Lance / Mayo crash chronology, and pedal controversy

[Mrbob]

From a Tivo frame by frame of OLN's coverage carried by DirecTV:

-28 sec Mayo attacks, Armstrong matches, Ullrich matches, but 'not as spritely'
- 15 sec Armstrong counters, Mayo matches, Ullrich still churning about one second behind

sec what appears to be the strap of a musette / feedbag catches Armstrong's right brake lever,
yanking his bars to the right, causing him to fall immediately. If Armstrong has a front brake /
right lever combo he may have locked up his front wheel. Mayo, right behind Armstrong, can't avoid
the crash and rides up onto Armstrong's rear wheel. Both Armstrong and Mayo go down hard. Armstrong
lands left hip, left elbow, left upper back and rolls, appearing not to hit his head, which was off
camera for a few frames. Mayo falls on his left side, clear of the bikes, left hand first, and then
left elbow and left hip / chest / underarm. Mayo's head does not whack ground. Ullrich swerves to
the left, missing Mayo's rear wheel (Mayo's bike is not on top of Mayo) by what appears to be less
that 30 cm.

+5 sec Mayo is on his feet, bike in hand, but has some difficulty getting started. Armstrong on his
feet a seconds or so later and is bent over pulling on his chain / front derailleur.

+11 sec Mayo looks to be getting started, but coverage cuts to instant replay

+23 sec live coverage resumes as Armstrong gets a shove off from a man in a red shirt. Mayo is
long gone.

+ 36 sec Catches up to Rubiera and they fly past Mayo (?) a few seconds later

+ 48 sec Ullrich shown sitting up, looking over his shoulders, other riders catching up

+ 65 sec Armstrong slips out of his right pedal while standing. Right foot popps out at the bottom
of the pedal stroke. Frame by frame of OLN's slo-mo makes it look like a chain slip problem, as
his left foot flys up a frame or so before the right foot pops out. A chain slip is not too
surprising, as Mayo's front wheel rode up onto Armstrong's drivetrain in the crash. Right foot
hits the ground, chest hits stem, crotch hits top tube, left foot does not pop out, and Armstrong
regains control. Mayo passes and gains a second or so. It takes Armstrong a few seconds to restart
fully pumping.

+ 96 sec Ullrich is clearly not attacking, and there is a group of about seven riders with him.
Basso comes to the front of the group and Hamilton catches up and admonishes him to slow down. A
few seconds later...

+ 113 sec Armstrong joins the rear of the Ullrich group

+ 120 sec Mayo attacks but is caught by Ullrich and then the rest of the group.

+ 159 sec Rubiera leads out Armstrong with Ullrich on Armstrong's wheel

+ 205 sec Mayo attacks, Armstrong counters and... well we know the rest.

So 3 minutes and 25 seconds after the crash, Armstrong's attack slaughters the remaining field. How
long is an adrenaline shot good for?

Finally, all this talk about how good / bad the new DA pedals are is at best irrelevant, and
probably wrong- without clips and straps, no pedal system is perfect when the chain slips while the
rider is out of the saddle and under full power. Armstrong's full power. If anything, the pedals
proved themselves wonderfully, as Armstrong's left foot did not pop out, and he did not crash.

[Java Man]

In article <bobmaher-F85460.16095721072003@news.it.northwestern.edu>,
bobmaher@dontspamonme.nwuDOTTedu.dontspamonme says...
> From a Tivo frame by frame of OLN's coverage carried by DirecTV:
>
> -28 sec Mayo attacks, Armstrong matches, Ullrich matches, but 'not as spritely'
> - 15 sec Armstrong counters, Mayo matches, Ullrich still churning about one second behind
>
> sec what appears to be the strap of a musette / feedbag catches Armstrong's right brake lever,
> yanking his bars to the right, causing him to fall immediately. If Armstrong has a front brake /
> right lever combo he may have locked up his front wheel. Mayo, right behind Armstrong, can't
> avoid the crash and rides up onto Armstrong's rear wheel. Both Armstrong and Mayo go down hard.
> Armstrong lands left hip, left elbow, left upper back and rolls, appearing not to hit his head,
> which was off camera for a few frames. Mayo falls on his left side, clear of the bikes, left hand
> first, and then left elbow and left hip / chest / underarm. Mayo's head does not whack ground.
> Ullrich swerves to the left, missing Mayo's rear wheel (Mayo's bike is not on top of Mayo) by
> what appears to be less that 30 cm.
>
> +5 sec Mayo is on his feet, bike in hand, but has some difficulty getting started. Armstrong on
> his feet a seconds or so later and is bent over pulling on his chain / front derailleur.
>
> +11 sec Mayo looks to be getting started, but coverage cuts to instant replay
>
> +23 sec live coverage resumes as Armstrong gets a shove off from a man in a red shirt. Mayo is
> long gone.
>
> + 36 sec Catches up to Rubiera and they fly past Mayo (?) a few seconds later
>
> + 48 sec Ullrich shown sitting up, looking over his shoulders, other riders catching up
>
> + 65 sec Armstrong slips out of his right pedal while standing. Right foot popps out at the bottom
> of the pedal stroke. Frame by frame of OLN's slo-mo makes it look like a chain slip problem, as
> his left foot flys up a frame or so before the right foot pops out. A chain slip is not too
> surprising, as Mayo's front wheel rode up onto Armstrong's drivetrain in the crash. Right foot
> hits the ground, chest hits stem, crotch hits top tube, left foot does not pop out, and
> Armstrong regains control. Mayo passes and gains a second or so. It takes Armstrong a few
> seconds to restart fully pumping.
>
> + 96 sec Ullrich is clearly not attacking, and there is a group of about seven riders with him.
> Basso comes to the front of the group and Hamilton catches up and admonishes him to slow down. A
> few seconds later...
>
> + 113 sec Armstrong joins the rear of the Ullrich group
>
> + 120 sec Mayo attacks but is caught by Ullrich and then the rest of the group.
>
> + 159 sec Rubiera leads out Armstrong with Ullrich on Armstrong's wheel
>
> + 205 sec Mayo attacks, Armstrong counters and... well we know the rest.
>
> So 3 minutes and 25 seconds after the crash, Armstrong's attack slaughters the remaining field.
> How long is an adrenaline shot good for?
>
> Finally, all this talk about how good / bad the new DA pedals are is at best irrelevant, and
> probably wrong- without clips and straps, no pedal system is perfect when the chain slips
> while the rider is out of the saddle and under full power. Armstrong's full power. If
> anything, the pedals proved themselves wonderfully, as Armstrong's left foot did not pop out,
> and he did not crash.
>
Thanks, but you've ruined a lot of good arguments.

;-)

Rick

[Tom Parker]

Great work in analysing and reporting this to us!

-- Tom

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:09:57 -0700, MrBob <bobmaher@dontspamonme.nwuDOTTedu.dontspamonme> wrote:

>From a Tivo frame by frame of OLN's coverage carried by DirecTV:
>
>-28 sec Mayo attacks, Armstrong matches, Ullrich matches, but 'not as spritely'
>- 15 sec Armstrong counters, Mayo matches, Ullrich still churning about one second behind
>
> sec what appears to be the strap of a musette / feedbag catches Armstrong's right brake lever,
> yanking his bars to the right, causing him to fall immediately. If Armstrong has a front brake /
> right lever combo he may have locked up his front wheel. Mayo, right behind Armstrong, can't avoid
> the crash and rides up onto Armstrong's rear wheel. Both Armstrong and Mayo go down hard.
> Armstrong lands left hip, left elbow, left upper back and rolls, appearing not to hit his head,
> which was off camera for a few frames. Mayo falls on his left side, clear of the bikes, left hand
> first, and then left elbow and left hip / chest / underarm. Mayo's head does not whack ground.
> Ullrich swerves to the left, missing Mayo's rear wheel (Mayo's bike is not on top of Mayo) by what
> appears to be less that 30 cm.
>
>+5 sec Mayo is on his feet, bike in hand, but has some difficulty getting started. Armstrong on his
>feet a seconds or so later and is bent over pulling on his chain / front derailleur.
>
>+11 sec Mayo looks to be getting started, but coverage cuts to instant replay
>
>+23 sec live coverage resumes as Armstrong gets a shove off from a man in a red shirt. Mayo is
>long gone.
>
>+ 36 sec Catches up to Rubiera and they fly past Mayo (?) a few seconds later
>
>+ 48 sec Ullrich shown sitting up, looking over his shoulders, other riders catching up
>
>+ 65 sec Armstrong slips out of his right pedal while standing. Right foot popps out at the bottom
> of the pedal stroke. Frame by frame of OLN's slo-mo makes it look like a chain slip problem, as
> his left foot flys up a frame or so before the right foot pops out. A chain slip is not too
> surprising, as Mayo's front wheel rode up onto Armstrong's drivetrain in the crash. Right foot
> hits the ground, chest hits stem, crotch hits top tube, left foot does not pop out, and Armstrong
> regains control. Mayo passes and gains a second or so. It takes Armstrong a few seconds to
> restart fully pumping.
>
>+ 96 sec Ullrich is clearly not attacking, and there is a group of about seven riders with him.
> Basso comes to the front of the group and Hamilton catches up and admonishes him to slow down. A
> few seconds later...
>
>+ 113 sec Armstrong joins the rear of the Ullrich group
>
>+ 120 sec Mayo attacks but is caught by Ullrich and then the rest of the group.
>
>+ 159 sec Rubiera leads out Armstrong with Ullrich on Armstrong's wheel
>
>+ 205 sec Mayo attacks, Armstrong counters and... well we know the rest.
>
>So 3 minutes and 25 seconds after the crash, Armstrong's attack slaughters the remaining field. How
>long is an adrenaline shot good for?
>
>Finally, all this talk about how good / bad the new DA pedals are is at best irrelevant, and
>probably wrong- without clips and straps, no pedal system is perfect when the chain slips while the
>rider is out of the saddle and under full power. Armstrong's full power. If anything, the pedals
>proved themselves wonderfully, as Armstrong's left foot did not pop out, and he did not crash.

[Brian Phillips]

"MrBob" <bobmaher@dontspamonme.nwuDOTTedu.dontspamonme> wrote >

<snip> crotch hits top tube....

Ouch! So maybe there is some advantage to having only one nut...

[Monty]

A chain slip? I'm sorry, what is a chain slip?

Did the chain slip over the chain ring?

"MrBob" <bobmaher@dontspamonme.nwuDOTTedu.dontspamonme> wrote in message
news:bobmaher-F85460.16095721072003@news.it.northwestern.edu...
> + 65 sec Armstrong slips out of his right pedal while standing. Right foot popps out at the bottom
> of the pedal stroke. Frame by frame of OLN's slo-mo makes it look like a chain slip problem, as
> his left foot flys up a frame or so before the right foot pops out. A chain slip is not too
> surprising, as Mayo's front wheel rode up onto Armstrong's drivetrain in the crash. Right foot
> hits the ground, chest hits stem, crotch hits top tube, left foot does not pop out, and
> Armstrong regains control. Mayo passes and gains a second or so. It takes Armstrong a few
> seconds to restart fully pumping.

[Arthur Ogus]

In article <bobmaher-F85460.16095721072003@news.it.northwestern.edu>, MrBob
<bobmaher@dontspamonme.nwuDOTTedu.dontspamonme> wrote:

>

I've just watched the OLN clip over the net. I think the "musette or feedback" is actually one of
the yellow TDF souvenir bags for sale to spectators. (I was at the prologue in Paris, but am back in
the US now.) My wife is mad at me for not having bought one.

[Mrbob]

> "MrBob" <bobmaher@dontspamonme.nwuDOTTedu.dontspamonme> wrote in message
> news:bobmaher-F85460.16095721072003@news.it.northwestern.edu...
> > + 65 sec Armstrong slips out of his right pedal while standing. Right foot popps out at the
> > bottom of the pedal stroke. Frame by frame of OLN's slo-mo makes it look like a chain slip
> > problem, as his left foot flys up a frame or so before the right foot pops out. A chain slip
> > is not too surprising, as Mayo's front wheel rode up onto Armstrong's drivetrain in the crash.
> > Right foot hits the ground, chest hits stem, crotch hits top tube, left foot does not pop out,
> > and Armstrong regains control. Mayo passes and gains a second or so. It takes Armstrong a few
> > seconds to restart fully pumping.
> >
In article <fW0Ta.24036$BM.7481604@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>, "Monty"
<monty@nanandmont.com> wrote:

> A chain slip? I'm sorry, what is a chain slip?
>
> Did the chain slip over the chain ring?

When the chain jumps the rear cogs, or comes off the front chainring. It gives a similar effect to
that of a broken chain - your downward foot drops quickly to the bottom of the pedal stroke. If
you're standing when it happens you'll be lucky to keep control.

[Cyclocross]

I have a nice mpg capture 1.54mb that I will email or post on my site for just tonight if anyone
wants to watch and watch. 480 x 480 svcd compliant file.
>
>

[Mike Murray]

"MrBob" <bobmaher@dontspamonme.nwuDOTTedu.dontspamonme> wrote: "Finally, all this talk about how
good / bad the new DA pedals are is at best irrelevant, and probably wrong-"

Definitely irrelevant with regards to the cleats that we can buy. The designer from Nike that does
Armstrong's shoes told me yesterday that Armstrong is using a special fixed cleat that was custom
made for him by Shimano.

--
Mike Murray

[Raptor]

Brian Phillips wrote:
> "MrBob" <bobmaher@dontspamonme.nwuDOTTedu.dontspamonme> wrote >
>
> <snip> crotch hits top tube....
>
> Ouch! So maybe there is some advantage to having only one nut...

The several times I've seen it today, I did not see LANCE bottom out on the top tube. Rather, it
looks to me like he had a close save using his arms and left leg. I've done the same somewhere among
the 1000's of minor mishaps I've had on my mtb. (And also pranged myself pretty good by not catching
it in time.)

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

[Lindsay]

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 23:48:50 -0600, Raptor <me@attbi.com> wrote:

>The several times I've seen it today, I did not see LANCE bottom out on the top tube. Rather, it
>looks to me like he had a close save using his arms and left leg. I've done the same somewhere
>among the 1000's of minor mishaps I've had on my mtb. (And also pranged myself pretty good by not
>catching it in time.)

He definitely hit the seat with the nether region.

Lindsay
----------------------------
"One of the annoying things about believing in free will and individual responsibility is the
difficulty of finding somebody to blame your problems on. And when you do find somebody, it's
remarkable how often his picture turns up on your driver's license."

P.J. O'Rourke

[Bryan Boldt]

One additional point, chain slip was probably induced as a result of Lance riding with a broken
chainstay. Amazing he didn't notice the broken frame over the next 9km... but then again, he rides
all day with the rear brake on too :)

Why chance remounting the crashed bike, when the mechanic was there to puch him off? Lance spent too
much time fumbling with the jammed chain when they could have whipped out a new bike from the team
car. He lucked out this time, but probably not the best move.

MrBob wrote:
>
> > "MrBob" <bobmaher@dontspamonme.nwuDOTTedu.dontspamonme> wrote in message
> > news:bobmaher-F85460.16095721072003@news.it.northwestern.edu...
> > > + 65 sec Armstrong slips out of his right pedal while standing. Right foot popps out at the
> > > bottom of the pedal stroke. Frame by frame of OLN's slo-mo makes it look like a chain slip
> > > problem, as his left foot flys up a frame or so before the right foot pops out. A chain slip
> > > is not too surprising, as Mayo's front wheel rode up onto Armstrong's drivetrain in the
> > > crash. Right foot hits the ground, chest hits stem, crotch hits top tube, left foot does not
> > > pop out, and Armstrong regains control. Mayo passes and gains a second or so. It takes
> > > Armstrong a few seconds to restart fully pumping.
> > >
> In article <fW0Ta.24036$BM.7481604@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com>, "Monty"
> <monty@nanandmont.com> wrote:
>
> > A chain slip? I'm sorry, what is a chain slip?
> >
> > Did the chain slip over the chain ring?
>
> When the chain jumps the rear cogs, or comes off the front chainring. It gives a similar effect to
> that of a broken chain - your downward foot drops quickly to the bottom of the pedal stroke. If
> you're standing when it happens you'll be lucky to keep control.