Danielson to Italy

[Info.]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/?id=2003/aug03/aug26news2

[Tom Schulenburg]

Does this move make sense to anyone? Fasso Bortolo seems to be so loaded with talent, he'd be lucky
if they let him carry water bottles.

-T

[Kyle Legate]

Tom Schulenburg wrote:
> Does this move make sense to anyone? Fasso Bortolo seems to be so loaded with talent, he'd be
> lucky if they let him carry water bottles.
>
Which is exactly the job he needs for the first year. I'm sure he sees FB as a development step and
realizes that he can't just show up in Europe and be a superstar without paying the dues, and
suffering through the same learning curve as everyone else.

[jim gravity]

Originally posted by Tom Schulenburg
Does this move make sense to anyone? Fasso Bortolo seems to be so loaded with talent, he'd be lucky
if they let him carry water bottles.

-T

Yes.

Who in their right mind would let him be a leader in his first year?

This way, he gets to ride the biggest races. If he really is any good, it will show up next year in the Giro mountain stages. Then he can hope Fassa will send a squad to San Francisco.

[Ronde Chumpion]

"Kyle Legate" <legatek@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:<fe969d836c356195dac435a4a31744c6@news.teranews.com>...
> Tom Schulenburg wrote:
> > Does this move make sense to anyone? Fasso Bortolo seems to be so loaded with talent, he'd be
> > lucky if they let him carry water bottles.
> >
> Which is exactly the job he needs for the first year. I'm sure he sees FB as a development step
> and realizes that he can't just show up in Europe and be a superstar without paying the dues, and
> suffering through the same learning curve as everyone else.

Hey Kyle,

Most of what you write is sensible. Usually. You must not know 'The Next Big Thing' very well. If
you think he's ever gonna drop back to the cars for some stinky Italian, you'll be in for a big
shock in 2004.

T.D. Betting pool starts here. The kid will get his **** handed to him so many times, it will be
sick to watch. We'll see maybe one good day from him per year the next 6 years, usually around
contract talk time, too.

Can you say, "deer; with headlights in the eyes?"

Thanks, The Real RC

[Fred Marx]

Tom Schulenburg wrote:

> Does this move make sense to anyone? Fasso Bortolo seems to be so loaded with talent, he'd be
> lucky if they let him carry water bottles.
>
> -T

there is a rumour that Bartoli is shopping (may have been at cyclingnews..) and Ivanov went to
T-Mobile. Aitor has been a let down. Leaves Pozzato (who rocks but is young) and who else? Oh forgot
Basso that was stupid of me...

[Richard Adams]

Fred Marx wrote:

>
>
> Tom Schulenburg wrote:
>
>> Does this move make sense to anyone? Fasso Bortolo seems to be so loaded with talent, he'd be
>> lucky if they let him carry water bottles.
>>
>> -T
>
>
> there is a rumour that Bartoli is shopping (may have been at cyclingnews..) and Ivanov went to
> T-Mobile. Aitor has been a let down. Leaves Pozzato (who rocks but is young) and who else? Oh
> forgot Basso that was stupid of me...
>

A lieutenant to Basso is the only way I see this. Someone to look after him after Cipo ... uh, I
mean Petacchi and his pals bail, whom appear to suffer some kind of altitude sickness which sets in
at the base of a mountain.

[David N. Welton]

Richard Adams <ackthpt@concentric.net> writes:

> I didn't feel I berated anyone, I simply further poked fun at them. The sad part for an
> all-arounder of Basso's calibre is that he's apparently on the wrong team and only had two
> comrades left at the end of the race. Probably why he's in advanced talks with CSC, the better
> to be on a team which contests more than the last 500m of a stage, considering where his
> capacities lie.

You apparently don't follow European professional racing if you think that of Fassa Bortolo and
Giancarlo Ferretti, although admittedly they haven't had a stellar year.

--
David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Personal: http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/ Free
Software: http://www.dedasys.com/freesoftware/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/

[Van Hoorebeeck]

"David N. Welton" schreef:

>
>
> You apparently don't follow European professional racing if you think that of Fassa Bortolo and
> Giancarlo Ferretti, although admittedly they haven't had a stellar year.
>

UCI Team ranking - Division I - 17.08.2003

1 Fassa Bortolo 6,729.75 pts 2 Quick.Step-Davitamon 6,551.75 3 Team Saeco 6,476.00 4 Team Telekom
6,312.50 5 Gerolsteiner 4,649.00 6 iBanesto.com 4,636.00 7 Team CSC 4,497.60 8 Rabobank 4,318.75 9
Euskaltel-Euskadi 4,314.00 10 US Postal - Berry Floor 4,065.75

[David N. Welton]

Van Hoorebeeck Bart <bart.vanhoorebeeck@wvc.vlaanderen.be> writes:

> "David N. Welton" schreef:

> > You apparently don't follow European professional racing if you think that of Fassa Bortolo and
> > Giancarlo Ferretti, although admittedly they haven't had a stellar year.

> 1 Fassa Bortolo 6,729.75 pts

Well of course... but aside from Petacchi, and Pippo Pozzato's spring, they have certainly won
races, but not too many big ones, IIRC.

--
David N. Welton Consulting: http://www.dedasys.com/ Personal: http://www.dedasys.com/davidw/ Free
Software: http://www.dedasys.com/freesoftware/ Apache Tcl: http://tcl.apache.org/

[Van Hoorebeeck]

The guy you reacted too must have missed the Fassa team got 'ill' in the Tour, which only left 3 of
them. And he must have missed that calibers like Frigo and Bartoli are on the team, who didn't
deliver top wins this year. He also must have missed that Ferretti has cherished an attacking
philosophy through the years. The Petacchi 2003 phenomenon is a -welcome- exception for his team.

There are true talents like Montgomery carrying bottles in the team, that's right. When guys like
that get ready for more, the whole peloton will notice though. Of course Danielson could also go to
a smaller team and peak for Langkawi again....

[Fred Marx]

> A lieutenant to Basso is the only way I see this. Someone to look after him after Cipo

Basso is talking to CSC....TH rumours to be true? we'll soon know....

[Bob]

well said! Dumb people always think they should satart out at the top!

"Kyle Legate" <legatek@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fe969d836c356195dac435a4a31744c6@news.teranews.com...
> Tom Schulenburg wrote:
> > Does this move make sense to anyone? Fasso Bortolo seems to be so loaded with talent, he'd be
> > lucky if they let him carry water bottles.
> >
> Which is exactly the job he needs for the first year. I'm sure he sees FB
as
> a development step and realizes that he can't just show up in Europe and
be
> a superstar without paying the dues, and suffering through the same
learning
> curve as everyone else.

[Tom Schulenburg]

"Bob" <c.castawaybob2@verizon.net> wrote in message news:Xtw3b.10871$v57.497@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
> well said! Dumb people always think they should satart out at the top!
>
>
> "Kyle Legate" <legatek@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:fe969d836c356195dac435a4a31744c6@news.teranews.com...
> > Tom Schulenburg wrote:
> > > Does this move make sense to anyone? Fasso Bortolo seems to be so loaded with talent, he'd be
> > > lucky if they let him carry water bottles.
> > >
> > Which is exactly the job he needs for the first year. I'm sure he sees
FB
> as
> > a development step and realizes that he can't just show up in Europe and
> be
> > a superstar without paying the dues, and suffering through the same
> learning
> > curve as everyone else.
> >
> >

My thought was that Fasso Bortolo has so much talent, that TD would have a hard time making the
squad for big races. He'd end up ridding second tier races against the same (or lower) competition
that he raced against in the US. I would have thought that there'd be a squad that would be willing
to sign him and let him ride some of the bigger races as a second "protected" rider, or set him up
for a stage win in a grand tour. I don't see that happening with FB. If Basso and Pozzato stick
around, it would seem that there would be too much "young" talent there for TD to develop his
potential. I'm not saying he shouldn't pay his dues, I'm just not sure he'll get the opportunity to
do that with FB.

-T

[Fred Marx]

> My thought was that Fasso Bortolo has so much talent, that TD would have a hard time making the
> squad for big races. He'd end up ridding second tier races against the same (or lower) competition
> that he raced against in the US. I would have thought that there'd be a squad that would be
> willing to sign him and let him ride some of the bigger races as a second "protected" rider, or
> set him up for a stage win in a grand tour. I don't see that happening with FB. If Basso and
> Pozzato stick around, it would seem that there would be too much "young" talent there for TD to
> develop his potential. I'm not saying he shouldn't pay his dues, I'm just not sure he'll get the
> opportunity to do that with FB.

Take a look through the last few days at cyclingnnews.com and notice that Basso will likely go to
CSC.... Bartoli is shopping, Ivanov has gone to T-Mobile, Pozzato is sticking around so far as is
Peta but the rest of em are movin' on or are domestique types not likely to place in big races, or
as in the case of one A Gonzales just suck.

[Jean-Yves Hervé]

In article <t5x3b.7004$5E.5679@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>,
"Tom Schulenburg" <tschulenYour@Hatpacbell.net> wrote:

> My thought was that Fasso Bortolo has so much talent, that TD would have a hard time making the
> squad for big races. He'd end up ridding second tier races against the same (or lower) competition
> that he raced against in the US. I would have thought that there'd be a squad that would be
> willing to sign him and let him ride some of the bigger races as a second "protected" rider, or
> set him up for a stage win in a grand tour.

Some riders are known as super special before they even turn pro (Anquetil, Merckx, Hinault in the
past, Ullrich more recently). Others take years to mature while serving as domestiques (Indurain is
the most obvious example of this kind). Any DS will see right away if a youg rider is super special
and use him accordingly. If he is more of the "need nurturing and maturing" kind, then Fassa Bortolo
is probably a very good choice: They obviously have an interest in nurturing talent, otherwise they
wouldn't have bet on Ivan Basso and Sven Montgomery when they were just promising your riders.

jyh.

--
=====================================================================
jean-yves herve' /\ Department of Computer Science \/ e-mail --> jyh@cs.uri.edu and Statistics /\
University of Rhode Island \/ Tel. --> (401) 874-4400 Kingston, RI 02881-0816 /\ Fax. --> (401)
874-4617 USA \/
=====================================================================

[Nick Burns]

"jean-yves hervé" <jyh@cs.uri.edu> wrote in message

>
> Some riders are known as super special before they even turn pro (Anquetil, Merckx, Hinault in the
> past, Ullrich more recently). Others take years to mature while serving as domestiques (Indurain
> is the most obvious example of this kind).

You are SO WRONG. Indurain was picked (based on lab tests) to be a future Tour winner from
1985-1986. He needed to drop weight without losing power and Conconi laid out a 5 year plan to make
him a Tour winner. Padilla did the detail planning and it turned out exactly as expected. Maybe you
are speaking from a fan perspective.

[Richard Adams]

David N. Welton wrote:

> Richard Adams <ackthpt@concentric.net> writes:
>
>
>>I didn't feel I berated anyone, I simply further poked fun at them. The sad part for an
>>all-arounder of Basso's calibre is that he's apparently on the wrong team and only had two
>>comrades left at the end of the race. Probably why he's in advanced talks with CSC, the better
>>to be on a team which contests more than the last 500m of a stage, considering where his
>>capacities lie.
>
>
> You apparently don't follow European professional racing if you think that of Fassa Bortolo and
> Giancarlo Ferretti, although admittedly they haven't had a stellar year.
>

On the contrary, Petacchi has had a watershed year, and we should see him go for as many stages as
he feels like in Spain. What's a team to do when a stellar sprinter suddenly emerges from within
their ranks? Support him, of course, but what is left to languish? Remember the 2001 TdF tug-o-war
within Telekom? Who do you support, your sprinter or your GC contender? With a limited number of
riders to support two goals, it's nice to have a deep enough team (which FB does) to support them,
but how much do they throw behind AP which detracts from supporting Aitor? Worst to come of it would
be failure on both accounts, which happens.

[Richard Adams]

Fred Marx wrote:

>
>> A lieutenant to Basso is the only way I see this. Someone to look after him after Cipo
>
>
> Basso is talking to CSC....TH rumours to be true? we'll soon know....
>

Read that on CN and it slipped my mind. Maybe FB will make Danielson their new shining hope for GC
and trAitor Gonzales can abandon him, too, in his hour of need, just before that two year contract
expires and he goes to Bianchi (to pull the same stunt on Jan in 2005.)

[Ronde Chumpion]

"Bob" <c.castawaybob2@verizon.net> wrote
> I suppose you can ride your bicycle up Mount Washington i less than 49:25? I really find it
> amazing how people are so smart when it comes to a persons ability! Maybe next year I'll see you
> peddle you big **** up the rock pile

^^^To Which The Ronde Chumpion replies.....^^^

Bob, Bob, Bob......

WHERE shall I begin. First; What is it that is so amazing about people (like me) who are so smart
about peoples abilities anyway? Tom can't control his bike very well. I'm sure he can climb very
well. What happens on all the other roads? And what difference would it make in this discussion how
fast I do Mount Washington in? Read my post, douchebag. He will amaze us once a year on a hill
climb. A Genting Highlands, Mount Washington, Mont Ventoux, who gives a crap. What about the other
100 races there going to run him through. BOTTLE DUTY. That's where we see the character of the
man. Pena did bottles in Yellow. TD won't ever stoop that low. He's SO above that. Burned out
before you figure any of what I say out. Moron.

What do have to say to that?