The old gel is lame - again, time to take her out back... (plus questions about a new bike)

[Alex Willmer]

Hi all

This Saturday was an unlucky day for cyclists around here, I took a ride into the city centre, along
the towpath. On the way in I came across a bedragled gentleman climbing out of the canal, he'd come
off his bike (he wasn't hurt, other than some scratches) but the bike was not recovered. On the way
home, about 100m downstream my rear derailleur got caught in the spokes, so the chain is snapped,
the bracket bent and the derailleur is pointing upwards and backwards!

I've been thinking about a new one for a while, the parts will cost enough & I since can't do the
repair myself (nothing to bend the derailleur bracket back), it's time to put the old gel - a
Raleigh Pioneer Trail hybrid - down, or out to pasture.

Here are my aims for the new bike:
- Approx £250-350 (400 for a _really_ impressive bike and/or deal)
- Rigid
- Mainly urban commuting use, with canal path and local park also
- Gearing mainly for tarmac usage
- Hybrid style (Ie frame & tyres halfway between a mountain & road bike)
- Mount points for mudguards & maybe a pannier rack
- As low maintenance as possible (ideally just rinse and wipe :-)

Something along the lines of an Edinburgh Contour, Claud Butler Urban 500, Carrera Crossfire, Dawes
Discovery or Specialized Cirrus(?). At this point, I'm extremely open to persuasion, and I'll try
them out before spending anything.

However there's plenty I'm not sure of. So I'd like to ask the group a few questions:

1. Suspension seatposts, are they worth it? Any brands to avoid?
2. Aluminium frames, do they have any bearing on wear and tear (might they break more easily, or
corrode less)?
3. Disc brakes, can they be bolted on afterwards, or are modifications needed? Would they be
worthwhile?
4. Does the size of the wheel make a noticeable difference to the ride (old gel had 700c, whatever
that means)?
5. What U-lock/chain would you recommend?
6. Does any pannier brand work with any rear rack?
7. I remember seeing a luggage rack that merely bolted to the seatpost, has anyone seen this for
sale? Where?
8. If (as I suspect) my old bike is not worth anything secondhand (esp considering the damage), I
won't be too bothered about selling it. Are there any charities or worthy causes that would
want/accept it?
9. Seen any good deals lately?

Sorry for packing so many questions into one post, thankyou for your help, you've been so great in
the past (with mirrorball helmets and the like).

Regards

Alex (in Birmingham)

[Pete Biggs]

Alex Willmer wrote:

> 7. I remember seeing a luggage rack that merely bolted to the seatpost, has anyone seen this for
> sale? Where?

There are several seatpost racks on the market. Not as strong and stable as a proper rack but
they're a reasonable option if you can't fit a 3 or 4-point-fixing rack.

I use a Zefal Quick Rack (seatpost job) because it's cheap, lightweight
(332g) and can be detached and refitted quickly. It's only good for very light loads (flexes
ridiculously with any more load than 1.5kg) and can obstruct back of legs if using a narrow
saddle well setback on the seatpost! Great for carrying a few clothes on a road bike and also
acts as a crude mudgaurd. That's about it. Available from Halfords.

The Piumi one is rubbish. I broke two of them!

The Topeak ones look very well made and get good reviews. From bike shops and some online dealers -
sorry, can't remember which ones now.

Alternative options are _bags_ that fit to seatpost or saddle.

But best of all is a proper conventional back rack - with or without panniers. All panniers should
fit but some may obstruct heels on some bikes/racks.

~PB

[Peter Clinch]

Alex Willmer wrote:

> Something along the lines of an Edinburgh Contour, Claud Butler Urban 500, Carrera Crossfire,
> Dawes Discovery or Specialized Cirrus(?).

The Ridgebacks look okay too, so add them into the audition list.

> 1. Suspension seatposts, are they worth it?

It depends what you'll be riding over. Do you ever come off a ride thinking your bum is a bit on the
sore side due to pothole pounding? If so, quite possibly an improvement having one. And the more
upright the riding position, and thus the less weight on your arms, the more effect it'll have.

> 2. Aluminium frames, do they have any bearing on wear and tear (might they break more easily, or
> corrode less)?

It's too variable frame to frame to give a sweeping one size fits all answer. Generally the case
that a well made frame, whatever the material, will last better than a so-so one. Al doesn't rust,
but it does corrode. Answer in both cases is good finishing, which comes back to "well made". In
short, I wouldn't particularly worry about one or the other unless you come down to an "if all other
things are equal" point.

> 3. Disc brakes, can they be bolted on afterwards, or are modifications needed? Would they be
> worthwhile?

Discs need a disc mounting boss fitted at the rear triangle and on the fork. A good pair of disc
brakes is a lot better than a good pair of Vs, but note how serious machinery (i.e., Cannondale &
Specialized MTBs) get up to quite high prices before they switch from Vs to discs. Cheap 'n cheerful
ones don't look to be worth it, with money better spent elsewhere (frame and transmission, saddle,
better lights etc.) If you want to retrofit a Proper disc at a later date and you don't have bosses,
just replacing the fork with a disc compatible one would presumably be an option. But unless you're
doing off-road daftness, riding at speed in the wet or with heavy loads it's pretty questionable
whether they're worth it unless you have money to burn.

> 4. Does the size of the wheel make a noticeable difference to the ride (old gel had 700c, whatever
> that means)?

There won't be *too* much difference between 26" and 700c in practice. The slightly larger 700c will
roll over bumps and holes a little better but be slightly more unwieldy for close manoeuvring, but
either should work fine for this.

> 5. What U-lock/chain would you recommend?

I use a Kryptonite, and nobody's nicked my bike in 14 years using one yet. The more expensive ones
do look as if they use harder steels, so should give more peace of mind. Note that if you have QR
front wheels you'll want something to keep that safer as well. Whatever U you get, make sure it's
long enough to get through the back wheel, main frame *and* round a suitably invariant piece of
street furniture too.

> 6. Does any pannier brand work with any rear rack?

Near as dammit. My rack is oversize 12mm and it won't take quite a few, but this is quite
exceptional and for a typical rack (e.g., Bor Yueh's cheap but good Blackburn clones) they'll take
any pannier you want to put on.

> 7. I remember seeing a luggage rack that merely bolted to the seatpost, has anyone seen this for
> sale? Where?

These won't support hefty loads nearly as well, and there aren't necessarily going to be vertical
struts to stop panniers slapping in against the wheel. Also look at things like Carradice SQR, where
the bag/carrier all clips to the seatpost. See http://www.carradice.co.uk/sqr-products.htm

HTH, Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net p.j.clinch@dundee.ac.uk
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

[Cicero]

"Alex Willmer" <alex@moreati.org.uk> wrote in message
news:2s83b.5999$di4.57461990@news-text.cableinet.net...
> Hi all
>
<snipped>

> However there's plenty I'm not sure of. So I'd like to ask the group a few questions: <snipped>

> 3. Disc brakes, can they be bolted on afterwards, or are modifications needed? Would they be
> worthwhile?
<snipped>

> Regards
>
> Alex (in Birmingham)
============
I made some enquiries about disc brakes and the general impression I got was that they're quite
tricky to retro fit. I then looked for drum brakes (hub brakes) which seem a much better bet for my
immediate needs (ponderous adult trike). I've just taken delivery of a Sturmey Archer drum brake
from SJS cycles and I'm just off to take it to be built into a new rim.Your cycling needs seem to be
somewhat similar to mine so why not consider a drum brake(s)?

Have a look at: www.sjscycles.com - look under Hubs / internal brake / gear hubs etc. - Sturmey
Archer - £39.99p

[Chris French]

In message <w0l3b.6459$tn2.61678646@news-text.cableinet.net>, Cicero
<sheldrake@hellfire.co.uk> writes
>
>"Alex Willmer" <alex@moreati.org.uk> wrote in message
>news:2s83b.5999$di4.57461990@news-text.cableinet.net...
>> Hi all
>>
><snipped>
>
>> However there's plenty I'm not sure of. So I'd like to ask the group a few questions: <snipped>
>
>> 3. Disc brakes, can they be bolted on afterwards, or are modifications needed? Would they be
>> worthwhile?

>I made some enquiries about disc brakes and the general impression I got was that they're quite
>tricky to retro fit.

They are due to the mountings required.

>I then looked for drum brakes (hub brakes) which seem a much better bet for my immediate needs
>(ponderous adult trike). I've just taken delivery of a Sturmey Archer drum brake from SJS cycles
>and I'm just off to take it to be built into a new rim.
>
>Have a look at: www.sjscycles.com - look under Hubs / internal brake / gear hubs etc. - Sturmey
>Archer - £39.99p
>
Yep I have a drum brake on the front of my utility/town bike. Though mine is a Sachs. I used to have
a coaster brake on the rear in Sachs 7 speed hub gear - I really like it. I got mine From Derek
shackles at Roman Road.

But to get more/lower gears I changed over to a Shimano Nexus with a Roller brake. The brake works
fine though I prefer the drum brake of the front.

They need very little maintenance -my front brake is still on it's original pads. And in wet weather
they are good in traffic as you don't get that lag before the pads bite - and in snow they keep on
working rather than clogging up with snow .
--
Chris French, Leeds

[Richard Goodman]

"Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message
news:bijbhd$a6smq$1@ID-144931.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> There are several seatpost racks on the market. Not as strong and stable as a proper rack but
> they're a reasonable option if you can't fit a 3 or 4-point-fixing rack.
>

Has anyone tried fitting a standard rack to a bike with no eyelets/braze ons for it using P-clips
clamped around the stays? Does this work ok or might it be inadvisable for any reason?

Rich

[Panda]

"Richard Goodman" <rsk@NOSPAM.homechoice.co.uk> wrote in message
news:b664d2d3a973f2a190e8d8ec44bca64d@news.teranews.com...
> "Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message
> news:bijbhd$a6smq$1@ID-144931.news.uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > There are several seatpost racks on the market. Not as strong and
stable
> > as a proper rack but they're a reasonable option if you can't fit a 3 or 4-point-fixing rack.
> >
>
> Has anyone tried fitting a standard rack to a bike with no eyelets/braze
ons
> for it using P-clips clamped around the stays? Does this work ok or might it be inadvisable for
> any reason?
>
> Rich
>
>

friend of mine used eyelets at the bottom and p-clips at the top with success, we even managed a
weeks touring round holland. never any complaints from him

panda

[Johnb]

panda wrote:

> "Richard Goodman" <rsk@NOSPAM.homechoice.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:b664d2d3a973f2a190e8d8ec44bca64d@news.teranews.com...
> > "Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message
> > news:bijbhd$a6smq$1@ID-144931.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > >
> > > There are several seatpost racks on the market. Not as strong and
> stable
> > > as a proper rack but they're a reasonable option if you can't fit a 3 or 4-point-fixing rack.
> > >
> >
> > Has anyone tried fitting a standard rack to a bike with no eyelets/braze
> ons
> > for it using P-clips clamped around the stays? Does this work ok or might it be inadvisable for
> > any reason?
> >
> > Rich
> >
> >
>
> friend of mine used eyelets at the bottom and p-clips at the top with success, we even managed a
> weeks touring round holland. never any complaints from him

I did similar a few years back, using P-clips top and bottom of seat stays on a close clearance road
bike and spent a fortnight cycle-camping/yh in Israel.

There's no good reason why it shouldn't work if the fittings are fixed well enough and you use a
good rack.

John B

[Graeme Dods]

> <snip>he'd come off his bike (he wasn't hurt, other than some scratches) but the bike was not
> recovered.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ <snip>
> I've been thinking about a new one for a while, the parts will cost enough & I since can't do the
> repair myself

Is it that I am such an total cheap skate, or did anyone else notice the solution was in the
original post all along. Buy (or borrow) some swimming goggles and a bit of rope, go for a swim and
haul the bike out. There's bound to be some salvageable bits on it (after a good clean up).

Canals? They're just a wetter version of skips and can be the source of many a useful bit
of junk :-)

Have fun!

Graeme

[Jim Price]

JohnB wrote:

>
> panda wrote:
>
>
>>"Richard Goodman" <rsk@NOSPAM.homechoice.co.uk> wrote in message
>>news:b664d2d3a973f2a190e8d8ec44bca64d@news.teranews.com...
>>
>>>"Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message
>>>news:bijbhd$a6smq$1@ID-144931.news.uni-berlin.de... Has anyone tried fitting a standard rack to a
>>>bike with no eyelets/braze ons for it using P-clips clamped around the stays? Does this work ok
>>>or might it be inadvisable for any reason?
>>
>>friend of mine used eyelets at the bottom and p-clips at the top with success, we even managed a
>>weeks touring round holland. never any complaints from him
>
> I did similar a few years back, using P-clips top and bottom of seat stays on a close clearance
> road bike and spent a fortnight cycle-camping/yh in Israel.
>
> There's no good reason why it shouldn't work if the fittings are fixed well enough and you use a
> good rack.

I did the C2C Newcastle to Carlisle (yes, I know that's against the prevailing wind now..) last year
with just such a set up, making sure there were bits of rubber around the frame to protect it from
the metal of the P-clips. The P-clips were fine, but we did an opt-out off road on the lower part of
Hartside, and one of the welds on the alloy rack gave way. This was by the rear hub, and nothing to
do with the P-clips, more to do with having full camping gear of a not-very-light variety in the
panniers and riding downhill offroad fast.

--
Jim Price

http://www.jimprice.dsl.pipex.com (http://www.jimprice.dsl.pipex.com/)

Conscientious objection is hard work in an economic war.

[James Hodson]

On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 20:24:30 GMT, Alex Willmer <alex@moreati.org.uk> wrote:

[SNIP - sorry to hear that, BTW]

>Here are my aims for the new bike:
>- Approx £250-350 (400 for a _really_ impressive bike and/or deal)
>- Rigid
>- Mainly urban commuting use, with canal path and local park also
>- Gearing mainly for tarmac usage
>- Hybrid style (Ie frame & tyres halfway between a mountain & road bike)
>- Mount points for mudguards & maybe a pannier rack
>- As low maintenance as possible (ideally just rinse and wipe :-)
>
>1. Suspension seatposts, are they worth it? Any brands to avoid?
>2. Aluminium frames, do they have any bearing on wear and tear (might they break more easily, or
> corrode less)?
>3. Disc brakes, can they be bolted on afterwards, or are modifications needed? Would they be
> worthwhile?
>4. Does the size of the wheel make a noticeable difference to the ride (old gel had 700c, whatever
> that means)?
>5. What U-lock/chain would you recommend?
>6. Does any pannier brand work with any rear rack?
>7. I remember seeing a luggage rack that merely bolted to the seatpost, has anyone seen this for
> sale? Where?
>8. If (as I suspect) my old bike is not worth anything secondhand (esp considering the damage), I
> won't be too bothered about selling it. Are there any charities or worthy causes that would
> want/accept it?
>9. Seen any good deals lately?

This sounds very much like my rigid Trek 4300. AFAIR, I paid £300 - not including the cost of
rebuilding the front end a year or so later following a ... erm ... "mishap" :-(

The bike doesn't have a suspension seatpost but the saddle that came with the bike is most comfy for
me whether or not I use slimmer tyres or the large knobblies that came as standard.

The frame is aluminium and is fine.

There are no disk brakes but the V-brakes are plenty powerful.

The 26" wheels are fine and have yet to buckle in any way - apart from the front one - see the
"mishap" commment. Think bike/stationary vehicle interaction resulting in squashed donought front
wheel (and knackered shoulder).

I use a cheap cable lock for regular use. If entering dodgy areas such as downtown Worthing I use
both the cable lock and a U-lock - one on the frame/one wheel, t'other on t'other wheel/frame (can't
recall the makes of the locks).

There are holes in the frame for the fitting of racks. See <http://www.myra-simon.com/bike/> (http://www.myra-simon.com/bike/)
and browse.

The bike is geared OK for me for tarmac use, especially when I've fitted skinny tyres. Admittedly,
it could be geared higher at the top end. But, for my use, it's OK.

Low maintenance? What's maintnance? Wash? Rinse? Wipe? What?

Sadly, the current Trek 4300s come with cheap and non-too-good front suspension forks. However, I
had my bike's font end replaced after the "mishap or incident" with another rigid fork. And that was
in the time when new 4300s came with bouncy forks.

James (not in Birmingham)

--
"Sorry mate, I didn't see you" is not a satisfactory excuse.