Botero's role in today's stage
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After LA and Jan took off, Botero was called back to wait for Vino. Botero was off the front and
second on the road about 2 minutes behind the lone breakaway.
What in the hell did he hope to accomplish that was more important that watching out for Vino?
What in the hell in wrong with the Telekom team? They don't seem to know how to put together a
cohesive team. They have Zabel looking for stage wins and possibly the green jersey (too late now,
but earlier that would have been his goal). They have Vino, who is by far the most successful rider
this year and he was only 18 seconds out of first place and THREE SECONDS from second. Why couldn't
Botero have been riding in the group helping Vinokourov? He would have kept Vino from losing as
much time on the Tourmalet and possibly they would have arrived at the bottom of the final climb
with the other 2 leaders. I have heard no discussion of this. I was always a fan of Botero but this
is terrible.
Vino deserves much better.
In article <tt_Sa.1295$ip3.1244@news.randori.com>, "Nick Burns" <chris@hotmail.com> wrote:
> After LA and Jan took off, Botero was called back to wait for Vino. Botero was off the front and
> second on the road about 2 minutes behind the lone breakaway.
>
> What in the hell did he hope to accomplish that was more important that watching out for Vino?
>
> What in the hell in wrong with the Telekom team? They don't seem to know how to put together a
> cohesive team. They have Zabel looking for stage wins and possibly the green jersey (too late now,
> but earlier that would have been his goal). They have Vino, who is by far the most successful
> rider this year and he was only 18 seconds out of first place and THREE SECONDS from second. Why
> couldn't Botero have been riding in the group helping Vinokourov? He would have kept Vino from
> losing as much time on the Tourmalet and possibly they would have arrived at the bottom of the
> final climb with the other 2 leaders. I have heard no discussion of this. I was always a fan of
> Botero but this is terrible.
>
> Vino deserves much better.
I think they'll reconsider before letting Botero choose his training regimen. Apparently he chose
to race in S. America to get ready for the tour, and that obviously wasn't enough. Botero has done
enough grand tours to know how hard the Tour is. I know the colombian mountains are reputed to be
very tough, but it seems they aren't quite enough to get you ready for the Alps and the Pyrenees!
In article <tt_Sa.1295$ip3.1244@news.randori.com>, Nick Burns <chris@hotmail.com> wrote:
> After LA and Jan took off, Botero was called back to wait for Vino. Botero was off the front and
> second on the road about 2 minutes behind the lone breakaway.
>
> What in the hell did he hope to accomplish that was more important that watching out for Vino?
I wondered the same thing when I saw Botero waiting for Vino. He should have been next to him to
whole time. Watching this Telekom "team" I'm beginning to think they did Julich a favor by leaving
him home to train in Nevada.
-WG
"Nick Burns" <chris@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:tt_Sa.1295$ip3.1244@news.randori.com...
> Why couldn't Botero have been riding in the group helping Vinokourov? He would have kept Vino from
> losing as much time on the Tourmalet and
possibly
> they would have arrived at the bottom of the final climb with the other 2 leaders. I have heard no
> discussion of this.
Vinokourov joined the Armstrong/Ullrich group just a bit after they arrived at the bottom of
the climb.
Nick Burns wrote:
> After LA and Jan took off, Botero was called back to wait for Vino. Botero was off the front and
> second on the road about 2 minutes behind the lone breakaway.
>
> What in the hell did he hope to accomplish that was more important that watching out for Vino?
>
> What in the hell in wrong with the Telekom team? They don't seem to know how to put together a
> cohesive team. They have Zabel looking for stage wins and possibly the green jersey (too late now,
> but earlier that would have been his goal). They have Vino, who is by far the most successful
> rider this year and he was only 18 seconds out of first place and THREE SECONDS from second. Why
> couldn't Botero have been riding in the group helping Vinokourov? He would have kept Vino from
> losing as much time on the Tourmalet and possibly they would have arrived at the bottom of the
> final climb with the other 2 leaders. I have heard no discussion of this. I was always a fan of
> Botero but this is terrible.
>
> Vino deserves much better.
What's different between this and USPS's tactics of 2 and 3 stages ago?
--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.
warren wrote:
>
> In article <tt_Sa.1295$ip3.1244@news.randori.com>, Nick Burns <chris@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > After LA and Jan took off, Botero was called back to wait for Vino. Botero was off the front and
> > second on the road about 2 minutes behind the lone breakaway.
> >
> > What in the hell did he hope to accomplish that was more important that watching out for Vino?
>
> I wondered the same thing when I saw Botero waiting for Vino. He should have been next to him to
> whole time. Watching this Telekom "team" I'm beginning to think they did Julich a favor by leaving
> him home to train in Nevada.
>
> -WG
He was probably supposed to serve the same function Beltran and Rubiera did for Armstrong on the
last climb the previous two days. But Vino isn't Armstrong.
"Nick Burns" <chris@hotmail.com> writes:
> After LA and Jan took off, Botero was called back to wait for Vino. Botero was off the front and
> second on the road about 2 minutes behind the lone breakaway.
> What in the hell did he hope to accomplish that was more important that watching out for Vino?
It's a pretty common tactic, actually. You send your climbing lieutenant ahead on the road so that
he's in a position to help you when you bridge up later in the stage. Botero *did* help Vino on the
Tourmalet descent - they actually made contact with the Armstrong group, but only at the beginning
of the final ascent, where Vino promptly got dropped again.
A great example of this tactic was the Faenza stage of the Giro, where Simoni had Bertognoli (sp?)
up the road, who then helped him all the way to the line, despite being pretty tired.
--
David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Personal: http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/ Free
Software: http://www.dedasys.com/freesoftware/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/
Nick Burns wrote:
> After LA and Jan took off, Botero was called back to wait for Vino. Botero was off the front and
> second on the road about 2 minutes behind the lone breakaway.
>
> What in the hell did he hope to accomplish that was more important that watching out for Vino?
>
> What in the hell in wrong with the Telekom team? They don't seem to know how to put together a
> cohesive team. They have Zabel looking for stage wins and possibly the green jersey (too late now,
> but earlier that would have been his goal). They have Vino, who is by far the most successful
> rider this year and he was only 18 seconds out of first place and THREE SECONDS from second. Why
> couldn't Botero have been riding in the group helping Vinokourov? He would have kept Vino from
> losing as much time on the Tourmalet and possibly they would have arrived at the bottom of the
> final climb with the other 2 leaders. I have heard no discussion of this. I was always a fan of
> Botero but this is terrible.
>
> Vino deserves much better.
As far as helping Vinokourov is concerned at least he did help getting him back up to the chasing
group which eventually caught the yellow jersey group thanks to some hard work from another Telekom
rider (Guerini I think). Maybe if he hadn't been in the break he might already have been dropped and
not have been able to help at all.
Nick Burns wrote:
>
> > After LA and Jan took off, Botero was called back to wait for Vino. Botero was off the front and
> > second on the road about 2 minutes behind the lone breakaway.
> >
> > What in the hell did he hope to accomplish that was more important that watching out for Vino?
Marlene Blanshay wrote:
> I think they'll reconsider before letting Botero choose his training regimen. Apparently he chose
> to race in S. America to get ready for the tour, and that obviously wasn't enough. Botero has
> done enough grand tours to know how hard the Tour is. I know the colombian mountains are reputed
> to be very tough, but it seems they aren't quite enough to get you ready for the Alps and the
> Pyrenees!
Also its winter here in the southern hemisphere so he would not have been heat acclimitised. On top
of that he does not have nearly enough racing miles in his legs this season.
"Donald Munro" <foobar007@webmail.co.za> wrote in message
> > I think they'll reconsider before letting Botero choose his training
> > regimen. Apparently he chose to race in S. America to get ready for the
> > tour, and that obviously wasn't enough. Botero has done enough grand
tours
> > to know how hard the Tour is. I know the colombian mountains are reputed to be very tough, but
> > it seems they aren't quite enough to get you ready for the Alps and the Pyrenees!
>
> Also its winter here in the southern hemisphere so he would not have been heat acclimitised. On
> top of that he does not have nearly enough racing miles in his legs this season.
Colombia sits pretty close to the equator. There are plenty of places in South America to race
year round.
"Raptor" <me@attbi.com> wrote in message news:3F1CCF13.2070500@attbi.com...
> Nick Burns wrote:
> > After LA and Jan took off, Botero was called back to wait for Vino.
Botero
> > was off the front and second on the road about 2 minutes behind the lone breakaway.
> >
> > What in the hell did he hope to accomplish that was more important that watching out for Vino?
> >
> > What in the hell in wrong with the Telekom team? They don't seem to know
how
> > to put together a cohesive team. They have Zabel looking for stage wins
and
> > possibly the green jersey (too late now, but earlier that would have
been
> > his goal). They have Vino, who is by far the most successful rider this
year
> > and he was only 18 seconds out of first place and THREE SECONDS from
second.
> > Why couldn't Botero have been riding in the group helping Vinokourov? He would have kept Vino
> > from losing as much time on the Tourmalet and
possibly
> > they would have arrived at the bottom of the final climb with the other
2
> > leaders. I have heard no discussion of this. I was always a fan of
Botero
> > but this is terrible.
> >
> > Vino deserves much better.
>
> What's different between this and USPS's tactics of 2 and 3 stages ago?
What is different is that USPS has 3 strong climbers. Send one up and the 2 others can stay with
Armstrong. AND, the USPS riders were not riding solo. They were sitting in on a break. Vino was left
ALONE when they had a choice. Lance was never left alone while his team was up the road.
>
> --
> --
> Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
> could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP
> in charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.
"Carl Sundquist" <carlsun@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
news:vhqbourrg0vb2@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Donald Munro" <foobar007@webmail.co.za> wrote in message
> > > I think they'll reconsider before letting Botero choose his training
> > > regimen. Apparently he chose to race in S. America to get ready for
the
> > > tour, and that obviously wasn't enough. Botero has done enough grand
> tours
> > > to know how hard the Tour is. I know the colombian mountains are
reputed
> > > to be very tough, but it seems they aren't quite enough to get you
ready
> > > for the Alps and the Pyrenees!
> >
> > Also its winter here in the southern hemisphere so he would not have been heat acclimitised. On
> > top of that he does not have nearly enough racing miles in his legs this season.
>
> Colombia sits pretty close to the equator. There are plenty of places in South America to race
> year round.
In addition, he was said to have followed the same program as always. There is something about him
that is not widely know. This is a huge disappointment for his fans. It looked like he could have
been the best Colombian cyclist of all time.
On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:07:35 GMT, "Nick Burns" <chris@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Carl Sundquist" <carlsun@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
>news:vhqbourrg0vb2@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>> "Donald Munro" <foobar007@webmail.co.za> wrote in message
>> > > I think they'll reconsider before letting Botero choose his training
>> > > regimen. Apparently he chose to race in S. America to get ready for
>the
>> > > tour, and that obviously wasn't enough. Botero has done enough grand
>> tours
>> > > to know how hard the Tour is. I know the colombian mountains are
>reputed
>> > > to be very tough, but it seems they aren't quite enough to get you
>ready
>> > > for the Alps and the Pyrenees!
>> >
>> > Also its winter here in the southern hemisphere so he would not have been heat acclimitised. On
>> > top of that he does not have nearly enough racing miles in his legs this season.
>>
>> Colombia sits pretty close to the equator. There are plenty of places in South America to race
>> year round.
>
>In addition, he was said to have followed the same program as always. There is something about him
>that is not widely know. This is a huge disappointment for his fans.
Especially those of us who had a fiver on him at 20-1. Damn, my bookie must look forward to July
sooooo much.
Regards! Stephen
foobar007@webmail.co.za (Donald Munro) wrote in news:6b43710.0307220244.3c4ea464@posting.google.com:
> Also its winter here in the southern hemisphere so he would not have been heat acclimitised. On
> top of that he does not have nearly enough racing miles in his legs this season.
Hey dumbass
Here's a map of South America:
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/americas/south_america_ref02.jpg
Botero is from Medellin, Columbia -- you can see that it is just barely north of the equator, so
why are you talking about winter in the southern hemisphere? And why should someone who lives
near the equator have a problem with the heat? (assuming he didn't spend all day inside air
conditioned rooms)
NS
Nick Burns wrote:
> "Raptor" <me@attbi.com> wrote in message news:3F1CCF13.2070500@attbi.com...
>>What's different between this and USPS's tactics of 2 and 3 stages ago?
>
>
> What is different is that USPS has 3 strong climbers. Send one up and the 2 others can stay with
> Armstrong. AND, the USPS riders were not riding solo. They were sitting in on a break. Vino was
> left ALONE when they had a choice. Lance was never left alone while his team was up the road.
And Botero wasn't highly placed, I realize. So the tactic didn't have the same affect on the
peloton. But Telekom wasn't going to save any pace-making work anyway with LANCE and Jan
fighting it out.
--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.
"Nev Shea" <spamtrap@garbage.net> wrote in message
news:9OeTa.16724$Mc.1278498@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> foobar007@webmail.co.za (Donald Munro) wrote in
> news:6b43710.0307220244.3c4ea464@posting.google.com:
>
> > Also its winter here in the southern hemisphere so he would not have been heat acclimitised. On
> > top of that he does not have nearly enough racing miles in his legs this season.
>
> Hey dumbass
>
> Here's a map of South America:
>
> http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/americas/south_america_ref02.jpg
>
> Botero is from Medellin, Columbia -- you can see that it is just barely north of the equator, so
> why are you talking about winter in the southern hemisphere? And why should someone who lives
> near the equator have a problem with the heat? (assuming he didn't spend all day inside air
> conditioned rooms)
>
Actually, it isn't quite as simple as that. Though I can't recall the altitude for Medellin (it is
nestled in a valley between mountains), someone from Bogotá, which is at about 9000 ft, would have
trouble with heat _if that is where they stayed most of the time_.
Even the old Pony Malta team had a training house in Bogotá.
If a rider wasn't based in the high mountains though, they would be plenty acclimatized to the heat,
and a humid heat at that.
"Carl Sundquist" <carlsun@cox-internet.com> wrote in news:vhr07df0dfedc6@corp.supernews.com:
>
> "Nev Shea" <spamtrap@garbage.net> wrote in message
> news:9OeTa.16724$Mc.1278498@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>> foobar007@webmail.co.za (Donald Munro) wrote in
>> news:6b43710.0307220244.3c4ea464@posting.google.com:
>>
>> > Also its winter here in the southern hemisphere so he would not have been heat acclimitised. On
>> > top of that he does not have nearly enough racing miles in his legs this season.
>>
>> Hey dumbass
>>
>> Here's a map of South America:
>>
>> http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/americas/south_america_ref02.jpg
>>
>> Botero is from Medellin, Columbia -- you can see that it is just barely north of the equator, so
>> why are you talking about winter in the southern hemisphere? And why should someone who lives
>> near the equator have a problem with the heat? (assuming he didn't spend all day inside air
>> conditioned rooms)
>>
>
> Actually, it isn't quite as simple as that. Though I can't recall the altitude for Medellin (it is
> nestled in a valley between mountains), someone from Bogotá, which is at about 9000 ft, would have
> trouble with heat _if that is where they stayed most of the time_.
>
> Even the old Pony Malta team had a training house in Bogotá.
>
> If a rider wasn't based in the high mountains though, they would be plenty acclimatized to the
> heat, and a humid heat at that.
Of course you're right --there were two silly posts in a row, and I was lazy and just chose to mock
the one that assumed that South America automatically means southern hemisphere and keep it simple
so I wouldn't confuse all but the more thoughtful readers like you and a few others.
The previous poster believes that proper training in the Andes wouldn't prepare Botero for the
Pyrenees or Alps, and your comments on the altitude contradict that notion. Besides, Botero claimed
to be following the preparation he's always used, so did the Andes somehow become less challenging
since he got 4th on GC last year? If so, let's blame it on El Nino.
I think Botero's problem is that he's got a naturally high testosterone level, and he's just worn
out because all the Columbian babes have been chasing him.
NS
"Nev Shea" <spamtrap@garbage.net> wrote in message
>
> I think Botero's problem is that he's got a naturally high testosterone level, and he's just worn
> out because all the Columbian babes have been chasing him.
>
Lucky him.
On Tue, 22 Jul 2003 18:58:03 GMT, Nev Shea wrote:
>I think Botero's problem is that he's got a naturally high testosterone level, and he's just worn
>out because all the Columbian babes have been chasing him.
Colombian. But good point.
"Nev Shea" <spamtrap@garbage.net> wrote in message
news:%OfTa.115002$Io.9816902@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> "Carl Sundquist" <carlsun@cox-internet.com> wrote in news:vhr07df0dfedc6@corp.supernews.com:
>
> >
> > "Nev Shea" <spamtrap@garbage.net> wrote in message
> > news:9OeTa.16724$Mc.1278498@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> >> foobar007@webmail.co.za (Donald Munro) wrote in
> >> news:6b43710.0307220244.3c4ea464@posting.google.com:
> >>
> >> > Also its winter here in the southern hemisphere so he would not have been heat acclimitised.
> >> > On top of that he does not have nearly enough racing miles in his legs this season.
> >>
> >> Hey dumbass
> >>
> >> Here's a map of South America:
> >>
> >> http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/americas/south_america_ref02.jpg
> >>
> >> Botero is from Medellin, Columbia -- you can see that it is just barely north of the equator,
> >> so why are you talking about winter in the southern hemisphere? And why should someone who
> >> lives near the equator have a problem with the heat? (assuming he didn't spend all day inside
> >> air conditioned rooms)
> >>
> >
> > Actually, it isn't quite as simple as that. Though I can't recall the altitude for Medellin (it
> > is nestled in a valley between mountains), someone from Bogotá, which is at about 9000 ft, would
> > have trouble with heat _if that is where they stayed most of the time_.
> >
> > Even the old Pony Malta team had a training house in Bogotá.
> >
> > If a rider wasn't based in the high mountains though, they would be plenty acclimatized to the
> > heat, and a humid heat at that.
>
>
> Of course you're right --there were two silly posts in a row, and I was lazy and just chose to
> mock the one that assumed that South America automatically means southern hemisphere and keep it
> simple so I wouldn't confuse all but the more thoughtful readers like you and a few others.
>
> The previous poster believes that proper training in the Andes wouldn't prepare Botero for the
> Pyrenees or Alps, and your comments on the altitude contradict that notion. Besides, Botero
> claimed to be following the preparation he's always used, so did the Andes somehow become less
> challenging since he got 4th on GC last year? If so, let's blame it on El Nino.
>
> I think Botero's problem is that he's got a naturally high testosterone level, and he's just worn
> out because all the Columbian babes have been chasing him.
>
> NS
More like gangsters. There are many many people that leave Colombia because high visibility is
dangerous in a country that has organized criminals that do nothing else but kidnap people for
ransom the way that Al Capone organized the bootlegging.
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