Power Training

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I have been doing a lot of velodrome motorpace training and have good leg speed and cardio, however I lack leg strength.

I have moved up to a ratio 90 on my track bike and hope that I will build some strength that way, currently I don't have access to a gym though I have some weights at home and in the past I have done some large weights on weight machines.

Can people suggest good training methods to build strength?

thanks

Brian

90, meaning 90 inch gear? That's not all that big for the track. Sprints with 100 inches would be manly (and hard).

'Large weights on weight machines' is a very subjective statement! And you can never be sure whether a big number actually equals a lot of resistance. Leg press machines are notorious for allowing/requiring you to hoist a lot of plates to encounter some real work.

Squat. I say there's nothing better for powering up the legs, hips, glutes. If you're allergic to using a barbell, as many people are, then try them using a hip belt (go to Ironmind.com, I think, to check out their belt). Or do them with the weight strapped around your waist the way you would for weighted chins and dips. Whatever you choose, be sure to squat with your upper body as upright/vertical as possible. Go deep enough -- upper leg parallel to the floor. That's a lot deeper than most people go, and surely deeper than you think you will be when you start doing them. Go deeper. Target 15 or 20 all-you-can-stand, reps. By rep 12, you should be thinking there's no way you'll get to 20. More reps won't equal much more strength, so add weight rather than reps as time goes by and your power increases.

You could try one-leg bodyweight squats, but I've never been a fan.

Brizza,

Do Weights if u can but if not these should help.

Do standing starts with the 90inch gear and accelerate up to top speed and hold it for about 300-500metres. If u find it too easy keep increasing the gearing by about 2inches until u cant spin out the gear. Mix it up between seated starts and out of saddle starts.

Also if u have a roadbike find a gradual inclining hill and put it in the largest gear (or the largest gear you can manage without grinding) and do a seated sprint.

If u do about 5 of either the above u should feel it the next day and get some nice strong legs.

Make sure you have a day rest between these workouts to allow your legs to recover. On your off days u can do easy recovery rides.

Enjoy:D

Jonny

For the roadies that don't go by ratios, it is calculated

Teeth on Front Ring/teeth on rear cog * Wheel diameter in inches.
The velodrome at Newcastle is an old outdoor track with high banks.
87 is the consensus ratio for A Grade on our velodrome. I was racing 81 last season.

Last year when I was doing weights (300-400kg on 45' Leg Press) it didn't translate into road speed. It was outlined to me the difference between strength and power, strength is the abilty to work against resistance while power is the explosive property to accelerate. I though I should reiterate the difference for those that are training to improve their sprint.

Brizza,

Thats some small gearing. On the Dunc Gray on friday nights C graders are using 92 inch gearing. Im using 88inch at the moment because im trying to increase my leg speed.
U should come down one night for a hit out.

When u were doing 400kgs was that explosive????Do explosive if u want the sprint power.
If u want strength use a larger gearing without the motorpacing. Are you talking about endurance strength here????? If you are, its about increasing power(watts)@VO2max. Thats best to train on the bike doing interval training. I think i read some stuff on it on other posts by Ricstern.

Jonny

Originally posted by Jonny
Brizza,

Thats some small gearing. On the Dunc Gray on friday nights C graders are using 92 inch gearing. Im using 88inch at the moment because im trying to increase my leg speed.
U should come down one night for a hit out.


Have to agree with that statement. Indoor wooden tracks do let you go up a gear, but racing D grade in Victorian opens you wouldn't survive outdoors on anything smaller than a 90. I raced a 92.6 in B grade club races all season.

I remember spinning out in a 96 at a motorpace at Horsham one year. (Anyone who has done the motorpace at Horsham would understand - it's rare for more than 5 people to get to the sprint!).

Our Velodrome is very rough and bumpy concrete, I've been told that DG is fast. The motorpace format is with another rider, 3 laps behind the bike, 2 slow laps riding around the top, 3 on, 2 off for 30 mins.
Leg press was for strength not power at the time. I havn't been to the gym in 4 months.
If I can get a lift down on Fri nights I'll be there for sure, for the moment I don't have a car.

Originally posted by Brizza
The motorpace format is with another rider, 3 laps behind the bike, 2 slow laps riding around the top, 3 on, 2 off for 30 mins.


Brizza,

That motorpace method will only help with developing leg speed and other things like lactate thresholds and is not commonly used for increasing power esp with the smaller gearing. This workout is common for track sprinters to fly of the back at 70kmh+ and hold it as long as possible.Track endurance would use it to hold in high HR for long periods to increase LTs. You have taken out the resistance ie wind, which is the main thing that slows you down.
If you want to continue with the motorpacing use a larger gearing and do intervals of 5min on 5min off but once again it will not develop strength as well as doing it against wind resistance all by yourself..

Jonny

My leg speed has gone thru the roof, using the higher gearing it hurts alot more.
Our velodrome is like riding a 'dead' road, I might do some training on my own in addition to the interval motorpace on Wed nights.

Originally posted by Brizza
I have been doing a lot of velodrome motorpace training and have good leg speed and cardio, however I lack leg strength.

I have moved up to a ratio 90 on my track bike and hope that I will build some strength that way, currently I don't have access to a gym though I have some weights at home and in the past I have done some large weights on weight machines.

Can people suggest good training methods to build strength?

thanks

Brian

Brian,

Perhaps you could let us know what your goals are, and/or what events you participate in. This will help us to give you some training suggestions, and also determine whether leg strength is am important facet of your training (and even whether it's a limiting factor).

Cheers
Ric

I did some body building before I got serious with cycling, so the weights I did where more for strength.

Before moving to road I had a XC history, I continue to spin quickly and enjoy interval style races.

When I train, if I let my mind wonder, I will spin/idle around 110rpm. I ride a 5 year old 7sp for road, for the moment it's all I can afford but it makes for good training

Track racing is primarily cross training. XC racing is just for fun but the interval style of the local tracks suit me well. I race circuit (Kooragang) with a small club every Sat, and XC every second Sun.

I do Velodrome motorpace every Wed on the 'dead' surface Newcastle Velodrome, and exceded everyone's expectations tonight by staying with the local A grader. I am happy to do individual training at the velodrome.

My problem, I spin too much, and tend to be in a really small gear for the sprint, the good side is that I accelerate really quickly, but I don't have the top end speed for large races and tend to be swamped.

I am very happy with my leg speed and cardio, I would like to improve my power for sprints, breakaways and time trials. I have been having trouble building muscle recently, though warm showers and eating more 'greens' has helped.

Originally posted by Brizza
I did some body building before I got serious with cycling, so the weights I did where more for strength.

Before moving to road I had a XC history, I continue to spin quickly and enjoy interval style races.

When I train, if I let my mind wonder, I will spin/idle around 110rpm. I ride a 5 year old 7sp for road, for the moment it's all I can afford but it makes for good training

Track racing is primarily cross training. XC racing is just for fun but the interval style of the local tracks suit me well. I race circuit (Kooragang) with a small club every Sat, and XC every second Sun.

I do Velodrome motorpace every Wed on the 'dead' surface Newcastle Velodrome, and exceded everyone's expectations tonight by staying with the local A grader. I am happy to do individual training at the velodrome.

My problem, I spin too much, and tend to be in a really small gear for the sprint, the good side is that I accelerate really quickly, but I don't have the top end speed for large races and tend to be swamped.

I am very happy with my leg speed and cardio, I would like to improve my power for sprints, breakaways and time trials. I have been having trouble building muscle recently, though warm showers and eating more 'greens' has helped.

It seems then that your goals events are endurance based, and thus strength is not a limiting factor (except for some people with certain conditions).

Elite (endurance) cyclists are no stronger than age and gender matched, healthy controls. Indeed, with aerobic training, there's likely to be a decrease in strength due to increases in aerobic machinery and decreases in contractile proteins within the muscle.

Within the 'normal' range of pedalling cadences that most cyclists use (e.g., 70 - 110 revs/min) it matters little what cadence you choose, in terms of producing a specific power output. Sel optimisation of cadence is usually very close to the best cadence you can choose.

For TTing, you need to increase the power that you can generate for a long period of time (e.g., ~1-hr). This power correlates well with power at lactate threshold (LT), but is usually ~ 20% higher than LT for most (even vaguely) trained cyclists. To increase TT power you need to train at just below to ~ 100 % of TT power for fairly large chunks of time (e.g., 15 - 30 mins). You'd need to complete 20 - 60 mins of these blocks, once to twice per week.

Usually, the initial effort of breaking away isn't much of a problem for most cyclists -- it's the sustaining of the effort once you have a gap. This relates to the power you can produce at LT and TT power, and also how hard you attack, i.e., if you go 'all-out' to attack anyone would be completely fatigued within ~60-secs. Thus, to attack you need to moderate your effort and then settle into a TT rhythm.

By increasing power at LT and TT power, the actual attack effort will fatigue you less.

The sprinting, will need to be trained by doing specific sprint sessions. Two of the most useful i find are group sprints (which help with tactics and positions) and solo efforts of ~ 10-secs.

Ric

It's no surprise that you are having trouble adding muscle. You'd have to be a genetic freak to build while training as hard as you do and burning so many calories. Growing muscle is all about rest and recovery (assuming suitable lifting).

300-400kg in a 45 degree leg press seems and sounds like a lot, but might not be. Were you getting a FULL range of motion, without allowing your low back to come off the backrest? I rarely see people doing them correctly. Re: whether you were doing them explosively or not doesn't much matter. When you are near your limit, you can't move the weight quickly anyway, and if you tried to lift it slowly, you wouldn't move it at all! In other words, there's no difference between explosive and non-explosive training unless you are tossing around sub-limit weights.

Note: I think sled leg presses are generally garbage for your knees and back. Squats are much better. They are also true tests of strength/power. See how much you can squat to parallel. Likely a small fraction of your leg press.

Circuit races go for around 1 hour, and I don't have any major problems with my endurance for that period.
I will work on my group sprints with my local club, have learnt lots and can see that I have alot more to learn. My experiences with invitational races is that I get swamped every race, with smaller races we watch eachother and my kick gives me an advantage.

I couldn't squat nearly what I could press. I don't train nearly as much as tha other local racers. I would utilise the full movement of the muscule to acheive maximum gain. I bench press 80-100kg but other than crash protection, I don't see many benefits from uper body building. Those efforts have helped me to understand the recovery time of my muscles, and am sure to recover after each weekend.

My typical week looks like

Monday- Rest
Tues- Rest
Wed- Motorpace
Thurs- Rest
Fri- Rest
Sat- Circuit racing
Sun- XC racing

I'm happy to add to Tues and Thurs if I can recover for and after racing.

Originally posted by Brizza
Circuit races go for around 1 hour, and I don't have any major problems with my endurance for that period.
I will work on my group sprints with my local club, have learnt lots and can see that I have alot more to learn. My experiences with invitational races is that I get swamped every race, with smaller races we watch eachother and my kick gives me an advantage.

I couldn't squat nearly what I could press. I don't train nearly as much as tha other local racers. I would utilise the full movement of the muscule to acheive maximum gain. I bench press 80-100kg but other than crash protection, I don't see many benefits from uper body building. Those efforts have helped me to understand the recovery time of my muscles, and am sure to recover after each weekend.

My typical week looks like

Monday- Rest
Tues- Rest
Wed- Motorpace
Thurs- Rest
Fri- Rest
Sat- Circuit racing
Sun- XC racing

I'm happy to add to Tues and Thurs if I can recover for and after racing.

For the racing that you do (i.e., non-track sprint, e.g., 200-m, 1-km TT), there's no need to do any weight training -- it's likely to be detrimental to your performance.

It also *looks* like you have plenty of other time to train (depending on your other commitments). Also, it might be a good idea to drop racing every weekend, or to go into some races fatigued through training, i.e., you should prioritise some races over others by setting some goals.

Ric

Sunday XC is only for fun, if my legs are sore I won't go.
Following a heavy weekend of racing, it can take me until Wed for my muscles to recover fully.
Up to current, I have used my racing as training. I rode home from XC on Sunday in the highest possible gears, while I looked like a phyco, it felt great :D
Track racing will being in October and will be on Wed nights.

Following tonight's hard ride I can foresee pain in my legs, should I go for a recovery ride or train? I would normally do a light recovery ride and enjoy the benefits of growth when I next race.

There are definitely benefits to upper body training, particularly the core muscles, but perhap no benefit from upper body mass other than aesthetics.

Anyone rolling their eyes over the aesthetics comment needs to think about whether they choose particular colors/styling of their jersey, shorts, frame, components, etc. Not much difference. There's nothin' wrong with not wanting to have 12" pipes hanging from your sleeves. ;-)

One benefit of weight training is that as the muscles grow the bones will grow in density and strength, thus you are less likely to be breaking collarbones if you have worked on your shoulders.

I have 14" pipes :p , apart from sprinting I don't find they offer much for my cycling.

I posted on this thread my experience with core training.
core training (http://www.cyclingforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=30772&highlight=core)

Originally posted by Brizza
One benefit of weight training is that as the muscles grow the bones will grow in density and strength, thus you are less likely to be breaking collarbones if you have worked on your shoulders.

I have 14" pipes :p , apart from sprinting I don't find they offer much for my cycling.

I posted on this thread my experience with core training.
core training (http://www.cyclingforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=30772&highlight=core)

I'm pretty sure the literature is quite equivocal on, whether strength training will help offset decreases in bone mineral density.

There's little evidence that shows that weight/strength training has any effect on trained endurance athletes. see: http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=strengthstern

It's highly doubtful, that having strong/muscular arms will assist in sprinting during endurance events, especially, as peak power (sprinting) is significantly reduced by even very moderate, short efforts (i.e., 1-hr @ 50% MAP).

Of course aesthetics, is a different kettle of fish!

Ric

Originally posted by brizza
Following tonight's hard ride I can foresee pain in my legs, should I go for a recovery ride or train? I would normally do a light recovery ride and enjoy the benefits of growth when I next race.


I am still stiff 42 hours following training, how can I improve my recovery time? I will race regardless tomorrow, but doing so usually results in me being more sore the following day.

This Sat is age championships, 66km race instead of 33km.