New car lights

Simon Mason

I noticed in this week's Auto Express that a new BMW model, can't recall which one, is to be fitted
with red rear led lights instead of filament bulbs. I wonder if this new feature will mean that red
leds will now be 100% legal for bikes as well?

--
Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W http://www.simonmason.karoo.net (http://www.simonmason.karoo.net/)

Just Zis Guy

"Simon Mason" <simon@simonmason.karoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:vi2dajr54vmvd0@corp.supernews.com...

> I noticed in this week's Auto Express that a new BMW model, can't recall which one, is to be
> fitted with red rear led lights instead of filament bulbs. I wonder if this new feature will mean
> that red leds will now be
100%
> legal for bikes as well?

They already are, provided the comply with the relevant British Standard (or nearest European
equivalent) - but not when flashing.

--
Guy
===

WARNING: may contain traces of irony. Contents may settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.com (http://www.chapmancentral.com/)

Just Zis Guy

Mark

"Simon Mason" wrote ...
> I noticed in this week's Auto Express that a new BMW model, can't recall which one, is to be
> fitted with red rear led lights instead of filament bulbs. I wonder if this new feature will mean
> that red leds will now be
100%
> legal for bikes as well?
>
> --
> Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W

I see cars built in various countries, trucks, and busses everywhere here in the US with LED rear
lights, which strikes me as a great improvement over the filament lights. I've even seen a few
police cars with flashing LED rooftop lights, again a great improvement. Are these not legal in the
EU or in certain countries in the EU?

Lots of LED's on the market for bicycles here too, the trouble is getting people to use them!
--
mark

Steve Peake

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:13:54 +0100, Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:

> "Simon Mason" <simon@simonmason.karoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:vi2dajr54vmvd0@corp.supernews.com...
>
>> I noticed in this week's Auto Express that a new BMW model, can't recall which one, is to be
>> fitted with red rear led lights instead of filament bulbs. I wonder if this new feature will mean
>> that red leds will now be
> 100%
>> legal for bikes as well?
>
> They already are, provided the comply with the relevant British Standard (or nearest European
> equivalent) - but not when flashing.

I've noticed that most modern buses have the LED style rear lamps, both rear and indicator.

Steve

Pete Biggs

mark wrote:
> I see cars built in various countries, trucks, and busses everywhere here in the US with LED rear
> lights, which strikes me as a great improvement over the filament lights.

I've seen them here in the UK on buses and they don't show up as well in bright sunlight. I don't
like them.

~PB

Arthur Clune

Simon Mason <simon@simonmason.karoo.co.uk> wrote:

: So has all reference to incandescent filament bulbs been removed from the UK law?

Dunno about all law, but for bicycles, LEDs are now legal since either the law or the British
Standard (I forgot which) was altered to exclude references to blubs (ISTR it was the British
Standard that needed altering not the law, but I may have it the wrong way round)

Arthur

The Mark

Steve Peake wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 15:13:54 +0100, Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
>
>> "Simon Mason" <simon@simonmason.karoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:vi2dajr54vmvd0@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>>> I noticed in this week's Auto Express that a new BMW model, can't recall which one, is to be
>>> fitted with red rear led lights instead of filament bulbs. I wonder if this new feature will
>>> mean that red leds will now be 100% legal for bikes as well?
>>
>> They already are, provided the comply with the relevant British Standard (or nearest European
>> equivalent) - but not when flashing.
>
> I've noticed that most modern buses have the LED style rear lamps, both rear and indicator.
>
> Steve

I noticed that to. They are expletively bright.
--
Mark Road bike, Mountain bike and I'm getting something special built for me (I hope it will
arrive soon).

Trevor Barton

Simon Mason <simon@simonmason.karoo.co.uk> wrote:
> I noticed in this week's Auto Express that a new BMW model, can't recall which one, is to be
> fitted with red rear led lights instead of filament bulbs. I wonder if this new feature will mean
> that red leds will now be 100% legal for bikes as well?

LEDs have been used in some cars for years now. Predominantly in the middle brake light, but they're
becoming more common in the side brake lights as well. They have the advantage that they last for
ever and also they come on in milliseconds, which is supposed to give the person following an
advantage over bulbs, which of course take longer. I'm not convinced the difference is significant,
though, given normal reaction times, but so-called experts seem to think so.

Trev

Chris Malcolm

Trevor Barton <tmb@tmjabarton.Xplus.com> writes:

>Simon Mason <simon@simonmason.karoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> I noticed in this week's Auto Express that a new BMW model, can't recall which one, is to be
>> fitted with red rear led lights instead of filament bulbs. I wonder if this new feature will mean
>> that red leds will now be 100% legal for bikes as well?

>LEDs have been used in some cars for years now. Predominantly in the middle brake light, but
>they're becoming more common in the side brake lights as well. They have the advantage that they
>last for ever and also they come on in milliseconds, which is supposed to give the person following
>an advantage over bulbs, which of course take longer. I'm not convinced the difference is
>significant, though, given normal reaction times, but so-called experts seem to think so.

If reaction time mattered that much, then car brake pedals wouldn't be operated by the heaviest limb
in the body situated at the furthest distance from the brain. That has a pretty significant effect
on braking reaction times. It's a really dumb piece of ergonomics.

--
Chris Malcolm cam@inf.ed.ac.uk +44 (0)131 650 3085 DoD #205 School of Informatics, Edinburgh
University, 5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK. [http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/ ]

Graeme

cam@holyrood.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) wrote in news:bfsd7i$cme$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk:

> If reaction time mattered that much, then car brake pedals wouldn't be operated by the heaviest
> limb in the body situated at the furthest distance from the brain. That has a pretty significant
> effect on braking reaction times. It's a really dumb piece of ergonomics.

That's probably just a hang over from the original design. Non-power assisted brakes need a fair bit
of power and your leg is one of the only ways of operating them with enough strength. These days
though you could maybe operate it some other way, the trouble would be the transistion period of
getting people who are used to a foot operated brake to operating a (possibly) hand operated brake.

Maybe have it voice activated, with an emergency stop initiated by a scream of "Aaaaagh, get out
the way!" :-)

Have fun!

Graeme

Andyk

> I noticed in this week's Auto Express that a new BMW model, can't recall which one, is to be
> fitted with red rear led lights instead of filament bulbs. I wonder if this new feature will mean
> that red leds will now be
100%
> legal for bikes as well?
>
> --
> Simon Mason Anlaby East Yorkshire. 53°44'N 0°26'W http://www.simonmason.karoo.net (http://www.simonmason.karoo.net/)
>

We're in Europe now remember, so I don't think it would be possible to nail a cyclist for using LED
lights as long as they'd be acceptable for use elsewhere on the continent. That's my excuse, M'lud.

Regarding BMWs, are the indicators still optional extras? :-)

Nick Kew

In article <vi2dajr54vmvd0@corp.supernews.com>, one of infinite monkeys at the keyboard of "Simon
Mason" <simon@simonmason.karoo.co.uk> wrote:
> I noticed in this week's Auto Express that a new BMW model, can't recall which one, is to be
> fitted with red rear led lights instead of filament bulbs. I wonder if this new feature will mean
> that red leds will now be 100% legal for bikes as well?

A few weeks ago I got stopped for using LEDs. Specifically for having a LED on the front; they were
happy with the back one (which was flashing). In fairness, the front one was indeed feeble.

This was on a stretch of road on the way home from Plymouth known as the Vomit Zone, because a
McDonalds and a KFC in quick succession give the road an overwhelming stench of grease and general
filth. In order to get past quickly with minimal breathing, I turn the dynamo lights off and put the
head down. The road traffic risk is very minimal, as the road is wide (2 lanes + bus lane each way)
and well-lit, and there's virtually no traffic turning outside shopping hours.

--
Axis of Evil: Whose economy needs ever more wars? Arms Exports $bn: USA 14.2, UK 5.1, vs France 1.5,
Germany 0.8 (The Economist, July 2002)

Just Zis Guy

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 12:02:53 +0100, nick@fenris.webthing.com (Nick Kew) wrote:

>A few weeks ago I got stopped for using LEDs. Specifically for having a LED on the front; they were
>happy with the back one (which was flashing). In fairness, the front one was indeed feeble.

No BS approved front light? Illegal. There is talk of making flashing LEDs legal but it prolly won't
come to much - for some discussion see <http://www.chapmancentral.com/Web/public.nsf/Documents/rvlr> (http://www.chapmancentral.com/Web/public.nsf/Documents/rvlr)

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com (http://www.chapmancentral.com/) [currently
offline awaiting ADSL transfer to new ISP]

Steve Peake wrote:

> I've noticed that most modern buses have the LED style rear lamps, both rear and indicator.
>
> Steve

Sporty motorbikes using them for brake lights for a couple of years now - the Yamaha R1/R6 spring to
mind as having them.

And I have a Cateye LED which is BS marked, and according to the instructions, BS-approved when in
steady mode.

--

Regards,

Mark Davies

David Hansen

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 10:08:38 +0100 someone who may be "AndyK" <nospam@nospam.nospam> wrote this:-

>We're in Europe now remember,

The UK has been in Europe for rather longer than I can remember.

>so I don't think it would be possible to nail a cyclist for using LED lights as long as they'd be
>acceptable for use elsewhere on the continent.

Provided they meet or exceed the standard in another EU country then there is no legal problem. I
imagine this dates from Mrs Thatcher passing the Single European Act through the Westminster rogues'
gallery. Only Little Englanders stick to British Standards and all that nonsense.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

David Hansen

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 18:59:26 +0100 someone who may be "Just zis Guy, you know?"
<guy.chapman@spamcop.net> wrote this:-

>No BS approved front light? Illegal.

Incorrect.

Provided an LED front light meets the standards in another EU country it is legal to use in the UK.
British Standard? So what? Mrs Thatcher was responsible for this I gather, strangely enough.

If the light is not approved for use in any EU country *then* it is illegal.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

Marc

Graeme <graeme@gpdods.removethis.com> wrote:

> Maybe have it voice activated, with an emergency stop initiated by a scream of "Aaaaagh, get out
> the way!" :-)

With an "easter egg" that applied the brakes to a stop for 5 minutes whenever "Get on the cycle
path!" was heard?

--
Marc Stickers,decals,membership,cards, T shirts, signs etc for clubs and associations of all types.
http://www.jaceeprint.demon.co.uk/

Marc

Ian Smith

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 11:42:19 +0100, MD <mailme@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> And I have a Cateye LED which is BS marked, and according to the instructions, BS-approved when
> in steady mode.

BS approved does not mean legal, though. The law refers to a specific version of a specific BS, and
LEDs will not meet that BS, because it specifies filament lamps.

However, you can now be legal without satisfying the BS - courtesy of the EU.

Incidently, your cateye _won't_ be BS if you've fitted it with teh standard bracket (the one that
adjusts for size by means of a cable-tie like mechanism). Somehow the BS manages to make that type
bracket not qualify, so you need to buy the alternative style bracket (which comes in various sizes
to accomodate different size tubes). Little point in doing that, though, since meetinmgthe current
BS does you less good (legally) than meeting teh German standards, which do not object to LEDs.

regards, Ian SMith
--
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