Creaking Noise (grrrr!)
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WHAT I BOUGHT:
2005 Kestrel Evoke frame, SRAM Force Cranks & Chainrings, Look KEO Carbon Ti Pedals, Oval Concepts 32.4 Seatpost, Kestrel carbon EMS Pro handlebar (it's the gray, not yellow one).
Frame mileage estimated: 1510 mine; 800 from previous owner.
Pedals, Crank Arms & Bottom Bracket mileage: 1510 (All me)
Handlebar & Seatpost mileage: Unknown
:mad: THE ISSUE AT HAND :confused: :
When I ride and my drive-side foot reaches the area between 3 o'clock and 5 o'clock, I am driven to insanity with a single, clear, distinctive "TICKING" sound (sounds like someone flicking their fingernail on the center of a carbon fork). This tell tale heart is trying to break me... So I have come to the techie gurus of the world here in our forum for suggestions.
THOUGHT ABOUT:
A pin on my chain coming partially out and it was clipping one of the derailleurs while passing through it. NOT IT... BECAUSE: the 3-5 o'clock thing stays consistant regardless of the gear I am in. If it was a chain pin, then shifting from 39-11 to 53-23 would probably change where the ticking occurs (as far as the 3 to 5 o'clock thing is concerned).
THOUGHT ABOUT:
Chainring bolts being loose. Checked this. They are tight - BUT could too tight be an issue?
THOUGHT ABOUT:
"Seatpost creaking" - A simple, out of the saddle, non-excessive rocking of the frame while riding would drop that from the list. Tried it and it still TICKS!
THOUGHT ABOUT:
"Handlebar creaking": Rode without hands for a couple of rotations... Umm Still continued to TICK!
THOUGHT ABOUT:
I still have the original bearings in the bottom bracket. No maintenance at all done to BB.
PROCESS OF ILLIMINATION / TROUBLE SHOOTING:
1. Unclipped drive-side foot: No noise
2. Unclipped non-drive side foot: Less noise.
3. Rocked the frame hard in a sprint acceleration: I hear it clearer.
3. Pedaled lightly-soft pedaling through a curve in the road: Noise lessens
4. Intervals while out of the saddle in 11-23: Still TICKING!
5. Changed angle of foot in pedal (Heal in, then heal out): TICKING!
6. A friend said to check the breakaway rear derailleur hanger (it's tight).
7. Checked for cracks/unglueing where chainstays meet the bottom bracket.
8. Tightened Chainring bolts.
9. Checked Chain pins and derailleurs for signs of rubbing.
10. Checked for a stiff chain link.
11 Checked Crank arms for fractures.
12. Checked that pedals were secure & threaded into crank arm properly.
Now with that all said, :confused: :confused: :confused: toss me some input...
Thanks for reading my post! :)
CJ
Currently in Guam aboard the SS Petersburg
Can you provide some info on the BB - if it's Campy style with a press fit cup on each side of the bearing, I can suggest something to try .
I'll bet it's your cleats. Is the clicking/ticking in time with your cadence, especially when loading or unloading pressure from your pedal(s).
I ride Campy Chorus pedals and the carbon frame and carbon crank arms amplify my cleats 'ticking' or 'snapping' sound to the point it makes me want to switch to speedplays! My noise occurs from the right pedal at TDC (12 o'clock).
I've greased the pedals (the usual cure) to no avail. The ticking only occurs during a certain torque range. If I just noodle along...no noise. If I'm spinning a high cadence...no noise. If I'm boot-stomping it up a steep climb...no noise.
But!! If I'm 'in' the right torque/rpm zone the noise is very audible and annoying.
I've checked everything from the Ultra-Torque crank bolt to the chainring spider bolts to the pedal mounting axle bolt torque to deraileur rub due to frame flex (not a mark on the backside of the crank arm)...nothing seems to cure it.
I ride cleats that have float built in and I'm guessing my right foot is rotating a cleat against the pedal at TDC or the front plastic lip of the cleat is 'snapping' against the aluminum pedal locking loop when i load/unload that pedal.
litespeedguy, I'm running a Campy Ultra-Torque BB...I'm all ears!
Couple of suggestions.
Check front quick release skewer (I recently had this--fixed problem with putting an additional quarter turn on the nut prior to closing release, and front derailleur mount (could be creaking against the frame--try retorquing).
It could be the pedal--maybe swap out a different right pedal.
Could be the BB cups in the frame--maybe it has loosened a little over the past 1510 miles and needs to be tightened up.
Check with Kestrel as to the compatibility of the BB, Crankset, Chain for that frame.
My Kestrel is not designed for BBs with external bearings, thus limiting my project to 9 speed.
Also, check how much seat post is inside the frame, it will be in the instructions.
Suggest you try to reproduce the noise in a "static" condition by pushing the front wheel into a wall, then putting pressure on the crank arms. With the bike stationary, you might be able to hear the source better. You could use your hand to press hard on the pedals with your ear close to the BB, seatpost and headset.
Salty air environment can get corrosion going quickly on dissimilar metals....I'll bet you don't need me to tell you that :) You've got at least three places where steel bearings or fasteners come in contact with the frame: headset, BB, and rear dropouts.
Your Evoke has two-piece rear alloy dropouts, held together with flathead steel screws. Sounds hard to believe, but have found that slight corrosion between the steel screws and the dropout ends which can produce a tick; once per each hard pedal push as the rear triangle reacts.
If you determine that's actually the problem, be careful wrenching on the little screws; believe they are "locktited" in. Spraying the screw heads with penetrating lube might do the trick, or you could contact Kestrel tech support guys for help. Good luck!
Hi CampyBob,
Well as I said in my original post: I rotated my heal inward and outward, which changes the pressure applied to the pedal due to angle of the cleat within the pedal. One way (turned (heal) turned to the right it wedges the cleat hard against the front carbon lip of the pedal and the other relieves the pressure a little (because I am limited on the inward turn because of the bladed spokes wanting to make sushi out of my heal and ankle), but it is still tighter than when my foot is normally positioned within the pedal],) and I found that the noise continued. So, it would be my guess that the ticking is probably not associated with the cleat.
J.F.Y.I.: Gear installed: Look Keo Carbon Ti Pedals with the gray Keo Cleat (This is a cleat with the white teflon on it).
Gotta get back down to the Engine Room, lunch is over... Man I love wireless internet on this ship! Best part is that I am closer to riding AGAIN! Come on 4 PM! I will read more and comment on orther replies later. Thanks for your input! :cool:
Can you change out the rear wheel? Borrow a friends if only briefly, this could be loose spokes. I had this problem once while using a cheap rear wheel with loose spokes. (I've re-trued the wheel and only use it when it rains now) When I went to a new wheel the problem went away. Between 3 and 5 o'clock you are really putting a lot of torque from your hub to your rim by way of the spokes, and if they are loose they can tick where they cross.
My question is, was the sound there from the first day you built it up and started riding it, or was it silent at first, then developed the noise later?
The only useful piece of advice I can give is to be completely methodical in identifying and eliminating it.
Start with the easy stuff, put another set of wheels on, grease the skewers and see if the problem persists. If it's still there you've ruled the wheels out.
Next take the BB out and thoroughly clean the threads on both the BB and the frame. A little white spirit and a rag to start, then a very fine wire brush to make sure there is no grit anywhere in the threads. Reassemble and use teflon tape.
Next look the seatpost. Take it out clean it all out, grease the binder bolt(s). Lightly grease the post as well.
Next is the front end assembly, bars, stem, headset ...
Basically on and on until you find it.
--brett
TO SIDESHOW BOB:
I bought the bike used. One owner. He had the Kestrel Evoke frame and upgraded everything before selling it. Full SRAM Force 10 speed, Kestrel Handlebar, Mavic Ksyrium Special Edition wheel set, 165g Selle Italia SLR saddle... I loved it all.. well except it hadn't any pedals and I must admit I am not crazy about the ITM stem or the Oval Concepts 32.4mm seatpost (BUT the post is pretty darn light). The bike has been silent and super fast since day one. Then last week a bit of a ticking and the next ride it went away. Then yesterday it comes back louder... like it was sending morse code to a deaf man in the arctic. Today, I thought about what one guy wrote about and that would be that it could be my spokes. I have radial 18 spokes front and radial drive-side rear with two cross opposite that.
JUST FOR EVERYONE'S INFORMATION: These Mavic wheels are built in a way that the spokes don't touch during the two cross pattern.
I added on Cateye computer and Cateye headlight... As well as a Bell tail light and the light on my seatstay is called a GUPPY (which is simplistic & light enough to love having on your bike). I added a mini-pump and a small Specialized seat pack [irons, patch kit, tube stored in a sock, Park multi-tool, Park spoke wrench, extra chain links, brass schrader adapter, emergency money and some lint]... Oh and the Look Keo Carbon Ti pedals.
The bike arrived professionally packed in a corrigated bike box that had nylon webbing and Fastex buckles inside of it. The wheels were separated from the frame with long thin sheets of what looked like ensolite (SP?) pads from my 1980's backpacking days and the frame was spotless.
The owner stated that there were 800 miles on the frame... I looked at the area where the rear brake cabel wraps around the non-drive-side of the head tube and there wasn't the least bit of scuffing or rub marks from the cable housing... That usually happens within 800 miles unless you always rode in a straight line of made left turns... Maybe this guy was a NACAR driver, huh?
Anyway tonight the ticking continued and I tried to troubleshoot some more.
Miles 0-8... Warm up: Still ticking
Miles 8-17... Let the games begin:
TRIED: Unclipping one foot at a time and slightly hopping (never leaving the ground) to see if it was in the frame (Foot clipped in was at 6 o'clock).
RESULT: Nothing it didn't tick.
TRIED: Checking my spokes for tightness.
RESULT: All nice and tight.
TRIED: Pedaling slowly up hill...
RESULT: Found out that ticking actually occurs when right foot is positioned at 6 o'clock
TRIED: Feeling front derailleur as well as downtube for ticking vibration or play in the derailleur (checking for loose allen bolt).
RESULT: Felt the ticking vibration, but derailleur wasn't loose.
TRIED: Pedaling the drive-side crank arm from 3 o'clock to 7 o'clock then do a fast back pedal in order to repeat the action.
RESULT: Did this several times in a row and the ticking/clicking /whatever clicked right on cue as my crank arms bottomed out around the 6 o'clock mark.
TRIED: Letting air out of my Bianchi Cruiser's tires... Just kidding ... but what the heck, I might as well because sooner or later I will either fix this or I will be visiting with an exorcist.
That is where things stood until mile 17. I had considered putting baseball cards on my spokes with clothes pins, just to drown out the "Chinese frame ticking torture" test!
Miles 17-22... Somewhere in this stretch of darkening Guam highway the ticking just stops.
Miles 22-32... Ridden on the same 1.2 mile road... back and forth and the ticking was not heard from again.
GO FIGURE... STAY TUNED MORE TO COME I AM SURE...
Thanks for your input Brett! I like the wheel option... I will have to find someone with SRAM Force cogs... I may be the only one on the island with it from the reaction I received at the local bike shops. The bottom bracket seems to be the way I am leaning... I would like to have my own tools and do the work myself.. so off to Ebay I must go. Goodnight all!
:) ~CJ~ :)
Still here in Guam.. Everday is one less day here and one day closer to a 70.3
My question is, was the sound there from the first day you built it up and started riding it, or was it silent at first, then developed the noise later?
The only useful piece of advice I can give is to be completely methodical in identifying and eliminating it.
Start with the easy stuff, put another set of wheels on, grease the skewers and see if the problem persists. If it's still there you've ruled the wheels out.
Next take the BB out and thoroughly clean the threads on both the BB and the frame. A little white spirit and a rag to start, then a very fine wire brush to make sure there is no grit anywhere in the threads. Reassemble and use teflon tape.
Next look the seatpost. Take it out clean it all out, grease the binder bolt(s). Lightly grease the post as well.
Next is the front end assembly, bars, stem, headset ...
Basically on and on until you find it.
--brett
SRAM and Shimano cassette spacing are interchangeable. You should be able to use any Shimano 10s wheel in that drivetrain. You may need a slight adjustment of the rear derailleur stops or a slight turn or the cable adjusting barrel.
Thanks John... I knew it was close since the chains are interchangable (I am using an Ultegra now). Today's ride was a brief 20.5, which came immediately on the heels of a 6.8 mile run (1/2 of which was uphill)... BUT there wasn't a peep out of the MYSTERY TIME BOMB that had been ticking away on my bike.
I'll keep people posted.
Thanks again.
Happy 4th of July to you... It is almost over here.:eek:
SRAM and Shimano cassette spacing are interchangeable. You should be able to use any Shimano 10s wheel in that drivetrain. You may need a slight adjustment of the rear derailleur stops or a slight turn or the cable adjusting barrel.
Check the Look cleats. I had the same noise and the cleat had worn out. Change the cleat and it will go away.
- tighten , firmly , front quick-release.
- mine was torque up nice , but not tight enough , which allowed a "click" sound as the QR slipped against the fork-dropouts , just as the right crank bottomed out , when I climb standing.
- hope you sort it out.
- noise drives me bananas too.
.
this sounds like a classic fixed cup problem, even tho your bearings and cups may differ from the old equipment, pulling the crank and bb and lubing appropriately (according to manufacturer) don't skip any of their advice... back in the day chainring bolt threads needed lube, dont know about todays high tech cranks...
I have the same problem. I had it into the shop three times and they said they fixed it each time. It ticks when the bike is being flexed or under load - climbing etc. I'm just riding it for now; everything has been checked for safety so.....
WHAT I BOUGHT:
2005 Kestrel Evoke frame, SRAM Force Cranks & Chainrings, Look KEO Carbon Ti Pedals, Oval Concepts 32.4 Seatpost, Kestrel carbon EMS Pro handlebar (it's the gray, not yellow one).
Frame mileage estimated: 1510 mine; 800 from previous owner.
Pedals, Crank Arms & Bottom Bracket mileage: 1510 (All me)
Handlebar & Seatpost mileage: Unknown
:mad: THE ISSUE AT HAND :confused: :
When I ride and my drive-side foot reaches the area between 3 o'clock and 5 o'clock, I am driven to insanity with a single, clear, distinctive "TICKING" sound (sounds like someone flicking their fingernail on the center of a carbon fork). This tell tale heart is trying to break me... So I have come to the techie gurus of the world here in our forum for suggestions.
THOUGHT ABOUT:
A pin on my chain coming partially out and it was clipping one of the derailleurs while passing through it. NOT IT... BECAUSE: the 3-5 o'clock thing stays consistant regardless of the gear I am in. If it was a chain pin, then shifting from 39-11 to 53-23 would probably change where the ticking occurs (as far as the 3 to 5 o'clock thing is concerned).
THOUGHT ABOUT:
Chainring bolts being loose. Checked this. They are tight - BUT could too tight be an issue?
THOUGHT ABOUT:
"Seatpost creaking" - A simple, out of the saddle, non-excessive rocking of the frame while riding would drop that from the list. Tried it and it still TICKS!
THOUGHT ABOUT:
"Handlebar creaking": Rode without hands for a couple of rotations... Umm Still continued to TICK!
THOUGHT ABOUT:
I still have the original bearings in the bottom bracket. No maintenance at all done to BB.
PROCESS OF ILLIMINATION / TROUBLE SHOOTING:
1. Unclipped drive-side foot: No noise
2. Unclipped non-drive side foot: Less noise.
3. Rocked the frame hard in a sprint acceleration: I hear it clearer.
3. Pedaled lightly-soft pedaling through a curve in the road: Noise lessens
4. Intervals while out of the saddle in 11-23: Still TICKING!
5. Changed angle of foot in pedal (Heal in, then heal out): TICKING!
6. A friend said to check the breakaway rear derailleur hanger (it's tight).
7. Checked for cracks/unglueing where chainstays meet the bottom bracket.
8. Tightened Chainring bolts.
9. Checked Chain pins and derailleurs for signs of rubbing.
10. Checked for a stiff chain link.
11 Checked Crank arms for fractures.
12. Checked that pedals were secure & threaded into crank arm properly.
Now with that all said, :confused: :confused: :confused: toss me some input...
Thanks for reading my post! :)
CJ
Currently in Guam aboard the SS Petersburg
Hi Vascdoc
My cleats are fairly new, LOL 1500 miles new... I wear cleat covers obsessively when I am out of my Keo's... I will check them now... ya never know could be a chunk missing from when I had to shuffle a few hermit crabs off my riding surface at 23 m.p.h.... Hang on checking... Well, I would be honest in saying that the cleats could be sold on ebay as "Very slightly used" despite the mileage.
Thanks for the suggestion :)
Check the Look cleats. I had the same noise and the cleat had worn out. Change the cleat and it will go away.
Hey Keith!
Carlisle huh? That was always the first rest area for my hiking partner and I as we would head west (We are aspirant members of the High Pointers Club)... Anyway, I have the power to make the noise disappear... thoughts of home and all that I miss there, the fact the Versus Network is not carried by Marianas Cablevision (GRRR!) etc., etc. ... I am going to consult the book I just bought Zinn & The Art of Road Bike Maintenance ... I will be getting on those chainring bolts right now, just because it is an easy enough thing to do. I am also checking my front skewer now too.
SKEWER couldn't be tighter... Springs are there (coned inward), QR nut threads look fine
CHAINRING BOLTS: Reading Zinn's book now it advises to lube the threads of the chainring bolts as well as the recesses that accept them. My issue is: I brought a lot of bike stuff with me to Guam from Florida... Including some lubricating items like Phil Wood's Waterproof Grease (Bearings), Phil Wood's Tenacious Oil (Chains and Cables) and White Lightning (Chains)... Being that I work as part of this ship's Engine Department I have access to a wide range of spray on, squirt in or dab on lubricants. Any suggestions? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? :p
I have the same problem. I had it into the shop three times and they said they fixed it each time. It ticks when the bike is being flexed or under load - climbing etc. I'm just riding it for now; everything has been checked for safety so.....
Did I miss the part where you checked the crank bolts and torqued them up. Do you have a Ti crank axle with bolts going into them or studs coming out of them with nuts. I had a Ti crank axle in my Giant and the bolts were constantly coming loose...and ticking and creaking and driving me crazy too.
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