technical query - wheel
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A query from Vernon. Can anyone here advise???
"Hi technical team,
As a reward to 14 year old son of breaking the 30 minute time for a 10 in his first year of racing I
bought him a pair of Campag Sciroccos via mail order 4 weeks ago. He thinks they are cooool!.
However after a he lost the rear wheel on a tight left hand junction - he stayed upright - I checked
his bike over and found that there was a lot of sideways movement at the rim on the rear wheel. I
checked out the bearings but I understand that the bearings are non adjustable. I chatted to a
couple of guys in the club with differing views of whether this movement is normal, considering that
it appears half the spokes are missing when compared to a normal spoked wheel. The deflection at the
rim is probably 4-5 mm. Is this Normal? And if it is does this have any effect the bike's stability?
Your counsel please."
Cheers, helen s
~~~~~~~~~~
This is sent from a redundant email Mail sent to it is dumped My correct one can be gleaned from
h$**$*$el$**e$n$**$d$**$o$*$t**$$s$**$im$mo$ns*@a$**o$l.c$$*o$*m*$ by getting rid of the
overdependence on money and fame
~~~~~~~~~~
wafflyDIRTYcatLITTERhcsBOX wrote:
Need to ask Vernon a question, or perhaps you know Helen......
> As a reward to 14 year old son of breaking the 30 minute time for a 10 in his first year of racing
> I bought him a pair of Campag Sciroccos via mail order 4 weeks ago. He thinks they are cooool!.
> However after a he lost the rear wheel on a tight left hand junction
> - he stayed upright - I checked his bike over and found that there was a lot of sideways movement
> at the rim on the rear wheel. I checked out the bearings but I understand that the bearings are
> non adjustable.
Does this movement FEEL like loose bearings (ie. free play - clunks back and forth with very little
finger pressure just like loose cones produce with conventional bearings) or is it just flex at the
rim when pushed quite hard? The latter might be normal, depending on how hard you're pushing it. The
former is not right with ANY wheels if play is anywhere near 4mm.
I'll look-up the wheels wheels on the Campag site to see what kind of bearings they have. Might be
back with another reply later.........
~PB
Pete Biggs wrote:
> wafflyDIRTYcatLITTERhcsBOX wrote:
>
> Need to ask Vernon a question, or perhaps you know Helen......
>
>> As a reward to 14 year old son of breaking the 30 minute time for a 10 in his first year of
>> racing I bought him a pair of Campag Sciroccos via mail order 4 weeks ago. He thinks they are
>> cooool!. However after a he lost the rear wheel on a tight left hand junction
>> - he stayed upright - I checked his bike over and found that there was a lot of sideways movement
>> at the rim on the rear wheel. I checked out the bearings but I understand that the bearings are
>> non adjustable.
>
> Does this movement FEEL like loose bearings (ie. free play - clunks back and forth with very
> little finger pressure just like loose cones produce with conventional bearings) or is it just
> flex at the rim when pushed quite hard? The latter might be normal, depending on how hard you're
> pushing it. The former is not right with ANY wheels if play is anywhere near 4mm.
>
Or is the wheel rigid but out of true?
--
Andy Morris
AndyAtJinkasDotFreeserve.Co.UK
Love this: Put an end to Outlook Express's messy quotes
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
wafflyDIRTYcatLITTERhcsBOX <wafflycathcs@aol.comcomcom> wrote:
: found that there was a lot of sideways movement at the rim on the rear wheel. I checked out the
: bearings but I understand that the bearings are non adjustable.
This is wrong. All Campag wheels let you adjust the side-to-side play. On the modern wheels it's a
very different system to the old cup-and-cone type but (IMO) much nicer to adjust.
Take it to a competent bike shop and get it fixed.
Arthur
>Does this movement FEEL like loose bearings (ie. free play - clunks back and forth with very little
>finger pressure just like loose cones produce with conventional bearings) or is it just flex at the
>rim when pushed quite hard?
No - not loose bearings but Vernon says it's more of a deflection at the rim. Whether it's when it's
pushed quite hard - If Vernon putrs his thumbs on the rim near the break bridge and pushes, the rim
will deflect this 4mm or so. Now, he says he doesn't have to push hard for this to happen.
He's had the wheel out and put it on the truing jig, thinggie, and the wheel doesn't seem to be out
of true as such - nor does it appear to be suffering dishing (?).
Cheers, helen s
~~~~~~~~~~
This is sent from a redundant email Mail sent to it is dumped My correct one can be gleaned from
h$**$*$el$**e$n$**$d$**$o$*$t**$$s$**$im$mo$ns*@a$**o$l.c$$*o$*m*$ by getting rid of the
overdependence on money and fame
~~~~~~~~~~
Arthur Clune wrote:
> This is wrong. All Campag wheels let you adjust the side-to-side play. On the modern wheels it's a
> very different system to the old cup-and-cone type but (IMO) much nicer to adjust.
I think you must be forgetting about Campag's cartridge bearing hubs - nothing to adjust on those.
The wheel in question has these (according to Vernon & Campag's manuals). Anyway, it seems like the
problem is not the bearings.
~PB
wafflyDIRTYcatLITTERhcsBOX wrote:
> No - not loose bearings but Vernon says it's more of a deflection at the rim. Whether it's when
> it's pushed quite hard - If Vernon putrs his thumbs on the rim near the break bridge and pushes,
> the rim will deflect this 4mm or so. Now, he says he doesn't have to push hard for this to happen.
I suppose it depends what we mean by "hard". A certain amount of flex is normal with all wheels--and
this can seem alarming if never really tested and noticed before--but perhaps spoke tension is low
(all round) if it's really bad. Might be a good idea to get someone who's familiar with these wheels
to 'ave a feel, and ask on rec.bicycles.tech. I'm afraid I can't help any further as I don't know
this model.
~PB
wafflyDIRTYcatLITTERhcsBOX wrote:
> Whether it's when it's pushed quite hard - If Vernon putrs his thumbs on the rim near the break
> bridge and pushes, the rim will deflect this 4mm or so. Now, he says he doesn't have to push hard
> for this to happen.
....Thinking more about what *I* mean by hard, I only meant hard compared to testing bearings. Not a
great deal of pressure is required to deflect an average conventional race wheel to 4 or 5mm with a
finger and thumb.
~PB
Pete Biggs wrote:
> wafflyDIRTYcatLITTERhcsBOX wrote:
>
>>No - not loose bearings but Vernon says it's more of a deflection at the rim. Whether it's when
>>it's pushed quite hard - If Vernon putrs his thumbs on the rim near the break bridge and pushes,
>>the rim will deflect this 4mm or so. Now, he says he doesn't have to push hard for this to happen.
>
>
> I suppose it depends what we mean by "hard". A certain amount of flex is normal with all
> wheels--and this can seem alarming if never really tested and noticed before--but perhaps spoke
> tension is low (all round) if it's really bad. Might be a good idea to get someone who's familiar
> with these wheels to 'ave a feel, and ask on rec.bicycles.tech. I'm afraid I can't help any
> further as I don't know this model.
>
> ~PB
>
>
I don't think it is necessarily anything to worry about, if the bearings are set correctly, Andrews
Bianchi wheels, with only a few spokes, can move similarly. Don't expect these wheels to be as stiff
as a paving slab, though they shouldn't be as flexible as a pair of bib shorts.
if thw wheels don't rub on the brake blocks when sprinting hard, then they are probably ok.
--
Pete
interchange 12 for 21 to reply
"Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message
news:<bf0sjd$9qa0e$1@ID-144931.news.uni-berlin.de>...
>
> I think you must be forgetting about Campag's cartridge bearing hubs - nothing to adjust on those.
> The wheel in question has these (according to Vernon & Campag's manuals). Anyway, it seems like
> the problem is not the bearings.
>
Based on my experiences of Sachs New Success and Hope cartridge hub bearings, they're pretty much
spot-on "from the box", so I'd agree.
David E. Belcher
Pete Biggs <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote:
: I think you must be forgetting about Campag's cartridge bearing hubs - nothing to adjust on those.
: The wheel in question has these (according to Vernon & Campag's manuals). Anyway, it seems like
: the problem is not the bearings.
Not forgetting. I didn't know Campag did any cartridge bearing hubs! Which wheels have these then?
And of course, even cartridge bearing hubs can be adjusted with the right tools (though you'd
probably have to spend them to the Campag specialist/distributor, which used to be Mercian)
Arthur
Arthur Clune wrote:
> Not forgetting. I didn't know Campag did any cartridge bearing hubs! Which wheels have these then?
eg. www.campagnolo.com/pdf/spares98-C.pdf - page 30 www.campagnolo.com/pdf/spares03_C.pdf - page 16
Also, Avanti, Xenon, Mirage and now Veloce have cartridge bearings in the rear hubs. Smooth and
reliable. They are meant to be maintenance-free but more grease can be injected by removing seals.
> And of course, even cartridge bearing hubs can be adjusted with the right tools (though you'd
> probably have to spend them to the Campag specialist/distributor, which used to be Mercian)
I think it is indeed a specialist job with these. I haven't got a clue how to do it myself with my
Mirage (if anything is adjustable?). There really doesn't seem much to them - and they are
apparently require different tools to more usual cartridge hubs.
~PB
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