Listening to the oldies
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I decided to take a slow day at the Vincennes bike course just outside Paris, and rode with some
really slow old guys, and ended up learning quite a lot. They were riding at about 22kph average,
but doing an 80 km ride...
Anyway, this guy was at least 75 years old, and had encyclopedic knowledge of cycling, including
results of the current world track championships, which I found pretty surprising.
Some interesting things I did not know is that when he was racing, back in 1948, people were doping
themselves with ether, one bottle of water and one bottle of ether, which they drank with 10 km to
go. I couldn't get him to describe exactly how it helped, he just said that they went nuts. Other
people used white wine, which made them more nervous, but could also cause cramps, as well as porto
with raw eggs. Apparently, all the ether guys died prematurely...
Gearing was limited to a front 46 T chainring, and rear 14-18. In the winter was fixed gear
tranining starting with a 22T down to a 14T. This was for the Paris region. Not clear what the
gearing for high mountains was.
Apparently, there was one guy in the peloton who used to be one of Coppi's teammates, and is 88
years old, so I'll try to track him down and talk to him.
-ilan
"Ilan Vardi" <ilan@tonyaharding.org> wrote in message
news:6c8faec2.0308011327.2c763140@posting.google.com...
> I decided to take a slow day at the Vincennes bike course just outside
Paris,
> and rode with some really slow old guys, and ended up learning quite a
lot.
> They were riding at about 22kph average, but doing an 80 km ride...
>
> Anyway, this guy was at least 75 years old, and had encyclopedic knowledge of cycling, including
> results of the current world track championships, which I found pretty surprising.
>
> Some interesting things I did not know is that when he was racing, back in 1948, people were
> doping themselves with ether, one bottle of water and one bottle of ether, which they drank with
> 10 km to go. I couldn't get him to describe exactly how it helped, he just said that they went
> nuts. Other people used white wine, which made them more nervous, but could also cause cramps, as
> well as porto with raw eggs. Apparently, all the ether guys died prematurely...
>
> Gearing was limited to a front 46 T chainring, and rear 14-18.
Not in 1948 anymore. The "double plateau" had already been introduced in 1946 (by René Vietto and
Apo Lazarides). It's true that the Italians adopted it only two years later.
> In the winter was fixed gear tranining starting with a 22T down to a 14T. This was for the Paris
> region. Not clear what the gearing for high mountains was.
>
> Apparently, there was one guy in the peloton who used to be one of Coppi's teammates, and is 88
> years old, so I'll try to track him down and talk to him.
Was he French or Italian?
Benjo Maso
ilan@tonyaharding.org (Ilan Vardi) wrote in news:6c8faec2.0308011327.2c763140@posting.google.com:
> I decided to take a slow day at the Vincennes bike course just outside Paris, and rode with some
> really slow old guys, and ended up learning quite a lot. They were riding at about 22kph average,
> but doing an 80 km ride...
>
> Anyway, this guy was at least 75 years old, and had encyclopedic knowledge of cycling, including
> results of the current world track championships, which I found pretty surprising.
>
> Some interesting things I did not know is that when he was racing, back in 1948, people were
> doping themselves with ether, one bottle of water and one bottle of ether, which they drank with
> 10 km to go. I couldn't get him to describe exactly how it helped, he just said that they went
> nuts. Other people used white wine, which made them more nervous, but could also cause cramps, as
> well as porto with raw eggs. Apparently, all the ether guys died prematurely...
>
> Gearing was limited to a front 46 T chainring, and rear 14-18. In the winter was fixed gear
> tranining starting with a 22T down to a 14T. This was for the Paris region. Not clear what the
> gearing for high mountains was.
>
> Apparently, there was one guy in the peloton who used to be one of Coppi's teammates, and is 88
> years old, so I'll try to track him down and talk to him.
>
> -ilan
This is actually the most interesting thing I've read on this newsgroup in a loooooong time.
Thanks again,
- Boyd S.
"Ilan Vardi" <ilan@tonyaharding.org> wrote in message
news:6c8faec2.0308011327.2c763140@posting.google.com... <snip> Other people used white wine, which
made them more nervous,
> but could also cause cramps, as well as porto with raw eggs.
Mmmmm... porto with raw eggs... I'm gonna have to try that one.
ilan@tonyaharding.org (Ilan Vardi) wrote in message
news:<6c8faec2.0308011327.2c763140@posting.google.com>...
>
> Some interesting things I did not know is that when he was racing, back in 1948, people were
> doping themselves with ether, one bottle of water and one bottle of ether, which they drank
> with 10 km to go. I couldn't get him to describe exactly how it helped, he just said that they
> went nuts.
I looked this up in the book "Dopage aux Jeux Olympiques" by Jean-Pierre Mondenard:
1. The first known case of doping in cycling was in 1860 about, when it was found that a danish
cyclist was pouring ether on a piece of sugar.
2. Roger Lapebie: In the years that I spent in the professional peloton (1932-1939), I saw guys
that drank. I should rather say that I could smell them! In the thirties all those guys were
running on ether.
3. Rugby: An well-known international player of the period 1946-1952 often reminisced: `...that
strange odor of ether which rose from the scrum during the French championships of 1949 in the
Montois stadium of the Castres Olympique.'
-ilan
"Ilan Vardi" <ilan@tonyaharding.org> wrote in message
news:6c8faec2.0308011833.73b3abfd@posting.google.com...
> ilan@tonyaharding.org (Ilan Vardi) wrote in message
news:<6c8faec2.0308011327.2c763140@posting.google.com>...
> >
> > Some interesting things I did not know is that when he was racing, back in 1948, people were
> > doping themselves with ether, one bottle of water and one bottle of ether, which they drank
> > with 10 km to go. I couldn't get him to describe exactly how it helped, he just said that they
> > went nuts.
>
> I looked this up in the book "Dopage aux Jeux Olympiques" by Jean-Pierre Mondenard:
>
> 1. The first known case of doping in cycling was in 1860 about, when it was found that a danish
> cyclist was pouring ether on a piece of sugar.
>
> 2. Roger Lapebie: In the years that I spent in the professional peloton (1932-1939), I saw guys
> that drank. I should rather say that I could smell them! In the thirties all those guys were
> running on ether.
>
> 3. Rugby: An well-known international player of the period 1946-1952 often reminisced: `...that
> strange odor of ether which rose from the scrum during the French championships of 1949 in the
> Montois stadium of the Castres Olympique.'
>
> -ilan
I guess I need a medical lesson, but what is ether going to do for you in a race?
"Ilan Vardi" <ilan@tonyaharding.org> wrote in message
news:6c8faec2.0308011327.2c763140@posting.google.com...
> I decided to take a slow day at the Vincennes bike course just outside
Paris,
> and rode with some really slow old guys, and ended up learning quite a
lot.
> They were riding at about 22kph average, but doing an 80 km ride...
I can't imagine these guys at Longchamps. Are they the bandy-legged ones wearing knapsacks?
I'm not too terribly keen on the pistes but of the two I prefer Vincennes. I do find it slightly
annoying that no one ever seems to want to take a pull.
"Robert Chung" <invalid@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:<3f2b43b2$0$23234$626a54ce@news.free.fr>...
>
> I can't imagine these guys at Longchamps. Are they the bandy-legged ones wearing knapsacks?
Yup, this guy was of this ilk. I started talking to him because he had 70's style Adidas cycling
shoes in pristine state. He told me that he bought 2 pairs 10 years ago at the store next to the Arc
de Triomphe run by these 2 old women, and therefore has an unused pair in reserve. He also had
downtube shifters and fenders. He told me he had toe straps, because he was too old to get used to
clipless pedals when they came out.
> I'm not too terribly keen on the pistes but of the two I prefer Vincennes. I do find it slightly
> annoying that no one ever seems to want to take a pull.
Yup, same here. At Vincennes, you can get into some good fairly good groups, if you're lucky, and
the worksharing programs start when the speed goes above 35 kph. From about 28 to 32 kph, you'll
just get guys sitting on your wheel, but at 35 kph they will usually give up fairly quickly.
-ilan
"Tom Paterson" <dustoyevsky@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20030802004457.18517.00000688@mb-m18.aol.com...
> >From: "Mack Mad"
>
> >I guess I need a medical lesson, but what is ether going to do for you in
a
> >race?
>
> No brain, no pain? --Tom Paterson
Yeah, I guess the pain would be of no concern with a little ether. Here I was thinking performance,
they just want to be numb, comfortably numb.
"benjo maso" <benjo.maso@chello.nl> wrote in message
news:<bgenbq$nujji$1@ID-75468.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> >
> > Gearing was limited to a front 46 T chainring, and rear 14-18.
>
> Not in 1948 anymore. The "double plateau" had already been introduced in 1946 (by René Vietto and
> Apo Lazarides). It's true that the Italians adopted it only two years later.
Well, this shows that such high tech was unavailable to French amateurs at the time. I am
still quite interested in knowing what gears were used to climb Pyrenees and Alps in the 30's,
40's, and 50's.
> > Apparently, there was one guy in the peloton who used to be one of Coppi's teammates, and is 88
> > years old, so I'll try to track him down and talk to him.
>
>
> Was he French or Italian?
I assume French, which is consistent with Bobet being on Coppi's team. I didn't catch his name. The
guy I talked to also mentioned that until two years ago, there was also a person riding at Vincennes
who won a gold medal at the 1936 Summer Olympics, and who was also about 90. I didn't catch his name
either, but I looked it up, and it could be the road race, team road race, or team p
"Ilan Vardi" <ilan@tonyaharding.org> wrote in message
news:6c8faec2.0308020738.767c966f@posting.google.com...
> "benjo maso" <benjo.maso@chello.nl> wrote in message
news:<bgenbq$nujji$1@ID-75468.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> > >
> > > Gearing was limited to a front 46 T chainring, and rear 14-18.
> >
> > Not in 1948 anymore. The "double plateau" had already been introduced in 1946 (by René Vietto
> > and Apo Lazarides). It's true that the Italians
adopted
> > it only two years later.
>
> Well, this shows that such high tech was unavailable to French amateurs at the time. I am still
> quite interested in knowing what gears were used to climb Pyrenees and Alps in the 30's, 40's,
> and 50's.
I can give you some data: Gino Bartali in 1938: Tourmalet 46 - 19. Izouard 46 - 21.
Impanis in 1948: 46/49 - 15, 16, 19, 21, 24 in the Pyrenees, 46/49 - 15, 17, 20, 22, 24 in the
Alpes. Jean Robic in '47 and '48: 46/ 40 - 14, 15, 16, 18, 20. In 1952 on the Puy de Dome: Coppi
45/50 - 14, 17, 20, 22, 25. Bartali and Magni 46/50 - 14, 17, 20, 22, 25. I've some more data on
'48, but I must look it up.
> > > Apparently, there was one guy in the peloton who used to be one of Coppi's teammates, and is
> > > 88 years old, so I'll try to track him down and talk to him.
> >
> >
> > Was he French or Italian?
>
> I assume French, which is consistent with Bobet being on Coppi's team. I didn't catch his name.
Bobet was never on Coppi's team. The only Frenchman I know was Geminiani. But there may have been
others of course.
The guy I talked to also mentioned that until
> two years ago, there was also a person riding at Vincennes who won a gold medal at the 1936 Summer
> Olympics, and who was also about 90. I didn't catch his name either, but I looked it up, and it
> could be the road race, team road race, or team p
Last year in Bordeaux I have seen Guy Lapébie, one of the gold medaillists of '36. He is 88 and
still riding 40 to 60 km a day (depends of the weather!).
Benjo Maso
ilan@tonyaharding.org (Ilan Vardi) writes:
> "benjo maso" <benjo.maso@chello.nl> wrote in message news:<bgenbq$nujji$1=
@ID-75468.news.uni-berlin.de>...
>>=20
>> Was he French or Italian?
>
> I assume French, which is consistent with Bobet being on Coppi's team. I didn't catch his name.=20
Ooops. The teams were national teams from 1930 until the mid to late 50's a= nd Louis (commonly
called Louison) Bobet certainly wasn't on Coppi's squad = ever. I just thought I'd tactfully point
this out because you at least seem= to know what you are talking about when you post.
I don't remember anything pre-war, but I followed every Tour since Robic pu= lled his upset by
screwing up on the Bonsecours (Very aptly named, no?) so = I do have a reasonable memory of
events post-war.
1947 in Reflection:
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Once again Ren=E9 Vietto could count himself unlucky not to win the Tour. I= t was as if the war
hadn't happened when Vietto finished alone into Brussel= s, and by the end of stage three he had a
lead of 1'22" on Aldo Ronconi and= no less than 8'01" over third place man Pierre Brambilla. Ronconi
briefly = snatched the lead in the Alps, but another impressive display at Digne-les-= Bains, when
only Apo Lazarid=E8s could stay with him, saw Vietto back in th= e lead. He held the lead all the
way through the Pyrenees, where Jean Robic= , languishing low down in the general classification,
was given his head to= win the big Luchon - Pau stage on his own by ten minutes. By Vannes, with =
just three stages left, Vietto could be forgiven for thinking that finally,= his luck was to change.
Alas, however, for one of those three stages was a= time trial, and no ordinary one at that: the
139km from Vannes to St Brieu= c, stand as the longest time trial in Tour history. Raymond Impanis
took th= e victory, but it was Brambilla who took over the Yellow Jersey as Vietto's= aging leg
failed him as the distance told.=20
And there it might have ended, except that one man had other ideas. On the = final stage, on a small
hill called "Bonsecours", Robic sprinted ahead of t= he bunch, chasing the hilltop prime. Ahead
there was a small leading group;= had Robic remembered this group, perhaps he wouldn't have
sprinted. As it = was, at the top, he realised Brambilla had been dropped, and when Lucien Te=
isseire dropped back from the break, Robic, Edouard Fachleitner and Teissei= re started to chase
hard. By Paris, Briek Schotte won the stage alone, but = the Robic group had been riding flat out
all the way. By time Brambilla fin= ished, thirteen minutes and five seconds had ticked by: Robic
had won the T= our without ever wearing the Yellow Jersey. Fachleitner took second overall= , with
poor Brambilla in third, ahead of of Ronconi and the rapidly aging V= ietto.=20
Robic did win I think 4 stages, but le Roi Rene was in Yellow most of the w= ay and it was a bitter
pill to swallow when Robic stole the Yellow.
Here's the first of the national squads in 1930 just for interest:
http://members.rogers.com/worlds2003/1930frenchteam.gif
(Gauche a Droit -: Andre Leducq; Antonin Magne; Marcel Bidot; Pierre Magne;= Charles Pelissier;
Jules Merviel [ the other two equipiers packed on stage= 9, 231 klicks from Pau - Luchon after Binda
tore the race apart] )
Le vent a Dos
--
Davey Crockett
How about a Porto Flip
a.. 1 teaspoon Bénédictine
b.. 3 parts port
c.. 4-5 ice cubes
d.. 1 egg
e.. 1 part thin cream
Put the ice cubes into a cocktail shaker. Pour the egg, cream, port and Bénédictine over the ice.
Shake until a frost forms. Strain and pour into a sour glass.
"Brian Phillips" <bumphilNOSPAM@earthlink.net> a écrit dans le message de
news:nxDWa.128947$Io.10934627@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> "Ilan Vardi" <ilan@tonyaharding.org> wrote in message
> news:6c8faec2.0308011327.2c763140@posting.google.com... <snip> Other people used white wine, which
> made them more nervous,
> > but could also cause cramps, as well as porto with raw eggs.
>
> Mmmmm... porto with raw eggs... I'm gonna have to try that one.
"benjo maso" <benjo.maso@chello.nl> wrote in message
news:<bggq5c$o2kd0$1@ID-75468.news.uni-berlin.de>...
>
> I can give you some data: Gino Bartali in 1938: Tourmalet 46 - 19. Izouard 46 - 21.
>
> Impanis in 1948: 46/49 - 15, 16, 19, 21, 24 in the Pyrenees, 46/49 - 15, 17, 20, 22, 24 in the
> Alpes. Jean Robic in '47 and '48: 46/ 40 - 14, 15, 16, 18, 20. In 1952 on the Puy de Dome: Coppi
> 45/50 - 14, 17, 20, 22, 25. Bartali and Magni 46/50 - 14, 17, 20, 22, 25. I've some more data on
> '48, but I must look it up.
Thanks for this info! I have no idea where one could find this information, apart from asking you.
> Bobet was never on Coppi's team. The only Frenchman I know was Geminiani. But there may have been
> others of course.
OK, sorry about that. I just watched a documentary about Fausto Coppi, and for some reason, I
assumed that there was a period in which Bobet was a Coppi teammate in the Giro. There was one
scene in the documentary in which, Coppi, Bartali, Bobet, etc., are taking part in a skit in
which some guy is singing an opera aria with the words changed to predictions of the Giro. My
(false) preconception was also strengthened by what, at least to me, is the affectation by Bobet
of habits of Coppi, that is, wearing stylish sunglasses and always making sure his hair is combed
at stage finishes.
> Last year in Bordeaux I have seen Guy Lapébie, one of the gold medaillists of '36. He is 88 and
> still riding 40 to 60 km a day (depends of the weather!).
Well, gives one hope for the future, at least. According to Jean-Paul Ollivier, the oldest living
Tour de France participant is 89 years old and rode in the 30's.
-ilan
"Ilan Vardi" <ilan@tonyaharding.org> wrote in message
news:6c8faec2.0308021642.35339032@posting.google.com...
> "benjo maso" <benjo.maso@chello.nl> wrote in message
news:<bggq5c$o2kd0$1@ID-75468.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> >
> > I can give you some data: Gino Bartali in 1938: Tourmalet 46 - 19.
Izouard
> > 46 - 21.
> >
> > Impanis in 1948: 46/49 - 15, 16, 19, 21, 24 in the Pyrenees, 46/49 - 15,
17,
> > 20, 22, 24 in the Alpes. Jean Robic in '47 and '48: 46/ 40 - 14, 15, 16, 18, 20. In 1952 on the
> > Puy de Dome: Coppi 45/50 - 14, 17, 20, 22, 25. Bartali
and
> > Magni 46/50 - 14, 17, 20, 22, 25. I've some more data on '48, but I must look it up.
>
> Thanks for this info! I have no idea where one could find this
information,
> apart from asking you.
I've read it in newspapers from that period. Robic's gearing might seem a little bit strange, but he
had a opinion of his own on everything and he was convinced that the fewer teeth(?) (dents) he used,
the better. So in his opinion 40 x 20 was better than 48 x 24.
> > Bobet was never on Coppi's team. The only Frenchman I know was
Geminiani.
> > But there may have been others of course.
>
> OK, sorry about that. I just watched a documentary about Fausto Coppi, and for some reason, I
> assumed that there was a period in which Bobet was a Coppi teammate in the Giro. There was one
> scene in the documentary in which, Coppi, Bartali, Bobet, etc., are taking part in a skit in which
> some guy is singing an opera aria with the words changed to predictions of the Giro.
That must have been a scene from "Totò al Giro d'Italia", an extremely funny movie. It was shot in
september 1948 when Copi and Bartali were both suspended. Other participants were Bobet, Schotte,
Magni, Cottur, Kübler, Corrieri, Ortelli and many others.
> My (false) preconception was also strengthened by what, at least to me, is the affectation by
> Bobet of habits of Coppi, that is, wearing stylish sunglasses and always making sure his hair is
> combed at stage finishes.
Coppi and Bobet were very good friends fort some time (until Bobet became worldchampion and Coppi
began him to see as a real threat). Bobet even went some times to visit Coppi in Italy to learn the
tricks of the trade, but they were never in the same team.
>
> > Last year in Bordeaux I have seen Guy Lapébie, one of the gold
medaillists
> > of '36. He is 88 and still riding 40 to 60 km a day (depends of the weather!).
>
> Well, gives one hope for the future, at least. According to Jean-Paul Ollivier, the oldest living
> Tour de France participant is 89 years old and rode in the 30's.
Probably Jean-Marie Goasmat who particpated to every Tour between 1936 to 1951. He was born in 1913
and is still living. When I was in Bretagne a year ago, I phoned him for a documentary but he didn't
seem to understand anything. I was afraid he was dementing a little bit, but later I heard he was
only a bit deaf ... Theo Middelkamp (1936-38) and Giordano Cottur (1938, 47, 48), both from 1914,
are also still living. I've seen them both last year. Cottur is still working fulltime and he told
me that for six month he had had hardly any time to ride, because he had been too busy launching a
new mountainbike "Cottur". But he hoped to make it up next year :-)
Benjo Maso
On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 02:35:11 +0100, benjo maso wrote:
>Theo Middelkamp (1936-38) and Giordano Cottur (1938, 47, 48), both from 1914, are also still
>living. I've seen them both last year. Cottur is still working fulltime and he told me that for six
>month he had had hardly any time to ride, because he had been too busy launching a new mountainbike
>"Cottur". But he hoped to make it up next year :-)
Holy crap. I see he runs a bicycle- and motorcycle shop in Trieste (my guess is the snowboard biz
is done by younger employees...), and is the president (or "responsabile" anyway) of the veteran
cycle club.
"benjo maso" <benjo.maso@chello.nl> wrote in message
news:<bghose$os0ca$1@ID-75468.news.uni-berlin.de>...
>
> I've read it in newspapers from that period. Robic's gearing might seem a little bit strange, but
> he had a opinion of his own on everything and he was convinced that the fewer teeth(?) (dents) he
> used, the better. So in his opinion 40 x 20 was better than 48 x 24.
Well, Robic's opinion about teeth also carried over to real teeth. I saw a documentary where they
showed him in about 1970, and he didn't have too many of his own left. It was extremely depressing,
he would go from one cafe to another and talk about the old days, drinking a lot at each stop, my
wife conjectures Calvados. Speaking of which, one of her colleagues is a great niece (Robic =
brother of her grandmother) and she recalls that he was not too pleasant, that his house was like a
shrine filled with his trophies and when he died, his family didn't know what to do with all those
trophies. Not too nice a description, I'm afraid.
Speaking of documentary evidence, during the France TV coverage this year, they managed to find a
woman who was born in July 1903, and they asked her about her impressions of the Tour. She said that
she liked Robic, who was not very good looking, but very nice and a good racer. She really liked
Bobet, because he won at least five tours, you know (there was written on the bottom of the screen
"Eh, actually just three"), and Jalabert also, he won the tour last year (on screen "Well, almost").
It ends with the guy asking her: "Do you know Lance Armstrong?" To which she replies: "Yes, I think
so. He's a black man. He's black, isn't he?" Apparently, she was thinking of Louis Armstrong.
-ilan
"Ilan Vardi" <ilan@tonyaharding.org> wrote in message
news:6c8faec2.0308030414.1106c8b2@posting.google.com...
> "benjo maso" <benjo.maso@chello.nl> wrote in message
news:<bghose$os0ca$1@ID-75468.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> >
> > I've read it in newspapers from that period. Robic's gearing might seem
a
> > little bit strange, but he had a opinion of his own on everything and he
was
> > convinced that the fewer teeth(?) (dents) he used, the better. So in his opinion 40 x 20 was
> > better than 48 x 24.
>
> Well, Robic's opinion about teeth also carried over to real teeth. I saw a documentary where they
> showed him in about 1970, and he didn't have too many of his own left. It was extremely
> depressing, he would go from one cafe to another and talk about the old days, drinking a lot at
> each stop, my wife conjectures Calvados. Speaking of which, one of her colleagues is a great niece
> (Robic = brother of her grandmother) and she recalls that he was not too pleasant, that his house
> was like a shrine filled with his trophies and when he died, his family didn't know what to do
> with all
those
> trophies. Not too nice a description, I'm afraid.
Robic was probably the saddest example of what's being an ex-champion, even sadder than Koblet or
Ocana. He had no education and the only thing he was good at was cycling. The last years of career
(which he finished at forty) he was only a pale shadow of the rider he had been and lived from the
starting fee's in second and third rate races in the French province. As you said already, there was
only on subject he could talk about: the races he had won and should have won (and in his opinion
with a littke bit of luck he would have won al least five Tours). The restaurant he owned in
Montparnasse went bakrupt and his wife left him. he earned his living with all kind of jobs, like
sitting on a bike in the publicity caravan in the Tour of being referee in cathc-as-catch can
matches. And because he was very small (1.61 in 1947 and 1.59 in 1959) one of the usual acts was
that he was tossed trough the ring. It was considered to be funny. The bright side was - according
to his best friend was that he always remained optimistic and never seemed depressed or bitter.
Benjo Maso
"benjo maso" <benjo.maso@chello.nl> wrote in message
news:<bghose$os0ca$1@ID-75468.news.uni-berlin.de>...
>
>
> Coppi and Bobet were very good friends fort some time (until Bobet became worldchampion and Coppi
> began him to see as a real threat). Bobet even went some times to visit Coppi in Italy to learn
> the tricks of the trade, but they were never in the same team.
OK, thanks for this clarification and the rest of your messages. Maybe you should come down and ride
in Vincennes sometime to check out the living legends.
-ilan
"benjo maso" <benjo.maso@chello.nl> wrote in message
news:<bgenbq$nujji$1@ID-75468.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> >
> > Apparently, there was one guy in the peloton who used to be one of Coppi's teammates, and is 88
> > years old, so I'll try to track him down and talk to him.
>
>
> Was he French or Italian?
I talked to the veteran cyclist (Jojo) again today. The person who rode with Coppi was Italian, and
his name is Paul Ruggiani. The person who won the gold medal at the 36 Olympics is Robert Orgebre.
Those names and spellings are only approximations, as I had problems understanding what this guy was
telling me.
-ilan
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