9 speed to 10 speed upgrade

[tiddy]

A little help needed - I want to upgrade a 9 speed to 10 speed Campagnolo Centaur / Veloce - I have heard that the 9 speed gear levers may work with all the other 10 speed bits and piece - does anyone know if this is true?

:rolleyes:

[alfeng]

A little help needed - I want to upgrade a 9 speed to 10 speed Campagnolo Centaur / Veloce - I have heard that the 9 speed gear levers may work with all the other 10 speed bits and piece - does anyone know if this is true?

:rolleyes:Yes, for the most part ...

Other than the shifter's index wheel, only the cassette (of course) + the chain & front derailleur are specific; and, not so much with the front derailleur.

You can certainly use YOUR current 9-speed front derailleur with a 10-speed drivetrain. I use Shimano Ultegra front derailleurs because it is what I had when I adopted Campagnolo ERGO shifters ... and, they worked. Some say Shimano front derailleurs work better than Campagnolo ... if so, I can only suppose that the swing arm is slightly less prone to flexing ...

The SRAM 89R chain is a popular substitute for the Campagnolo 10-speed chain.

There are SOME rear wheels where your existing rear derailleur may not work as-is due to conflicts with the inner pulley wheel cage & the spokes! So, some caution should be used when you are initially testing for clearance.

[Eastway82]

A little help needed - I want to upgrade a 9 speed to 10 speed Campagnolo Centaur / Veloce - I have heard that the 9 speed gear levers may work with all the other 10 speed bits and piece - does anyone know if this is true?

:rolleyes:

A campag 10spd cassette is squeezed into the same space as a 9spd, so the indexing is different. If you try and use your 9spd levers, the front will work fine, but the back won't index correctly. And even if it did, it would still only use 9 out of 10 sprockets, so there'd be no point. So to go 10spd you'll need a cassette (which will fit your existing wheels no problem), a suitable chain and a right hand shifter (available separately) OR the appropriate parts to rebuild your existing shifter as 10spd (only possible on post 2002 levers I think). Campagnolo say there's a difference in parallelogram geometry between 9spd and 10spd rear mechs and that a 9spd mech won't work in a 10spd system (quote: "absolutely not - there are major problems"). Don't know - haven't tried it personally - might work fine.
They also say you have to change the chainset or have it modified but plenty of people don't bother and have no problems. Your FD will work fine - again, Campag say pre-2001 FDs need modification, but they'll still work without.

So: minimum to upgrade to 10spd is cassette/chain/RH ergo. Then you may still need to change the rear der. Or you could spend the money on wheels and tyres instead and feel a real difference.. :-)

[alfeng]

A campag 10spd cassette is squeezed into the same space as a 9spd, so the indexing is different. If you try and use your 9spd levers, the front will work fine, but the back won't index correctly. And even if it did, it would still only use 9 out of 10 sprockets, so there'd be no point. So to go 10spd you'll need a cassette (which will fit your existing wheels no problem), a suitable chain and a right hand shifter (available separately) OR the appropriate parts to rebuild your existing shifter as 10spd (only possible on post 2002 levers I think). Campagnolo say there's a difference in parallelogram geometry between 9spd and 10spd rear mechs and that a 9spd mech won't work in a 10spd system (quote: "absolutely not - there are major problems"). Don't know - haven't tried it personally - might work fine.
They also say you have to change the chainset or have it modified but plenty of people don't bother and have no problems. Your FD will work fine - again, Campag say pre-2001 FDs need modification, but they'll still work without.

So: minimum to upgrade to 10spd is cassette/chain/RH ergo. Then you may still need to change the rear der. Or you could spend the money on wheels and tyres instead and feel a real difference.. :-)HMMmmm. Well, you may be right (based on what Campagnolo's "reps" say), but I was basing MY observation on mating a 10-speed Centaur ERGO shifter with a circa-2000 9-speed/(old style) Chorus rear derailleur and a 12-23 10-speed Record cassette ... mix-and-match to the nth degree!

The indexing was fine ... at least, in my mind -- the pulley wheels aligned with the cogs on the cassette with each shift when the bike was in a workstand -- but, as noted, the inner cage was the (potential) "rub" (so to speak!) ... the inner cage could have been readily modified using a FLAT FILE to remove the excess material at the leading/top edge of the cage ... at least, in my mind!

Your results may vary ...

NB. OY! I'm currently using my 10-speed ERGO shifters with Shimano rear derailleurs ... 9-speed drivetrains! So, ...

OBVIOUSLY (!?!), I don't trust either Campagnolo's or Shimano's "marketing" department ... or, whoever it is in their respective corporations which provides customer information.

So, try your current rear derailleur before springing for a new one ... maybe it will work ... and, maybe it won't.

BTW. My apologies if I was vague about the need for a 10-speed shifter OR a replacement 10-speed indexing cog for the shifter ...

[Eastway82]

HMMmmm. Well, you may be right (based on what Campagnolo's "reps" say), but I was basing MY observation on mating a 10-speed Centaur ERGO shifter with a circa-2000 9-speed/(old style) Chorus rear derailleur and a 12-23 10-speed Record cassette ... mix-and-match to the nth degree!

The indexing was fine ... at least, in my mind -- the pulley wheels aligned with the cogs on the cassette with each shift when the bike was in a workstand -- but, as noted, the inner cage was the (potential) "rub" (so to speak!) ... the inner cage could have been readily modified using a FLAT FILE to remove the excess material at the leading/top edge of the cage ... at least, in my mind!

Your results may vary ...

NB. OY! I'm currently using my 10-speed ERGO shifters with Shimano rear derailleurs ... 9-speed drivetrains! So, ...

OBVIOUSLY (!?!), I don't trust either Campagnolo's or Shimano's "marketing" department ... or, whoever it is in their respective corporations which provides customer information.

So, try your current rear derailleur before springing for a new one ... maybe it will work ... and, maybe it won't.

BTW. My apologies if I was vague about the need for a 10-speed shifter OR a replacement 10-speed indexing cog for the shifter ...

Yeah, I don't think we're disagreeing :-)
If your 10sp setup worked with a 9sp rear der then probably so will the original poster's - although I think pre-2000 campag 9spd ders had a different pull ratio to later ones, so maybe that has an effect on compatibility too. Like you, I'd say try it and see before springing for a new one.
It's obviously in Campag's (and Shimano's) interests to tell people they need to change everything at once, although to be fair Campag are usually fairly good at pointing out where things can be got round (ie changing index cogs to mix and match or upgrade).

[PeterF]

A little help needed - I want to upgrade a 9 speed to 10 speed Campagnolo Centaur / Veloce - I have heard that the 9 speed gear levers may work with all the other 10 speed bits and piece - does anyone know if this is true?

:rolleyes: FWIW, the only upgrade that I have done was going from Shimano 105 downtube 8 speed to 9 speed STI. I purchased an upgrade kit (shifters, rear derailleur, cassette and chain) and with the kit the manufacturer recommended chainging the iner chain ring of my crankset as well. I had moved from the flat riding of the city to the hilly 'burbs, so I was looking to hange my 42t inner ring for a 39t anyway, but I'm guessing that the narrower chain might get stuck between the rings. I tend to think that the change from 9-10 would be a little more subtle (if I learned anything in High School math). I'm not so sure with Campy because all of my campy stuff (two bikes) is 10 speed. Just an opinion (not that you asked, and I generally hate when people dispense advice but don't answer the question at hand), 9 speed campy is very available, cassettes, chains replacement parts, so I wouldn't be concerned with obsolescence. Also I have noticed that even though Campy stuff is rebuildable, the parts are pretty price. So what does it really cost to turn a 9 speed into a 10 speed versus just buying a Centaur 10 10 speed upgrade kit?

[tiddy]

Thanks to everyone for taking the trouble and time to reply to my query - the reason why I may upgrade is that I bought new wheels ( Eurus 2006 clinchers) for my new 10 speed bike ( Tifosi CK5 ) but I also have a lighter Trek 5500 ( built with Campagnolo 9 speed parts ; tought that would aid wheel swopping etc if all systems were 10 speed compatible.

Actually may not upgrade as the Shemals on the Trek appear to be lighter or as light as the Eurus but I haven't weighed them yet - thanks again for all the replies.

[Eastway82]

Thanks to everyone for taking the trouble and time to reply to my query - the reason why I may upgrade is that I bought new wheels ( Eurus 2006 clinchers) for my new 10 speed bike ( Tifosi CK5 ) but I also have a lighter Trek 5500 ( built with Campagnolo 9 speed parts ; tought that would aid wheel swopping etc if all systems were 10 speed compatible.

Actually may not upgrade as the Shemals on the Trek appear to be lighter or as light as the Eurus but I haven't weighed them yet - thanks again for all the replies.

Fair comment that it would aid wheel swapping to have both bikes the same - I've got one 9spd (plus wife's two 9spd) and one 10spd too, and it's a bit of a pain if I want to swap wheels between the two (or like last weekend when I needed a spare 10spd rear to stick in the support car for a race (see: www.duonormand.com and enter next year if you can get to France - see you there!) and had to change cassettes on one of the 9spd wheels. Cured that now by buying a rear FSA RD200 and 10spd campag cassette from French Ebay for 46 euros the lot!