Polar CS600 Power - First on the Block...

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interesting side note to the problems with the power units - I seem to be only having drop outs when using rechargable batteries. use normal disposables and everything is fine

I've become one of those saddo's who answers his own posts, but I need to pass this on:

I've just heard back from Polar UK who have consulted with Finland and can now confirm that there are (signal transmission?) issues known to cause drop-outs in power/cadence in some of the early production run (as stated elswehere on this board...couple of posts back on page 10 and if I was clever enough I'd link to them!!)


Post in Wattage:

All units that are manufactured week 15 or earlier this year may need to be upgraded. It was a real quick upgrade for me since I live 10 minutes away. This can be seen on the serial number. It will start with something like
C706L...........
The seven stands for 2007 and 06 for week 6. So all serials starting with C715 or lower may need the upgrade,
The previous posts suggested that a 'fix' was applied from week 15 or so of production but I've personally encountered the problem in units produced in weeks 17 and 20. Polar are replacing my current (week 20) unit with one from a recent batch where the fix is known to have been applied.

They reckon we're chasing a 'red herring' with the battery power supply theories...

My replacement will come with a new battery case etc, so I'll compare the 'feel' with the old one and see if they're the same.

So, for the amusemement of fellow readers, I'll install this new unit over the weekend and keep you posted!

McP

I've become one of those saddo's who answers his own posts, but I need to pass this on:

I've just heard back from Polar UK who have consulted with Finland and can now confirm that there are (signal transmission?) issues known to cause drop-outs in power/cadence in some of the early production run (as stated elswehere on this board...couple of posts back on page 10 and if I was clever enough I'd link to them!!)

The previous posts suggested that a 'fix' was applied from week 15 or so of production but I've personally encountered the problem in units produced in weeks 17 and 20. Polar are replacing my current (week 20) unit with one from a recent batch where the fix is known to have been applied.

They reckon we're chasing a 'red herring' with the battery power supply theories...

My replacement will come with a new battery case etc, so I'll compare the 'feel' with the old one and see if they're the same.

So, for the amusemement of fellow readers, I'll install this new unit over the weekend and keep you posted!

McP
Where is the SN located? On the power paddle itself?

Let us know if you have drop outs with or without swapping the battery unit.

Do you have a particular contact with Polar that you could share with us? When I have called and emailed them, they seemed to not own up to any issues.

Thanks

Where is the SN located? On the power paddle itself?

Let us know if you have drop outs with or without swapping the battery unit.

Do you have a particular contact with Polar that you could share with us? When I have called and emailed them, they seemed to not own up to any issues.

ThanksThe serial numbers are printed on the underside of the power paddle (i.e the face that sits on your chainstay or on the rubber spacers).

I was intending to start by keeping the existing battery unit on. I'll let you know what happens. Trouble is, both power units I've had so far have done a couple of weeks flawlessly before they've started failing, so let's not get too excited too early!!

Polar UK's customer support helpline has been generally very sympathetic and got stuff done, but recently it's been hard to get through (perhaps its annual leave time?), so I've resolved this latest issue by emailing their MD...very helpfully they give full staff and contact details here (http://www.polar.fi/uk/staff.html). http://cyclingforums.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

I genuinely believe Polar are trying to solve this. They got egg on their faces over the s72X power system and they've currently got endorsements for the CS600 on their website from riders including Valverde...so it sort of needs to work.

McP

I have been using the cs600 for about 5 weeks now and have also had dropouts with power and cadence. Initially this was a constant problem. After I e-mailed Polar USA, they suggested I check the settings on the unit (such as the obvious do I have the power and cadence options turned to ON, which of course I did), but also they said:

"You may also try resetting the Power unit. Unplug the cable from the power
sensor, wait for about a minute and then plug it back in. Seek sensors
again."

Now I have tried this, including also re-training (seeking) both power and cadence sensors via the settings/bike
options after plugging the cable back in (being sure to wait about one minute), and to my suprise have had the unit work well after this for multiple days in a row
without any drop-outs. Now this hasn't been a perfect fix since I have had to do this procedure a couple of times since then, but it does work much better
overall after I do this.

I really do not think that poor battery case design or loose springs has much of anything to do with the dropout problem
as some have suggested. It may be that when you open up the battery case and play around with the batteries,
put tape on them, etc., you are simply resetting the power unit which somehow fixes the problem for a while.

One other bug I have found with the cs600 is that after I download data from the unit via the infrared port to my computer, it usually resets
the unit clock to timezone 2, and I have to manually set it back to 1. Does this happen to anybody else?

Good luck.

I have been using the cs600 for about 5 weeks now and have also had dropouts with power and cadence. Initially this was a constant problem. After I e-mailed Polar USA, they suggested I check the settings on the unit (such as the obvious do I have the power and cadence options turned to ON, which of course I did), but also they said:

"You may also try resetting the Power unit. Unplug the cable from the power
sensor, wait for about a minute and then plug it back in. Seek sensors
again."

Now I have tried this, including also re-training (seeking) both power and cadence sensors via the settings/bike
options after plugging the cable back in (being sure to wait about one minute), and to my suprise have had the unit work well after this for multiple days in a row
without any drop-outs. Now this hasn't been a perfect fix since I have had to do this procedure a couple of times since then, but it does work much better
overall after I do this.

I really do not think that poor battery case design or loose springs has much of anything to do with the dropout problem
as some have suggested. It may be that when you open up the battery case and play around with the batteries,
put tape on them, etc., you are simply resetting the power unit which somehow fixes the problem for a while.

One other bug I have found with the cs600 is that after I download data from the unit via the infrared port to my computer, it usually resets
the unit clock to timezone 2, and I have to manually set it back to 1. Does this happen to anybody else?

Good luck.
I will try to this process the next time I start getting drop outs. At the very least, disconnecting the cable coming form the paddle to the battery unit, and plugging it back should be a quick indicator if the root issue is related to something within the battery sleeve or not. Thanks for the info.

What I don't understand is, if this is a known issue, why doesn't Polar own up to it when I contact them?

One other bug I have found with the cs600 is that after I download data from the unit via the infrared port to my computer, it usually resets
the unit clock to timezone 2, and I have to manually set it back to 1. Does this happen to anybody else?

Good luck.
I like the re-setting idea (although see my joke on p11!!) as I too have found that taking out and reinstating the lead from the battery unit to the paddle usually restarts the unit...although it often fails again after minutes, not days. That said, I've not re-searched (or re-taught or whatever) the computer to find the sensor.

What do we think is being re-set...firmware of some sort? (are you watching, Kempele??http://cyclingforums.com/images/smilies/cool.gif )

I don't know the answer to your timezone puzzle, I've tried to replicate it on my system and I can't...I'm set to TZ1 and whether I transfer data via the 'transfer data' icon or 'edit polar product settings' via the toolbar icon or the Tools menu I stay with TZ1.

Heigh-ho. Those fun-loving Finns seem to enjoy setting these amusing little puzzles for those of us mad enough to pay £££s for their kit, so we might as well get our money's worth of entertainment.

Don't forget to ride the bike http://cyclingforums.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

McP

The previous posts suggested that a 'fix' was applied from week 15 or so of production but I've personally encountered the problem in units produced in weeks 17 and 20. Polar are replacing my current (week 20) unit with one from a recent batch where the fix is known to have been applied.

So, for the amusemement of fellow readers, I'll install this new unit over the weekend and keep you posted!

McPTwo things to report:

My replacement unit is from the same batch (week 20, if our reading of the serial numbers is to be believed) as my last faulty one. On the phone, Polar UK's support team told me that the known issue had been fixed in the unit they were sending me. For clarification, I've emailed them asking for a clear explanation of what the known issue is, and whether they are claiming to have 'retro-fitted' the fix to this particular 'week 20' unit as my last 'week 20' unit didn't work.

If I get a response, I'll pass it on.

As ever, this one works fine straight out of the box...I've patched it in using the existing battery unit, which might suggest our battery theories were brilliant but wrong - but previous units have both had a couple of weeks of flawless operation before losing the plot...so judgement is reserved.

As is the right to be so stressed out by this that only a De Rosa King with fully Campy Record by way of compensation from Polar would see me recover!

McP

One other bug I have found with the cs600 is that after I download data from the unit via the infrared port to my computer, it usually resets
the unit clock to timezone 2, and I have to manually set it back to 1. Does this happen to anybody else?

Good luck.
I've had another thought on this, but it's a longshot...assuming you're using Polar's ProTrainer 5 software that came with your CS600, it might be worth checking you've got the latest version.

With ProTrainer running, there's an update option in the 'Help' drop-down menu. Click on this and follow the onscreen instructions to download the newest version of the software.

McP

I will try to this process the next time I start getting drop outs. At the very least, disconnecting the cable coming form the paddle to the battery unit, and plugging it back should be a quick indicator if the root issue is related to something within the battery sleeve or not. Thanks for the info.

What I don't understand is, if this is a known issue, why doesn't Polar own up to it when I contact them? Well...here's an update...

Today I had checked the pins before of the battery sleeve before I started my 70 mile ride and things look good.

After about 20 miles...the drop outs started...in and out every 10 minutes or so.

Then we stopped to get some water...and I pulled the cables out of the paddle for a few minutes....pushed them back in and finished the ride. The power didn't drop out one single time for the rest of the ride.

So...it is looking like, although it is related to power getting to the paddle...it may not be the battery sleeve afterall.

I guess it is time to ask for a new unit.

Okay. I've been busy with work and travel and finally got the chance to install the warranty replacement Polar sent me for the power unit. I plugged it in and do not get any readings on the power or cadence indicator lights when I turn the crank. I also get no readings on the CS600. Tried to learn the new power unit to the CS600 and it did not find it. With a voltmeter I once again verified that power was present at the input to the unit.

I am now thinking maybe it has something to do with the speed sensor. Question..if the speed sensor is not working will the cadence sensor light or power lights still operate? Maybe I have a short in the speed sensor.

Judging by the response I got from Polar tech support the dropouts are certainly a known issue. Without too much hesitation I was told to send the power unit in for warranty service. It should arrive at Polar Friday. Judging by the remarks here I am guessing it will take them a week or so to turn it around.

After seeing all these problems with the CS600 power unit I'm glad to stick with the old wired unit. Not gonna upgrade to this unreliable wireless shit. I just wish they came up with a new watch that does 1 sec recording with their old unit!

After seeing all these problems with the CS600 power unit I'm glad to stick with the old wired unit. Not gonna upgrade to this unreliable wireless shit. I just wish they came up with a new watch that does 1 sec recording with their old unit!
We all know there is no perfect unit in the world and for the price, this is a pretty nice unit. I guess I am fortunate that I have not these noted problems and I think it is a pretty darn good unit, so mine is smelling more like the morning air on an early morning bike ride in the mountains

After seeing all these problems with the CS600 power unit I'm glad to stick with the old wired unit. Not gonna upgrade to this unreliable wireless shit. I just wish they came up with a new watch that does 1 sec recording with their old unit!In some people's opinion and experience (mine included) the s720i wired unit was very unreliable. Polar exchanged mine 4 times in 12 months. In particular the wired design left it vulnerable to water ingress (IMHO) at many more points than the new unit, and there were obviously more physical connectors where failure was a possibility.

In principal the new CS600 unit has addressed a lot of those engineering issues - fewer holes, more robust connectors etc -and when it works it provides both accurate and consistent (i.e replicable) data and interfaces well with 3rd party training management software such as Cycling Peaks. It's a real step forward.

If Polar have indeed fixed the allegedly-buggy transmission (the Jury's still out after three flawless days with my new (3rd!!) unit and I'm still hoping Polar will give us a straight answer as to the issue and how they've addressed it) then they've got a system which £ for £ is as good as anything else on the market, if not better.

There. If I can't get my De Rosa by threats, I'll use flattery :p

McP

In some people's opinion and experience (mine included) the s720i wired unit was very unreliable. Polar exchanged mine 4 times in 12 months. In particular the wired design left it vulnerable to water ingress (IMHO) at many more points than the new unit, and there were obviously more physical connectors where failure was a possibility.

In principal the new CS600 unit has addressed a lot of those engineering issues - fewer holes, more robust connectors etc -and when it works it provides both accurate and consistent (i.e replicable) data and interfaces well with 3rd party training management software such as Cycling Peaks. It's a real step forward.

If Polar have indeed fixed the allegedly-buggy transmission (the Jury's still out after three flawless days with my new (3rd!!) unit and I'm still hoping Polar will give us a straight answer as to the issue and how they've addressed it) then they've got a system which £ for £ is as good as anything else on the market, if not better.

There. If I can't get my De Rosa by threats, I'll use flattery :p

McPIf I had to use the wired version, I would have opted to use PT...there is no way I was going deal with that wire going to from the chainstay to the handlebars!

Not to mention the much improved dismount capability of the computer itself from the handlebar mount! It is so much easier to disconnect this thing and downlaod your info and re-install.

Eventually, I think Polar will correct these issues....they need our feedback though...

I've become one of those saddo's who answers his own posts, but I need to pass this on:

I've just heard back from Polar UK who have consulted with Finland and can now confirm that there are (signal transmission?) issues known to cause drop-outs in power/cadence in some of the early production run (as stated elswehere on this board...couple of posts back on page 10 and if I was clever enough I'd link to them!!)

The previous posts suggested that a 'fix' was applied from week 15 or so of production but I've personally encountered the problem in units produced in weeks 17 and 20. Polar are replacing my current (week 20) unit with one from a recent batch where the fix is known to have been applied.


The person I spoke to here in the U.S. about this said that it was the first 500 units, and those were only distributed in Europe (I posted this to this thread quite awhile back).

To re-cap, I'm currently on my certified-to-be-working replacement power sensor. When it started having dropouts, I then replaced the battery compartment/wire assembly. I've been on that setup now for about 350 miles with no dropouts until my last ride. Last time this happened (before the battery case replacement), wiggling the connectors at the power sensor seemed to immediately return the signal, though not for too long, as many of you have experienced.

For whatever reason, the thing has been working perfectly for nearly a month now, and I've been getting some great power training in. I haven't wiggled anything as a result of the dropouts of my last ride, and I think I'm going to simply change the batteries even though I'm pretty sure they'll test good. I'm thinking that there's at least a possibility that slight voltage drops could be related. We'll see...

Good luck to all figuring this out, unfortunately this isn't the only Version 1 product I'm currently troubleshooting significant issues with... :(

I guess I'll join McP in answering my own posts. An inner ear infection has left me temporarily off the bike and at the work bench trying to solve the problem below. I concentrated on the battery holder.

I think the fact that I got a reading on the voltmeter lead me in the wrong direction. In fact I did get a reading but after the new power unit wasn't working it got me to thinking about current. An investigation of that flimsy battery sleeve led me to the thin wire on the negative lead that connects to the flat metal conductor. It appeared to be poorly connected. I took out the soldering iron and soldered a new connection between the thin wire and the flat conductor. It worked! Let's see how long it lasts.

I vote on reviving the poor battery holder theory:D


Okay. I've been busy with work and travel and finally got the chance to install the warranty replacement Polar sent me for the power unit. I plugged it in and do not get any readings on the power or cadence indicator lights when I turn the crank. I also get no readings on the CS600. Tried to learn the new power unit to the CS600 and it did not find it. With a voltmeter I once again verified that power was present at the input to the unit.

I am now thinking maybe it has something to do with the speed sensor. Question..if the speed sensor is not working will the cadence sensor light or power lights still operate? Maybe I have a short in the speed sensor.

I have the same problem with the poweroutput set. After 2 hours of riding the reading from cadance and power go to 0.
I tried the resetting by disconnecting the battery but that didn't help for longer then an hour.
I noticed that if the reading went to zero and I reversed pedaled the cadance came back alive. When after that I returned to normal pedaling again the power would work as well (not for long but anyway).
So it made me think that there is something wrong with the sensor that picks up the cadance. I think it gets stuck or something.
To test this I installed a weaker magnet this evening and see how this will help (or not).

I'll be back with the results (can be after 4 weeks as I'm leaving for holidays this week).


Jeroen

I have the same problem with the poweroutput set. After 2 hours of riding the reading from cadance and power go to 0.
I tried the resetting by disconnecting the battery but that didn't help for longer then an hour.
I noticed that if the reading went to zero and I reversed pedaled the cadance came back alive. When after that I returned to normal pedaling again the power would work as well (not for long but anyway).
So it made me think that there is something wrong with the sensor that picks up the cadance. I think it gets stuck or something.
To test this I installed a weaker magnet this evening and see how this will help (or not).

I'll be back with the results (can be after 4 weeks as I'm leaving for holidays this week).


JeroenWeaker magnet? Why?

Well...disconnecting and reconnecting the cables failed me today on a 100 miler... :mad:

Back to the battery case and sleeve...

I do have some rare earth magnets (the 1/8 inch one was too strong!) so I guess I could install it to rule that out as well.

Weaker magnet? Why?
I'm thinking that too strong a magnet may be the cause of the sensor getting stuck. A weaker magnet may do the trick (just trying).
It also has the benefit that it won't get my chain sucked of the chainrings when in biggest gear.:eek: