfway through and Cipollini went down hard.
>
>
>
>You don't judge how competitive a 3 week tour is by the sprinters.
Yeah, how stupid :-(
"Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringioni.remove.it.for.mail@hotmail.com> writes:
> "David N. Welton" <davidw@dedasys.com> wrote in message news:87he5pl51k.fsf@dedasys.com...
> > Keith <nospam@nospam.com> writes:
> > > The last time the Giro was really competitive with TdF conrenders was in 1994 when Berzin beat
> > > Indurain or maybe in '95 when Rominger beat Berzin and Ugrumov.
> > This year, the Giro had better sprinters, between Cipollini, McEwen and Petacchi - at least
> > before McEwen abbandoned halfway through and Cipollini went down hard.
> You don't judge how competitive a 3 week tour is by the sprinters.
You judge the competitiveness of a 3 week tour's sprints by the sprinters, though, and the Giro had
better ones.
Also, you need to note the reverse of Simoni's condition - no one who is riding well at the Tour was
anywhere to be seen at the Giro (except for Petacchi, and, sort of, McEwen).
Looking at a few others, though, you can get some ideas. Sandy Casar did ok at the Giro - 13th, and
is getting shelled at the Tour. Rumsas managed a very good placing last year at the Tour (full of
who knows what), and could only manage 6th at the Giro (full of EPO).
Davide Cassani was discussing a few days ago how it's very difficult to be on form for both races,
what with where they are on the calendar.
--
David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Personal: http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/ Free
Software: http://www.dedasys.com/freesoftware/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/
"David N. Welton" <davidw@dedasys.com> wrote in message news:87fzl9ezjg.fsf@dedasys.com...
> "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringioni.remove.it.for.mail@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> > "David N. Welton" <davidw@dedasys.com> wrote in message news:87he5pl51k.fsf@dedasys.com...
> > > Keith <nospam@nospam.com> writes:
>
> > > > The last time the Giro was really competitive with TdF conrenders was in 1994 when Berzin
> > > > beat Indurain or maybe in '95 when Rominger beat Berzin and Ugrumov.
>
> > > This year, the Giro had better sprinters, between Cipollini, McEwen and Petacchi - at least
> > > before McEwen abbandoned halfway through and Cipollini went down hard.
>
> > You don't judge how competitive a 3 week tour is by the sprinters.
>
> You judge the competitiveness of a 3 week tour's sprints by the sprinters, though, and the Giro
> had better ones.
<snip>
Hey Dumbass -
The post you replied to spoke of Berzin, Indurain, Rominger, Ugrumov.
"Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringioni.remove.it.for.mail@hotmail.com> writes:
> > You judge the competitiveness of a 3 week tour's sprints by the sprinters, though, and the Giro
> > had better ones.
> The post you replied to spoke of Berzin, Indurain, Rominger, Ugrumov.
They aren't sprinters though, so I think you may be missing the point.
--
David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Personal: http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/ Free
Software: http://www.dedasys.com/freesoftware/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/
"David N. Welton" <davidw@dedasys.com> wrote in message news:87vfu5djdk.fsf@dedasys.com...
> "Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringioni.remove.it.for.mail@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> > > You judge the competitiveness of a 3 week tour's sprints by the sprinters, though, and the
> > > Giro had better ones.
>
> > The post you replied to spoke of Berzin, Indurain, Rominger, Ugrumov.
>
> They aren't sprinters though, so I think you may be missing the point.
No one evaluates how difficult a three week tour is by the sprinters (except for dumbasses such as
yourself).
The post you replied to was:
> True but what makes the difference at that level is the level of the competition. Any of these
> riders can climb up these terrible climbs.
>
> The last time the Giro was really competitive with TdF conrenders was in 1994 when Berzin beat
> Indurain or maybe in '95 when Rominger beat Berzin and Ugrumov.
>> They aren't sprinters though, so I think you may be missing the point.
>
>
>
>No one evaluates how difficult a three week tour is by the sprinters (except for dumbasses such as
>yourself).
>
>
>The post you replied to was:
>
>
>> True but what makes the difference at that level is the level of the competition. Any of these
>> riders can climb up these terrible climbs.
>>
>> The last time the Giro was really competitive with TdF conrenders was in 1994 when Berzin beat
>> Indurain or maybe in '95 when Rominger beat Berzin and Ugrumov.
Yes and just so he understands, I'll spell it out, these were the last years when a "real" Tour de
France contender showed interest in the Giro. While only Marrino Lejarreta used to run the three
National tours, the TdF winners used to alternate between the Giro and the Vuelta. Hinault won the
Giro in 1980 and 1982 and the Vuelta in 1978 and 1983. Indurain won the Giro in 1992 and 1993,
etc...I guess I forgot Pantani in 1998 and 1999, but he's Italian so it's a but different
Again, in recent years, while the Giro has seen relative competition like any race, it hasn't seen
much "absolute" competition with the best racers in the world. These guys meet on the TdF and that's
where the bluff ends.
Keith <nospam@nospam.com> writes:
> Yes and just so he understands, I'll spell it out, these were the last years when a "real" Tour de
> France contender showed interest in the Giro. While only Marrino Lejarreta used to run the three
> National tours, the TdF winners used to alternate between the Giro and the Vuelta. Hinault won the
> Giro in 1980 and 1982 and the Vuelta in 1978 and 1983. Indurain won the Giro in 1992 and 1993,
> etc...I guess I forgot Pantani in 1998 and 1999, but he's Italian so it's a but different
In addition to Pantani, you also forgot about Rumsas racing in the Giro this year, Ullrich recently,
and Olano several years back. They all got schooled.
> Again, in recent years, while the Giro has seen relative competition like any race, it hasn't seen
> much "absolute" competition with the best racers in the world. These guys meet on the TdF and
> that's where the bluff ends.
Sure, for the GC competition, admittedly more important, but by inviting some mediocre French teams
in place of Domina Vacanze, Jean Marie Leblanc assured that the Giro had the better sprinting
contests this year.
--
David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Personal: http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/ Free
Software: http://www.dedasys.com/freesoftware/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/
"David N. Welton" <davidw@dedasys.com> wrote in message news:87oezwevwe.fsf@dedasys.com...
> Keith <nospam@nospam.com> writes:
>
> > Yes and just so he understands, I'll spell it out, these were the last years when a "real" Tour
> > de France contender showed interest in the Giro. While only Marrino Lejarreta used to run the
> > three National tours, the TdF winners used to alternate between the Giro and the Vuelta. Hinault
> > won the Giro in 1980 and 1982 and the Vuelta in 1978 and 1983. Indurain won the Giro in 1992 and
> > 1993, etc...I guess I forgot Pantani in 1998 and 1999, but he's Italian so it's a but different
>
> In addition to Pantani, you also forgot about Rumsas racing in the Giro this year, Ullrich
> recently, and Olano several years back. They all got schooled.
Let me get this straight:
You're taking the position that the Giro is more difficult?
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