10-spd chain w/ 9-spd cassette?
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Does anyone have experience using a Shimano DA CN-7801 10-speed chain with a 9-speed DA cassette (instead of the 9-speed DA CN-7701 chain)?
Here are the supposed benefits of the 7801 chain:
"The new 10-speed Dura-Ace chain is lighter by an astonishing 24g, yet maintains the same durability as the 9-speed predecessor. The chain also adds a new fluid-smooth feel to the performance of the overall system. The rollers are the same width as 9-speed, insuring the important strength and durability. Weight reduction and the narrower 10-speed profile were achieved by minimizing the contour of the side plates. The super-flush surface of the new plates glides more smoothly across the entire cogset, netting a lighter, smoother, and yet remarkably more durable drive train. 280 grams • Super Narrow For 10 Speeds • Lighter Than CN-7701."
Hey, look....the words like "astonishing", "fluid-smooth" and "super-flush" are some Shimano marketing guy's, not mine.
I'm just about to buy a new chain, and am just looking for a little info before I open my wallet. Given that the rollers are the same width as the 9-speed, it seems like it should work OK, yes? Not a lot of difference in cost. 24g lighter. But perhaps more prone to breakage? Any other issues? (I'd plan to use a Connex connector link with either chain.)
Would the same be true of Wipperman's 9 vs. 10-speed chains? Are the Connex 10-speed chain rollers the same width as those on their 9-speed chains? Any other reason a Connex 10-speed chain wouldn't function with a 9-speed cogset?
And yes, I did search the forums before posting this question. If I missed the thread which discusses chains ad infinitum, I'm sorry and respectfully ask that you provide a link to said thread. Thanks in advance. ~ OldGoat
10 speed chain is thinner and will wear faster. Remember, light stuff is more prone to wear and breakage. Not sure what you are trying to gain with that setup. Lighter? People who buy stuff because of weight savings give me endless hours of comedic relief. A few grams here and there have ZERO impact on 99.99% of people who ride bikes. Also, the 10 speed chain is considerably more expensive than the 9 speed version. Teethwise, you could pull it off, but again .. why?
I've seen mention on here before that 10 S chains [not according to shimano though] will work fine on 9 S chain rings. Cassette wise I'm not sure. 9 S are 6.6 mm wide, 10 S around 6 to 6.2 mm.....not much difference, but why bother? I'd use the 9 for slightly better durability.
Does anyone have experience using a Shimano DA CN-7801 10-speed chain with a 9-speed DA cassette (instead of the 9-speed DA CN-7701 chain)?
Here are the supposed benefits of the 7801 chain:
"The new 10-speed Dura-Ace chain is lighter by an astonishing 24g, yet maintains the same durability as the 9-speed predecessor. The chain also adds a new fluid-smooth feel to the performance of the overall system. The rollers are the same width as 9-speed, insuring the important strength and durability. Weight reduction and the narrower 10-speed profile were achieved by minimizing the contour of the side plates. The super-flush surface of the new plates glides more smoothly across the entire cogset, netting a lighter, smoother, and yet remarkably more durable drive train. 280 grams • Super Narrow For 10 Speeds • Lighter Than CN-7701."
Hey, look....the words like "astonishing", "fluid-smooth" and "super-flush" are some Shimano marketing guy's, not mine.
I'm just about to buy a new chain, and am just looking for a little info before I open my wallet. Given that the rollers are the same width as the 9-speed, it seems like it should work OK, yes? Not a lot of difference in cost. 24g lighter. But perhaps more prone to breakage? Any other issues? (I'd plan to use a Connex connector link with either chain.)
Would the same be true of Wipperman's 9 vs. 10-speed chains? Are the Connex 10-speed chain rollers the same width as those on their 9-speed chains? Any other reason a Connex 10-speed chain wouldn't function with a 9-speed cogset?
And yes, I did search the forums before posting this question. If I missed the thread which discusses chains ad infinitum, I'm sorry and respectfully ask that you provide a link to said thread. Thanks in advance. ~ OldGoatOthers may tell you differently, but it has been my observation that the success of using a narrower chain than spec'd when using Shimano indexing depends on the front derailleur's cage ...
With a TRIPLE crank, it is my observation that the chain must match the front derailleur when using a Shimano indexed shifter ...
With a DOUBLE crank, it is only slightly less important ... I have mated a 9-speed Shimano chain with an 8-speed XT front derailleur [with 9-speed 105 shifters + 9-speed cassette] because (and, only because) I was able to employ an "extra" index click to move the chain over sufficiently between the stops.
I have read someone state that the 9-speed & 10-speed front derailleurs are interchangeable ... I [i]still haven't taken the time to measure the similarity/difference, yet.
If your drivetrain is functioning properly, now, when using a 9-speed Shimano/-equivalent chain then I think you will probably be unhappy with the way the chain shifts between the chainrings if you change to a 10-speed Shimano chain without changing the front derailleur, too.
I would use a 9s chain in a 9s drivetrain. There is no advantage to the 10s and only potential headaches as 10s are less durable and don't shift as well in the front with 9s FD (see alfengs comment). I doubt if 24 gm affects how well the Old Goat climbs hills.
If you like the idea of a connecting link chain, I suggest the SRAM 9s chains--work very well in shimano or campy 9s drivetrains and are a good value.
Others may tell you differently, but it has been my observation that the success of using a narrower chain than spec'd when using Shimano indexing depends on the front derailleur's cage ...
With a TRIPLE crank, it is my observation that the chain must match the front derailleur when using a Shimano indexed shifter ...
With a DOUBLE crank, it is only slightly less important ... I have mated a 9-speed Shimano chain with an 8-speed XT front derailleur [with 9-speed 105 shifters + 9-speed cassette] because (and, only because) I was able to employ an "extra" index click to move the chain over sufficiently between the stops.
I have read someone state that the 9-speed & 10-speed front derailleurs are interchangeable ... I [i]still haven't taken the time to measure the similarity/difference, yet.
If your drivetrain is functioning properly, now, when using a 9-speed Shimano/-equivalent chain then I think you will probably be unhappy with the way the chain shifts between the chainrings if you change to a 10-speed Shimano chain without changing the front derailleur, too.Thanks to you (and other respondents) for your thought-provoking responses. Upon reflection, the question "why go there if I don't have to?" doesn't seem to have an adequate answer, so I'll be looking for a 9-speed chain at a bargain price. Am inclined to try a Wippermann, but may not be able to justify higher price, especially since DA9 chains seem to be on sale/[closeout?] most everywhere. I would, however, like to hear your explanation re the need for triple cranks/front derailleurs and chains to match one another, if you have the time...just out of curiosity, nothing more. Thanks! ~ OldGoat
With a TRIPLE crank, it is my observation that the chain must match the front derailleur when using a Shimano indexed shifter ... [I won't bore you/everyone with an explanation as to why this is unless someone actually cares]
I'm using a 9spd chain with a Deore DX FD and crankset (7spd), and a Shimano indexed front shifter, and have had no problems with front shifting.
"so I'll be looking for a 9-speed chain at a bargain price" Check out SRAM, nice feature is the quick disconnect master link.
A 10 speed chain is thinner thus the need for a compatible FD to account for this whilest moving amongst the chainrings. Sure, it's minimal and a finely tuned 9-speed FD would probably work as well.
I would, however, like to hear your explanation re the need for triple cranks/front derailleurs and chains to match one another, if you have the time...just out of curiosity, nothing more. Thanks! ~ OldGoatThis will be an abbreviated explanation, so I hope it makes sense:
Imagine the chain on the middle ring ...
With the wider 9-speed chain, the front derailleur will push the chain X-distance to the right-or-left to move it onto the larger or granny ring ...
With the narrower 10-speed chain, the derailleur will try to move the chain X-distance, but in fact it won't engage as soon AND even if it did, the narrower chain will fall slightly short of full engagement ... the result is insufficient engagement ... the pins & ramps help, but it may be more than one 360º rotation of the crank before the chain engages, if ever!
If you adjust the front derailleur for either the granny or the large chainring, where the neutral position on the middle ring is a bit scooched (yeah, how's that for a technical term?) over to one side or the other, then that means it (i.e., the chain) will be even further from engaging when going the other way, thus ensuring that shifting onto the third ring will be unsatisfactory if not completely incomplete.
Hopefully, that was brief enough to not be too boring an explanation ...
BTW. When you read/hear about people saying this-or-that brand of chainring works poorly, I think that they are actually & undoubtedly talking about a mismatched chain ...
FWIW. Because I had a slew of 8-speed chainrings, I decided to see how they would function with my Campagnolo shifters ... well, the shifting is BETTER with the unpinned & barely ramped chainrings & Campagnolo shifters than ramped-and-pinned Shimano chainrings with Shimano shifters! Your results, of course, may vary ...
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