Re: OT: joining the ranks of two wheelers again

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On Jul 24, 1:46 pm, "DanK...@gmail.com" <DanK...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 24, 12:58 pm, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
>

<snip>

> > ISTM that they are trying to avoid the question. Those things, bad as
> > they are, were not thrown down at random. They cost money to install,
> > so no street department is going to install them without reason. What
> > could possibly have been the jurisdiction's motivation?
>
> Complaining residents. The problem is that the complaints are often
> unfounded and inaccurate, much like people telling me to slow down my
> bike when I'm doing 26 in a 30.

Surely. But my point was, when I see a speed bump in the road, I may
bitch about it, but unless it is in my neighborhood or at least town,
and I have roots in the community and have a vested interest in making
things right, I'm not going to bother digging into the history of that
particular speed bump to find out why it was installed, since there's
not a whole lot I can do about it. I currently live in a small
"city" (it is technically a city, albeit smaller than some small
towns) which to my knowledge does not have any speed bumps at all,
although there are some speed *humps* on various roads, the Impala is
the only vehicle that scrapes on them, and in that case it is hard to
fault the humps for the scraping because the Impala is such a
rediculously low POS that it also scrapes pulling into my driveway.
Yes, it's a company car, I would have never chosen it for myself. But
my point was, I don't know the history of the installation of any
speed bumps, because there aren't any in a location where I could
actually do something about them.

>
> > As you boy drivers are zooming about, playing Speed Racer, cutting
> > through neighborhoods, ask yourself: Could it possibly have anything
> > to do with boy drivers who are zooming about, playing Speed Racer,
> > cutting through neighborhoods?
>
> Since you are replying to my post, are you calling me a "boy driver
> zooming about, playing Speed Racer, cutting through neighborhoods"?
> That would be quite a jump and assumption, considering you know
> nothing about me and my driving habits.

Jumping to conclusions is something Frank is good at; the last time we
had this discussion, he basically disregarded everything I said
because at that time I drove a VW Scirocco. Now, it's not a
particularly low to the ground car, and anyone who knows their old VWs
knows that it's just a Wabbit in a party dress, but he dismissed it
out of hand as a "toy car" and basically said that I deserved what I
got because it would scrape bottom on speed bumps. Never mind that
the speed bumps in question were as high as a regular curb; reality
and logic don't seem to matter much to ol' Frank.

Of course, being a bike aficionado, I'll bet he bitches about people
driving large gas-guzzlers, too. So no matter what you drive, it's
probably not acceptable to Frank. Oh well.

nate

On Jul 24, 2:42 pm, Peter Cole <peter_c...@comcast.net> wrote:
> DanK...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > My intention was simply to show an example of speed bumps on public
> > roads, as you asked for such a display since you'd never seen one.
> > They're not uncommon in MA where I grew up, so I knew I could find one
> > in short order.
>
> I grew up & still live in MA, and I think speed bumps are extremely rare.
>
> > Complaining residents. The problem is that the complaints are often
> > unfounded and inaccurate,
>
> I'm one of those. Speeding in residential areas, like my neighborhood is
> very common. I'm a very big fan of traffic calming.

Who's doing the speeding, though? Studies have repeatedly shown that
the people most likely to speed through neighborhoods are the
residents themselves, and often the very same people who call for
stepped up enforcement.

I find the last rather deliciously ironic, myself.

nate

Zoot Katz wrote:

> It's better than having unmarked potholes to slow down traffic. They
> can be hell on a bike if you don't see them.

That is true. But to me, speed humps are merely marked inverse potholes
that you can't avoid.

Wayne

N8N wrote:
> On Jul 24, 2:42 pm, Peter Cole <peter_c...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> DanK...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> My intention was simply to show an example of speed bumps on public
>>> roads, as you asked for such a display since you'd never seen one.
>>> They're not uncommon in MA where I grew up, so I knew I could find one
>>> in short order.
>> I grew up & still live in MA, and I think speed bumps are extremely rare.
>>
>>> Complaining residents. The problem is that the complaints are often
>>> unfounded and inaccurate,
>> I'm one of those. Speeding in residential areas, like my neighborhood is
>> very common. I'm a very big fan of traffic calming.
>
> Who's doing the speeding, though? Studies have repeatedly shown that
> the people most likely to speed through neighborhoods are the
> residents themselves, and often the very same people who call for
> stepped up enforcement.
>
> I find the last rather deliciously ironic, myself.

Yes, there are a lot of them, there's also a lot of cut thru during
mornings & evenings bypassing more congested arterials.

I doubt that the same people who speed would request humps, but I'd be
happy to see those studies.

BTW, I also drove a Sirocco ('83). Wasn't the resonator that bottomed
first, it was the cat heat shield.

Peter Cole wrote:
> N8N wrote:
>
>> On Jul 24, 2:42 pm, Peter Cole <peter_c...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> DanK...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>> My intention was simply to show an example of speed bumps on public
>>>> roads, as you asked for such a display since you'd never seen one.
>>>> They're not uncommon in MA where I grew up, so I knew I could find one
>>>> in short order.
>>>
>>> I grew up & still live in MA, and I think speed bumps are extremely
>>> rare.
>>>
>>>> Complaining residents. The problem is that the complaints are often
>>>> unfounded and inaccurate,
>>>
>>> I'm one of those. Speeding in residential areas, like my neighborhood is
>>> very common. I'm a very big fan of traffic calming.
>>
>>
>> Who's doing the speeding, though? Studies have repeatedly shown that
>> the people most likely to speed through neighborhoods are the
>> residents themselves, and often the very same people who call for
>> stepped up enforcement.
>>
>> I find the last rather deliciously ironic, myself.
>
>
> Yes, there are a lot of them, there's also a lot of cut thru during
> mornings & evenings bypassing more congested arterials.
>
> I doubt that the same people who speed would request humps, but I'd be
> happy to see those studies.
>
> BTW, I also drove a Sirocco ('83). Wasn't the resonator that bottomed
> first, it was the cat heat shield.

the, um, what? <G> by the time I got mine ('84, pretty much the same
car, although they might have still been using the 1.7 in 83?) the heat
shield was long gone, and the rest of the exhaust was soon to follow. I
replaced it with a Techtonics Tuning stainless system because it was
actually cheaper than the factory parts, but it gave me nothing but
headaches. It used a stainless "bullet" glasspack down the center
tunnel as a resonator, and while it didn't hang any lower than the cat,
it took the brunt of the abuse as it was about dead center in the
wheelbase. Would have been OK if I lived in a land of glass smooth
roads but one morning it finally completely ripped off, and it's LOUD
with only a (dual pipe, I backdated it) downpipe and a cat of dubious
integrity. (not a slam against TT, they make a fine product and it's
refreshing that they just use a simple polished stainless pipe as a tip
instead of the fart cannons that the ricer crowd seem to favor, just the
combination of my car, that exhaust, and the ludicrous speed bumps I had
to go over every day did not get along.)

As to your other question, I know that there have been news articles
posted here before basically reporting residents of community X up in
arms because they're being ticketed by the same officers they petitioned
for to set up a speed trap on their street... also there may have
actually been a formal study but I don't have time to look it up right
now. If I find some time later in the week I'll look for it.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Jul 24, 10:46 am, "DanK...@gmail.com" <DanK...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 24, 12:58 pm, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Note that John Allen's site (the "bikexprt" site) says: "The newer
> > designs of speed humps and speed tables are relatively benign for
> > bicyclists..." which is what I was saying and Brent was denying.
>
> I thought you were denying that such bumps exist.

Nope. I was denying that they're common. I've lived long enough to
know that one can always find an anomaly if one looks long enough.
And let me remind you, I do _not_ advocate speed bumps on public
streets. I'm speaking in favor of properly designed speed _humps_.

>
> > Which, again, brings us to the question: Why install such a extreme
> > measure as a harsh speed bump in a place like Brent's photo, a
> > residential neighborhood? Nate and Matthew said, basically, "How
> > should I know???"
>
> People do stupid shit all the time. IMO this is a knee-jerk reaction
> to people having issues with traffic on "their street". IME people
> who are yelling at you to slow down on "their street" are often
> yelling at the vehicle and not the driver, or are yelling because
> they're miffed with their spouse and can't take the anger out on
> them.

I'll describe the last such incident I saw, which was on my street. I
was talking to the new couple on the street, the ones with the young
twins. They walk around frequently, pushing their double baby
carriage. He's an interesting guy - British, did a lot of cycling in
the Alps.

Anyway, as we conversed, a young guy with a loud "sport" muffler went
by at perhaps 45 mph, and made sure to blip the throttle as he
passed. The new neighbor yelled at him, and the kid gave him the
finger.

The neighbor was furious, of course, and talked about all the children
in the neighborhood being endangered. He certainly wasn't angry at
his spouse, or anyone else. He was justifiably angry at young Mr.
Speed Racer.

That was about, oh, six months ago. Now let's move to last week.

Our next door neighbors were talking to me about the fast cut-through
traffic. Note, I did _not_ initiate this conversation (nor the
previous one). But since I'm on a couple village committees, our
neighbors were asking me what I thought could be done about it.

I told them whom to call with their complaints. Before the
conversation was over, they came up with the idea of having their son
take data - something he seems to like doing - and getting signatures
from other families with kids.

Again, I didn't even say anything about this problem until these
neighbors broached the subject to me. I did, however, mention that
speed humps have worked in a similar neighborhood about three miles
away. My next door neighbors seemed to like the idea very much. I
don't think I mentioned the idea to the British guy, but he was
proposing a different idea: making the street closed to all but
residents.

> > ISTM that they are trying to avoid the question. Those things, bad as
> > they are, were not thrown down at random. They cost money to install,
> > so no street department is going to install them without reason. What
> > could possibly have been the jurisdiction's motivation?
>
> Complaining residents. The problem is that the complaints are often
> unfounded and inaccurate, much like people telling me to slow down my
> bike when I'm doing 26 in a 30.

And "often" is the vague word that saves a little plausibility for
your statement. ISTM that, as in the case of our neighborhood, the
complaints are more often accurate and well-founded.

In my view, residential streets should be used by those motorists who
live there, and those who need access to their houses, like delivery
vans. If the addition of speed humps or other traffic calming
measures make the residential streets irritating to others, that's
perfectly fine. They can stick to the arterials.

> > As you boy drivers are zooming about, playing Speed Racer, cutting
> > through neighborhoods, ask yourself: Could it possibly have anything
> > to do with boy drivers who are zooming about, playing Speed Racer,
> > cutting through neighborhoods?
>
> Since you are replying to my post, are you calling me a "boy driver
> zooming about, playing Speed Racer, cutting through neighborhoods"?
> That would be quite a jump and assumption, considering you know
> nothing about me and my driving habits.

That's true, I don't. But the speed hump complaints I hear tend to be
from guys driving sporty cars, and guys whose identities are so tied
to their cars that they hang around rec.autos.driving. I recall one
complainer claiming that the police followed his car regularly. And
several have complained that speed limits are set too low.

Somehow, those characteristics make me suspect that the boys tend to
have heavy throttle feet, and value their speed over the peace and
safety of the neighborhoods through which they pass.

You may be an exception. (Again, one can always find an anomaly if
one looks long enough.) If so, I apologize to you.

- Frank Krygowski

Nate Nagel wrote:

> As to your other question, I know that there have been news articles
> posted here before basically reporting residents of community X up in
> arms because they're being ticketed by the same officers they petitioned
> for to set up a speed trap on their street...

I have no doubt that this is not uncommon, but I would be surprised if
people who petitioned for a speed hump later changed their mind about it.

My community (Newton, MA) is pretty conservative about traffic calming.
To the best of my knowledge, we don't have any. The city's traffic
engineer seems to be a throwback to the 50's, with his only concern
being throughput. I think he's a chucklehead. The only upside is that
it's pretty much saved us from bike lanes.

The thing I find ironic about local residents speeding in their own
neighborhood is their desire to move out to "quieter" towns, not
realizing that they are themselves a large part of the problem. Over the
years, I have seen those "quieter" communities get much less so as the
influx brings the very things they were trying to escape -- and so it
goes, with people moving farther out to try to escape -- themselves.

Cars are great from getting from point A to B, but they pretty much crap
things up at all other times.

In article <1185333373.247276.275660@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:

>> I thought you were denying that such bumps exist.

> Nope. I was denying that they're common.

They are more common than the 'well designed speed hump'.

> I've lived long enough to
> know that one can always find an anomaly if one looks long enough.
> And let me remind you, I do _not_ advocate speed bumps on public
> streets. I'm speaking in favor of properly designed speed _humps_.

It's still intentionally placing a hazard in the roadway that cannot be
safely driven or ridden over at the posted speed limit.

> Anyway, as we conversed, a young guy with a loud "sport" muffler went
> by at perhaps 45 mph, and made sure to blip the throttle as he
> passed. The new neighbor yelled at him, and the kid gave him the
> finger.

You just made his case... you think it was 45mph, when it was probably
25mph. The rest of your description leads to believing it was 25mph and
loud exhaust. See, at 45mph he would have been in a higher gear and there
wouldn't have been much noise. at 25mph, in a lower gear, there would be
more noise and any little change in throttle would have made the blip you
describe.

> Our next door neighbors were talking to me about the fast cut-through
> traffic. Note, I did _not_ initiate this conversation (nor the
> previous one). But since I'm on a couple village committees, our
> neighbors were asking me what I thought could be done about it.

Frank posts he found someone to agree with him.... wooptie do. Of course
if the arterials in your village weren't f'd up, you wouldn't have cut
through traffic. But you had to have your arterials as speed traps with
similiar speed limits as residential streets.....

>> Complaining residents. The problem is that the complaints are often
>> unfounded and inaccurate, much like people telling me to slow down my
>> bike when I'm doing 26 in a 30.

> And "often" is the vague word that saves a little plausibility for
> your statement. ISTM that, as in the case of our neighborhood, the
> complaints are more often accurate and well-founded.

More than once as I drove 20-25mph... or even bicycled the same speed
some dufus would run a stop sign and then yell at me to 'slow down'.
Because obviously, my 22.5mph pace made it dangerous for them to run stop
signs.

> In my view, residential streets should be used by those motorists who
> live there, and those who need access to their houses, like delivery
> vans. If the addition of speed humps or other traffic calming
> measures make the residential streets irritating to others, that's
> perfectly fine. They can stick to the arterials.

Trouble is, you already screwed up the arterials with underposted speed
limits and I wouldn't be surprised if you put speed humps on the
arterials too. Why not just dig a moat around the village and give the
residents key cards to operate a draw bridge to get in and out?

>> Since you are replying to my post, are you calling me a "boy driver
>> zooming about, playing Speed Racer, cutting through neighborhoods"?
>> That would be quite a jump and assumption, considering you know
>> nothing about me and my driving habits.

> That's true, I don't. But the speed hump complaints I hear tend to be
> from guys driving sporty cars,

Because we should all be driving sensible vehicles like those Frank
drives. I'll bet my cannondale road bike is too sporty for frank too.
Better to have a balloon tired cruiser... *snort*

> and guys whose identities are so tied
> to their cars that they hang around rec.autos.driving. I recall one
> complainer claiming that the police followed his car regularly.

That's what driving legally does, it gets the attention of bored cops
because it's abnormal behavior when the speed of traffic is higher than
the posted speed limit. It's odd behavior. I got the attention of FOUR
bored cops *WALKING* home with my dinner just over a week ago. That was
real fun as they went through my pockets because (according to them) someone
wearing a similiar colored shirt cracked (they said broke and made it
seem much bigger than the cracked door window I found when I went to
verify their story) a window at a fast food place. If I had been driving
like everybody else I would have been safe from the cops, but my odd
behavior of walking made me suspect.

> And
> several have complained that speed limits are set too low.

Read up on the 85th percentile method Frank. I find that a properly set
speed limit leads to much better bicycling conditions. When the speed
limit is set properly, the number of frustrated drivers trying to pass
using the right lane is dramatically lowered. This reduction in conflict
makes riding a road much more pleasant. For instance, to cross a river I
have the choice of three arterial roads, a mile spaced from each other.

1) A two lane road with ditches on either side posted at 40mph
2) A six lane road with expressway like sight lines (and in the
section I've biked to get across the river), actual exit and on ramps
instead of an intersection) posted at 45mph.
3) A four lane road with curbing posted at 50mph.

I have ridden all three roads several times each under a variety of
traffic levels. Road number 3 is the easiest to ride. Why? It's 50mph
speed limit is the cloest to actual travel speeds and it flows better
with slower traffic to the right. This makes it easy for motorists to
pass a bicyclist with a full lane and doesn't create a conflict between
drivers using the right lane to pass and bicyclists. Road 2, *SHOULD* be
the best road to ride, but because it is so severely underposted, the
right lane sees 65-70mph traffic getting around those in the left lanes
going slower.

> Somehow, those characteristics make me suspect that the boys tend to
> have heavy throttle feet, and value their speed over the peace and
> safety of the neighborhoods through which they pass.

And frank has been told many times by those of us in r.a.d who bike and
drive that we don't drive any faster in neighborhoods than we bike them.
Of course this doesn't register and will continue not to register.

The only place I drive 'fast' is on limited access highways, and fast is
in quotes because I still drive slower than the police.

On Jul 24, 2:59 pm, Zoot Katz <zootk...@operamail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 14:33:37 -0400, Wayne Pein <wp...@nc.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >Brent P wrote:
>
> >> However a speed table is still a hazard placed in the road and would not
> >> be wise to ride at 25mph.
>
> >Chapel Hill NC has recently placed a few speed tables on residential
> >streets, all streets posted at 25 mph. The speed tables are designed and
> >signed for 15 mph, and are placed on roads with steep slopes. It is no
> >problem to do 25 mph on a bike descending these roads, but the speed
> >tables really do prevent that speed on a road bike.
>
> >Given that they are designed for 15 mph and placed on 25 mph roads, the
> >speed tables punish not only speeders, but also law abiding motorists
> >and bicyclists.
>
> As long as the speed limit is posted as 15MPH in the area of the
> speed tables, then that is the posted maximum speed permitted there.

that's not what he's saying. He's saying that the speed limit is 25
MPH. Possiblywith 15 MPH advisory signs in the area of the speed
tables, not clear to me.

>
> Why were they placed there is the question. To slow traffic so they
> could stop at the bottom of the hill or blind intersections maybe?
> Are there any schools, playgrounds, parks, care facilities, shopping
> or other attractions to draw pedestrians? Or is it just a section of
> town where taxpayers complaining about speeders on their residential
> street get a little extra consideration from city hall?

I would assume the latter, as that is the most common reason. Of
course what those "taxpayers complaining about speeders" are
neglecting to realize is that it is they and their neighbors that are
doing the speeding.

nate

On Jul 25, 9:11 am, tetraethylleadREMOVET...@yahoo.com (Brent P)
wrote:
> In article <1185333373.247276.275...@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:

> Trouble is, you already screwed up the arterials with underposted speed
> limits and I wouldn't be surprised if you put speed humps on the
> arterials too. Why not just dig a moat around the village and give the
> residents key cards to operate a draw bridge to get in and out?

It's happened. There's a community called Acquia Harbor (sp?) down
towards Quantico where there is basically a whole small town sized
area of nothing but residences, all gated and guarded. Of course, all
you have to do to get in is to drop the name of the person you're
there to visit, but I guess it makes the residents feel safer. I
actually know two different people who live there and they seem happy,
but personally I would rather disembowel myself with a spork than live
in a place like that.

nate

Tom Keats wrote:
> What you /will/ experience is socially inept drivers who
> think they can haul-up beside you on the stop lines, instead
> of queueing in an orderly manner behind you, as they would
> for any other vehicle -- and then hang a right turn from your
> left side, right in front of you as you try to go straight.

That's why I usually "take the lane" when approaching a stop sign, or
if I'm the first one at a red light.

Art Harris

On Jul 25, 6:11 am, tetraethylleadREMOVET...@yahoo.com (Brent P)
wrote:
> In article <1185333373.247276.275...@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>
>
> > Anyway, as we conversed, a young guy with a loud "sport" muffler went
> > by at perhaps 45 mph, and made sure to blip the throttle as he
> > passed. The new neighbor yelled at him, and the kid gave him the
> > finger.
>
> You just made his case... you think it was 45mph, when it was probably
> 25mph. The rest of your description leads to believing it was 25mph and
> loud exhaust. See, at 45mph he would have been in a higher gear and there
> wouldn't have been much noise. at 25mph, in a lower gear, there would be
> more noise and any little change in throttle would have made the blip you
> describe.

Well! It certainly doesn't make sense for me to argue with a guy who
can tell exactly what went from many hundred miles away - a guy whose
speed estimate is better than the witnesses' present!

But is it possible to blip the throttle at 45 mph? Hmm. Let's see -
I bet it could be done if the driver first stepped hard on that far-
left pedal. You know - the clutch? Does your car have one?

It also doesn't make sense for me to argue with a supposed motorhead
who is so VERY ignorant of the operation of a clutch! ;-)

- Frank Krygowski

In article <1185381308.919249.90550@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jul 25, 6:11 am, tetraethylleadREMOVET...@yahoo.com (Brent P)
> wrote:
>> In article <1185333373.247276.275...@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >>
>>
>> > Anyway, as we conversed, a young guy with a loud "sport" muffler went
>> > by at perhaps 45 mph, and made sure to blip the throttle as he
>> > passed. The new neighbor yelled at him, and the kid gave him the
>> > finger.
>>
>> You just made his case... you think it was 45mph, when it was probably
>> 25mph. The rest of your description leads to believing it was 25mph and
>> loud exhaust. See, at 45mph he would have been in a higher gear and there
>> wouldn't have been much noise. at 25mph, in a lower gear, there would be
>> more noise and any little change in throttle would have made the blip you
>> describe.
>
> Well! It certainly doesn't make sense for me to argue with a guy who
> can tell exactly what went from many hundred miles away - a guy whose
> speed estimate is better than the witnesses' present!

Yet you can tell exactly how we all drive having never seen us drive, and
being "many hundred miles away".

> But is it possible to blip the throttle at 45 mph? Hmm. Let's see -
> I bet it could be done if the driver first stepped hard on that far-
> left pedal. You know - the clutch? Does your car have one?

Guess your reading problem is still present. I was saying your
description is consistant with the vehicle traveling at 25mph. not
anything about what speedse throttle blips are possible.

Furthermore, if he had gone racing by at 45mph, he wouldn't have seen
your neighbor, heard your neighbor yell at him, understood what your
neighbor had said, and then still had time to flip off said neighbor.
At 25mph he would have. Plus in my own experience with people driving
40-45mph in 20-25mph zones is that they don't year someone yelling 'slow
down' or anything else. It is quite clear from your description you
proved the case of the person you were responding to.

> It also doesn't make sense for me to argue with a supposed motorhead
> who is so VERY ignorant of the operation of a clutch! ;-)

You're reduced to personal insults, lies, etc. You're one sad sack Frank.

On Jul 25, 12:35 pm, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Jul 25, 6:11 am, tetraethylleadREMOVET...@yahoo.com (Brent P)
> wrote:
>
> > In article <1185333373.247276.275...@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > Anyway, as we conversed, a young guy with a loud "sport" muffler went
> > > by at perhaps 45 mph, and made sure to blip the throttle as he
> > > passed. The new neighbor yelled at him, and the kid gave him the
> > > finger.
>
> > You just made his case... you think it was 45mph, when it was probably
> > 25mph. The rest of your description leads to believing it was 25mph and
> > loud exhaust. See, at 45mph he would have been in a higher gear and there
> > wouldn't have been much noise. at 25mph, in a lower gear, there would be
> > more noise and any little change in throttle would have made the blip you
> > describe.
>
> Well! It certainly doesn't make sense for me to argue with a guy who
> can tell exactly what went from many hundred miles away - a guy whose
> speed estimate is better than the witnesses' present!
>
> But is it possible to blip the throttle at 45 mph? Hmm. Let's see -
> I bet it could be done if the driver first stepped hard on that far-
> left pedal. You know - the clutch? Does your car have one?
>
> It also doesn't make sense for me to argue with a supposed motorhead
> who is so VERY ignorant of the operation of a clutch! ;-)
>
> - Frank Krygowski

Someone who knows how to operate a clutch would also know that a
declutch and throttle blip would be the appropriate method to make a
smooth, rev-matched downshift which would be appropriate when having
to slow for an obstacle in the roadway. So if the throttle blips
bother you, well, TFB, you shouldn't have had the damn speed bumps
installed in the first place.

nate

In article <1185333373.247276.275660@m37g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
<frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Jul 24, 10:46 am, "DanK...@gmail.com" <DanK...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Jul 24, 12:58 pm, frkry...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Note that John Allen's site (the "bikexprt" site) says: "The newer
>> > designs of speed humps and speed tables are relatively benign for
>> > bicyclists..." which is what I was saying and Brent was denying.
>>
>> I thought you were denying that such bumps exist.
>
>Nope. I was denying that they're common. I've lived long enough to
>know that one can always find an anomaly if one looks long enough.
>And let me remind you, I do _not_ advocate speed bumps on public
>streets. I'm speaking in favor of properly designed speed _humps_.

A speed hump is a speed bump with a better PR department.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.

In article <1185381308.919249.90550@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
<frkrygow@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> You just made his case... you think it was 45mph, when it was probably
>> 25mph. The rest of your description leads to believing it was 25mph and
>> loud exhaust. See, at 45mph he would have been in a higher gear and there
>> wouldn't have been much noise. at 25mph, in a lower gear, there would be
>> more noise and any little change in throttle would have made the blip you
>> describe.
>
>Well! It certainly doesn't make sense for me to argue with a guy who
>can tell exactly what went from many hundred miles away - a guy whose
>speed estimate is better than the witnesses' present!

Your estimate is inconsistent with your description.

>But is it possible to blip the throttle at 45 mph? Hmm. Let's see -
>I bet it could be done if the driver first stepped hard on that far-
>left pedal. You know - the clutch? Does your car have one?

It could be done, but it wouldn't make the distinctive sound, which is
mostly from the _closing_ of the throttle. Without the mass of the
whole car to keep the engine at speed against the resistance of the
throttle, you don't get that sound. The sound of an engine revving
with no load is quite different.
--
There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can
result in a fully-depreciated one.

On Jul 25, 2:26 pm, russo...@grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T. Russotto)
wrote:
> In article <1185381308.919249.90...@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>
> <frkry...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> You just made his case... you think it was 45mph, when it was probably
> >> 25mph. The rest of your description leads to believing it was 25mph and
> >> loud exhaust. See, at 45mph he would have been in a higher gear and there
> >> wouldn't have been much noise. at 25mph, in a lower gear, there would be
> >> more noise and any little change in throttle would have made the blip you
> >> describe.
>
> >Well! It certainly doesn't make sense for me to argue with a guy who
> >can tell exactly what went from many hundred miles away - a guy whose
> >speed estimate is better than the witnesses' present!
>
> Your estimate is inconsistent with your description.
>
> >But is it possible to blip the throttle at 45 mph? Hmm. Let's see -
> >I bet it could be done if the driver first stepped hard on that far-
> >left pedal. You know - the clutch? Does your car have one?
>
> It could be done, but it wouldn't make the distinctive sound, which is
> mostly from the _closing_ of the throttle. Without the mass of the
> whole car to keep the engine at speed against the resistance of the
> throttle, you don't get that sound. The sound of an engine revving
> with no load is quite different.

Ah, the "snap-crackle-pop." As long as it's not offensively loud,
drivers can do that in front of my house as much as they want.
"Mechanical music" to steal a phrase. Preferably a V-8, V-12 or flat
six, although certain inline sixes sound quite wonderful as well...

nate

On Jul 25, 10:26 am, russo...@grace.speakeasy.net (Matthew T.
Russotto) wrote:
> In article <1185381308.919249.90...@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>
> <frkry...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >But is it possible to blip the throttle at 45 mph? Hmm. Let's see -
> >I bet it could be done if the driver first stepped hard on that far-
> >left pedal. You know - the clutch? Does your car have one?
>
> It could be done, but it wouldn't make the distinctive sound, which is
> mostly from the _closing_ of the throttle. ...

It's fascinating that you think you know exactly what sound was being
made, without having been there, and without my giving a detailed
description!

Likewise, one of you is claiming it was a double-clutch in
preparation for passing over a speed hump - apparently losing sight of
the fact that there IS no speed hump!

You boy racers are so enamored with your Speed Racer fantasies that
reality has no relevance.

You're wasting your time here. You could gazing at glossy photos of
curvaceous, exotic cars in special magazines. Or watching car
commercial, fantasizing about those lovely curving roads magically
free of traffic. Or you could even be out under your cars, lovingly
waxing their undercarriages... and pretending it all matters.

Not that there's anything wrong with that!

Just leave the rest of us alone. We're not impressed by your car,
your speed, your noise, or your fantasies.

- Frank Krygowski

In article <1185471659.437080.269330@x40g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, frkrygow@gmail.com wrote:
> It's fascinating that you think you know exactly what sound was being
> made, without having been there, and without my giving a detailed
> description!

Your description != your speed estimate. That's the point. You've been
caught in at best idiotcy and at worst a lie.

> Just leave the rest of us alone. We're not impressed by your car,
> your speed, your noise, or your fantasies.

But you're probably jealous of my road bicycle and the fact I can do the
residential posted speed limit it with it.

Brent P wrote:
> ...
> Read up on the 85th percentile method Frank. I find that a properly set
> speed limit leads to much better bicycling conditions. When the speed
> limit is set properly, the number of frustrated drivers trying to pass
> using the right lane is dramatically lowered. This reduction in conflict
> makes riding a road much more pleasant. For instance, to cross a river I
> have the choice of three arterial roads, a mile spaced from each other.
>
> 1) A two lane road with ditches on either side posted at 40mph
> 2) A six lane road with expressway like sight lines (and in the
> section I've biked to get across the river), actual exit and on ramps
> instead of an intersection) posted at 45mph.
> 3) A four lane road with curbing posted at 50mph.
>
> I have ridden all three roads several times each under a variety of
> traffic levels. Road number 3 is the easiest to ride. Why? It's 50mph
> speed limit is the cloest to actual travel speeds and it flows better
> with slower traffic to the right. This makes it easy for motorists to
> pass a bicyclist with a full lane and doesn't create a conflict between
> drivers using the right lane to pass and bicyclists. Road 2, *SHOULD* be
> the best road to ride, but because it is so severely underposted, the
> right lane sees 65-70mph traffic getting around those in the left lanes
> going slower....

Can't we institute public flogging and vehicle crushing for people who
block the passing lanes AND those who pass on the right [1]?

[1] For countries that drive on the right.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
The weather is here, wish you were beautiful