View Full Version : TDF TT strategy
when I read everybody's post today I cannot believe that all you want to do is gloat about Lance
loosing out to Jan. But the point is that what you did today reflects what you will do tomorrow.
there was a mention on OLN coverage of the race, and it was Phil that mentioned Lance's tempo, "He
has perfect tempo". To get that extra 1:36 Jan must have had the best TT of his life and he
certainly deserves credit. But tomorrow I question if he will have paid the price for it when it
comes to the mountains. I expect that Roberto will carry Lance up to the last 5-6 km and then he
will sprint out to gain 2 minutes back over Jan tomorrow.
On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:39:10 +0000, NEPTUNIUM wrote:
> when I read everybody's post today I cannot believe that all you want to do is gloat about Lance
> loosing out to Jan. But the point is that what you did today reflects what you will do tomorrow.
> there was a mention on OLN coverage of the race, and it was Phil that mentioned Lance's tempo, "He
> has perfect tempo". To get that extra 1:36 Jan must have had the best TT of his life and he
> certainly deserves credit. But tomorrow I question if he will have paid the price for it when it
> comes to the mountains. I expect that Roberto will carry Lance up to the last 5-6 km and then he
> will sprint out to gain 2 minutes back over Jan tomorrow.
Tomorrow the Loud Mouth will find out all about the Alamo
I agree completely. Lance is too good a tactician, and I suspect he knew Ullrich was going to go all
out, especailly since it was reported (in Cycle Sport among other places) that Ullrich was trying to
emulate Lance's high cadence pedaling style, which is very suitable for a TT. I believe Lance wanted
to make sure he kept it close, and once he saw Ullrich's time (via radio) he knew what he had to do
to stay with it and keep the yellow and not kill himself, and save it for the mountains and the
final TT. Now Lance has a team that Ullrich does not to blow him apart in the mountains after he
went all out today. I have a feeling tomorrow will be an outrageous race to watch. Heras, Pena,
Beltran and Rubiera all working to burn up Ullrich while Lance watches and waits for his moment...
--
Dave themailbox@bellsouth.net "NEPTUNIUM" <neptunium@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030718163910.02417.00000169@mb-m21.aol.com...
> when I read everybody's post today I cannot believe that all you want to
do is
> gloat about Lance loosing out to Jan. But the point is that what you did
today
> reflects what you will do tomorrow. there was a mention on OLN coverage of
the
> race, and it was Phil that mentioned Lance's tempo, "He has perfect
tempo".
> To get that extra 1:36 Jan must have had the best TT of his life and he certainly deserves credit.
> But tomorrow I question if he will have paid
the
> price for it when it comes to the mountains. I expect that Roberto will
carry
> Lance up to the last 5-6 km and then he will sprint out to gain 2 minutes
back
> over Jan tomorrow.
Traditionally, GC contenders don't hold back during time trials. It's not worth it.
I just think Ullrich handled the heat well. Maybe Armstrong didn't. Armstrong still rode a solid
time trial. Take Ullrich out of the standings, and the results look at least as good as last
year's ITTs:
http://www-tcad.stanford.edu/~djconnel/cycling/ITT1.pdf (revised)
Dan
Dave wrote:
> I agree completely. Lance is too good a tactician, and I suspect he knew Ullrich was going to go
> all out, especailly since it was reported (in Cycle Sport among other places) that Ullrich was
> trying to emulate Lance's high cadence pedaling style, which is very suitable for a TT. I believe
> Lance wanted to make sure he kept it close, and once he saw Ullrich's time (via radio) he knew
> what he had to do to stay with it and keep the yellow and not kill himself, and save it for the
> mountains and the final TT. Now Lance has a team that Ullrich does not to blow him apart in the
> mountains after he went all out today. I have a feeling tomorrow will be an outrageous race to
> watch. Heras, Pena, Beltran and Rubiera all working to burn up Ullrich while Lance watches and
> waits for his moment...
In article <SrZRa.3611$fl6.3222@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com>, Daniel Connelly
<djconnel@ieee.org> wrote:
> Traditionally, GC contenders don't hold back during time trials. It's not worth it.
Agree completely. Trying to get back the 1:35 Lance lost can be much harder on a climb when Ullrich
knows he only has to stay on Lance's wheel (or claw his way back to it). These guys won't have any
trouble recovering from the TT before tomorrow.
-WG
On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 16:55:49 -0400, "Dave" <themailbox@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>I agree completely. Lance is too good a tactician, and I suspect he knew Ullrich was going to go
>all out, especailly since it was reported (in Cycle Sport among other places) that Ullrich was
>trying to emulate Lance's high cadence pedaling style, which is very suitable for a TT.
He hasn't done it. LA wasn't able to get into his high cadence, though.
>went all out today. I have a feeling tomorrow will be an outrageous race to watch. Heras, Pena,
>Beltran and Rubiera all working to burn up Ullrich while Lance watches and waits for his moment...
... and Ullrich will only watch Lance and let Heras, Pena et al. do whatever they want. He would
take at least 5 minutes out of them in the next ITT anyway, so why hother.
In article <20030718163910.02417.00000169@mb-m21.aol.com>, neptunium@aol.com says...
> when I read everybody's post today I cannot believe that all you want to do is gloat about Lance
> loosing out to Jan. But the point is that what you did today reflects what you will do tomorrow.
> there was a mention on OLN coverage of the race, and it was Phil that mentioned Lance's tempo, "He
> has perfect tempo".
I wouldn't put any stock in that.
> To get that extra 1:36 Jan must have had the best TT of his life and he certainly deserves credit.
> But tomorrow I question if he will have paid the price for it when it comes to the mountains. I
> expect that Roberto will carry Lance up to the last 5-6 km and then he will sprint out to gain 2
> minutes back over Jan tomorrow.
>
That is certainly possible, and we'll know within 14 hours.
Rick
On 18 Jul 2003 20:39:10 GMT, neptunium@aol.com (NEPTUNIUM) wrote:
>when I read everybody's post today I cannot believe that all you want to do is gloat about Lance
>loosing out to Jan. But the point is that what you did today reflects what you will do tomorrow.
>there was a mention on OLN coverage of the race, and it was Phil that mentioned Lance's tempo, "He
>has perfect tempo". To get that extra 1:36 Jan must have had the best TT of his life and he
>certainly deserves credit. But tomorrow I question if he will have paid the price for it when it
>comes to the mountains. I expect that Roberto will carry Lance up to the last 5-6 km and then he
>will sprint out to gain 2 minutes back over Jan tomorrow.
That's you right? Doesn't sound at all like Phil to make such a "predictive" comment. If anything
Heras hasn't been up to much good this year unlike last year. He gets dropped much too early to be
much of a factor. Good thing Beloki isn't here anymore to take over when Heras drops out.
On top of that tomorrow's single Cat1 climb is 20+km from the top, so what you write doesn't make a
lot of sense...
On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 22:43:56 GMT, Java Man (Espressopithecus) <rickkCUT@shaw.ca> wrote:
>In article <20030718163910.02417.00000169@mb-m21.aol.com>, neptunium@aol.com says...
>> when I read everybody's post today I cannot believe that all you want to do is gloat about Lance
>> loosing out to Jan. But the point is that what you did today reflects what you will do tomorrow.
>> there was a mention on OLN coverage of the race, and it was Phil that mentioned Lance's tempo,
>> "He has perfect tempo".
>
>I wouldn't put any stock in that.
>
>> To get that extra 1:36 Jan must have had the best TT of his life and he certainly deserves
>> credit. But tomorrow I question if he will have paid the price for it when it comes to the
>> mountains. I expect that Roberto will carry Lance up to the last 5-6 km and then he will sprint
>> out to gain 2 minutes back over Jan tomorrow.
>>
>That is certainly possible, and we'll know within 14 hours.
Make that 36, tomorrow's stage is NOT a mountain top finish. You guys should look at the stage
profile...
>
>Rick
On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 21:24:51 GMT, warren <warren@usvh.com> wrote:
>Trying to get back the 1:35 Lance lost can be much harder on a climb when Ullrich knows he only has
>to stay on Lance's wheel (or claw his way back to it).
Assuming for the sake of argument that the next TT plays out exactly the same as today's, Lance
needs to put over 1'02" on Ullrich in the mountains before then to keep the yellow from Ullrich, and
Vinokourov needs 2'23" over Ullrich and 1'21" over Armstrong. So Ullrich just needs to limit his
loses to Armstrong and Vino; Armstrong needs to attack Ullrich and limit his loses to Vino; and Vino
needs to attack the other two.
--
EWC
"Keith" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
<snip> Make that 36, tomorrow's stage is NOT a mountain top finish. You guys
> should look at the stage profile...
> >
> >Rick
Huh? One mountain up, then down and up a second one to finish at the top? What do you call that?
EWC wrote:
>
> On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 21:24:51 GMT, warren <warren@usvh.com> wrote:
> >Trying to get back the 1:35 Lance lost can be much harder on a climb when Ullrich knows he only
> >has to stay on Lance's wheel (or claw his way back to it).
>
> Assuming for the sake of argument that the next TT plays out exactly the same as today's, Lance
> needs to put over 1'02" on Ullrich in the mountains before then to keep the yellow from Ullrich,
> and Vinokourov needs 2'23" over Ullrich and 1'21" over Armstrong. So Ullrich just needs to limit
> his loses to Armstrong and Vino; Armstrong needs to attack Ullrich and limit his loses to Vino;
> and Vino needs to attack the other two.
>
> --
> EWC
In other words...
We are going to see a bloodbath the next three days in the Pyrenees!
Jow
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1.5 196.0 D.820 Bonascre
==================
.0 197.5 AX 3 DOMAINES Finish 1e Sprint B
==================
it looks like they will be in a tremendous climb. there is a sprint coming at the finish, a strategy
could play out like this. lance knowing that the sprint is near will lead off and away from the
leaders possibly by himself. 5 km is roughly 3 miles. by taking off at this point that would mean
1.5 miles of accelerated climb. this burns out any competition with aching legs. the heat, the
strain, weakens anybody following. 1.5 miles of sprint left, while others are still climbing lance
is speeding away to the finish.
On 19 Jul 2003 06:25:20 GMT, neptunium@aol.com (NEPTUNIUM) wrote:
>1.5 196.0 D.820 Bonascre
>==================
>.0 197.5 AX 3 DOMAINES Finish 1e Sprint B
>==================
>it looks like they will be in a tremendous climb. there is a sprint coming at the finish, a
>strategy could play out like this.
This is a BONUS sprint, none of the GC contenders pay attention to these ?!
>lance knowing that the sprint is near will lead off and away from the leaders possibly by
>himself. 5 km is roughly 3 miles. by taking off at this point that would mean 1.5 miles of
>accelerated climb. this burns out any competition with aching legs. the heat, the strain, weakens
>anybody following. 1.5 miles of sprint left, while others are still climbing lance is speeding
>away to the finish.
What are you on ?!
On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 00:29:12 GMT, "Nick Burns" <chrismcreynolds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Keith" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
>
><snip> Make that 36, tomorrow's stage is NOT a mountain top finish. You guys
>> should look at the stage profile...
>> >
>> >Rick
>
>Huh? One mountain up, then down and up a second one to finish at the top? What do you call that?
I think you should visit an eye doctor - Today's stage - http://makeashorterlink.com/?F21F22155
Tomorrow's stage - http://makeashorterlink.com/?T12F21155 Which one do you think will create the
largest gaps...
On 18 Jul 2003 20:39:10 GMT, neptunium@aol.com (NEPTUNIUM) wrote:
> But tomorrow I question if he will have paid the price for it when it comes to the mountains.
You think armstrong didn't ride a 100% effort?
"Joseph Cipale" <joec@aracnet.com> wrote in message news:3F1891F2.BD874B20@aracnet.com...
> EWC wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 21:24:51 GMT, warren <warren@usvh.com> wrote:
> > >Trying to get back the 1:35 Lance lost can be much harder on a climb when Ullrich knows he only
> > >has to stay on Lance's wheel (or claw his way back to it).
> >
> > Assuming for the sake of argument that the next TT plays out exactly the same as today's, Lance
> > needs to put over 1'02" on Ullrich in the mountains before then to keep the yellow from Ullrich,
> > and Vinokourov needs 2'23" over Ullrich and 1'21" over Armstrong. So Ullrich just needs to limit
> > his loses to Armstrong and Vino; Armstrong needs to attack Ullrich and limit his loses to Vino;
> > and Vino needs to attack the other two.
> >
> > --
> > EWC
>
> In other words...
>
> We are going to see a bloodbath the next three days in the Pyrenees!
This has the potential to be great. About time. Haven't had an exciting Tour since 1989.
"Keith" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:6quhhv8m9jb3b21qg9b11kvjro6sn9hefc@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 00:29:12 GMT, "Nick Burns" <chrismcreynolds@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Keith" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
> >
> ><snip> Make that 36, tomorrow's stage is NOT a mountain top finish. You guys
> >> should look at the stage profile...
> >> >
> >> >Rick
> >
> >Huh? One mountain up, then down and up a second one to finish at the top? What do you call that?
>
> I think you should visit an eye doctor - Today's stage - http://makeashorterlink.com/?F21F22155
> Tomorrow's stage - http://makeashorterlink.com/?T12F21155 Which one do you think will create the
> largest gaps...
Dude, the first mountain is 2000 meters or more than 6000 feet! It is a ranked category 1 only
because it is the first climb. It would be an HC if it was other than the first. Of the three, it is
the easiest but that does not mean it is not a mountain stage. What kind of logic is that? You said:
Make that 36, tomorrow's stage is NOT a mountain top finish. You guys
> >> should look at the stage profile...
Duh. It is a MOUNTAIN TOP FINISH.
(and then he told me to get glasses...****)
keith: take a chill pill. I don't claim to know everything. Of course you know more but that is how
I am learning things. Your so mad that people don't know as much as you. Well God bless you man. I
didn't know what sprint B meant until you said so. It's a bonus sprint. We got people talking about
the Tour, mainly that is what is going on here.
spot: Lance did try 100% no doubt about that but his mouth was dry as cardboard and his tongue stuck
to the roof of his mouth. Is that a valid excuse? could be. so is a puncture, or chain derailing, or
running into a spectator. the time you come in with is the time you get
Davey Crockett wrote:
>
> On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:39:10 +0000, NEPTUNIUM wrote:
>
> > when I read everybody's post today I cannot believe that all you want to do is gloat about Lance
> > loosing out to Jan. But the point is that what you did today reflects what you will do tomorrow.
> > there was a mention on OLN coverage of the race, and it was Phil that mentioned Lance's tempo,
> > "He has perfect tempo". To get that extra 1:36 Jan must have had the best TT of his life and he
> > certainly deserves credit. But tomorrow I question if he will have paid the price for it when it
> > comes to the mountains. I expect that Roberto will carry Lance up to the last 5-6 km and then he
> > will sprint out to gain 2 minutes back over Jan tomorrow.
>
> Tomorrow the Loud Mouth will find out all about the Alamo
After the Alamo came San Jacinto....
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