data on accordion effect in crits

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does anyone have any data on the difference in power between riding a crit tucked in nicely at the front of the peloton or riding at the back getting reamed by the accordion effect?

does anyone have any data on the difference in power between riding a crit tucked in nicely at the front of the peloton or riding at the back getting reamed by the accordion effect?Uhl Albert (http://www.uhlalbert.com/couple/2007/07/wells-fargo-twi.html) has an interesting take on riding crits at the back. He can probably add to this discussion.

Uhl Albert (http://www.uhlalbert.com/couple/2007/07/wells-fargo-twi.html) has an interesting take on riding crits at the back. He can probably add to this discussion.Yeah, on a wide open flat course, if you're at the front you can keep the wattage steady, even through the corners. If you're in the middle or back, you'll be braking for the corners, then sprinting out of them. But if you're at the very back (as I describe in my blog entry) you can just let gaps open before the corners then keep your speed through them. You'll still have to accelerate out of the corners, but not nearly as much as riders who try keep the same distance from the wheel in front of them.

Here's the graph of the last 15 minutes of the crit. I got dropped in the last four minutes due to cramping, but you can see that my power was much smoother. I did rotate a couple times with a few other stragglers, but if I was alone I could have pedaled through every corner and would look more like a TT effort.

But if you're at the very back (as I describe in my blog entry) you can just let gaps open before the corners then keep your speed through them. You'll still have to accelerate out of the corners, but not nearly as much as riders who try keep the same distance from the wheel in front of them.
Yep, getting pounded is the result of fighting to maintain position. Once you eliminate that struggle (either by being on the front or far on the back) you can ride nearly as smooth as a solo effort.

How do you win a crit by riding at the back?

How do you win a crit by riding at the back?
Conserve energy and attack in the last few laps?

Yeah, on a wide open flat course, if you're at the front you can keep the wattage steady, even through the corners. If you're in the middle or back, you'll be braking for the corners, then sprinting out of them. But if you're at the very back (as I describe in my blog entry) you can just let gaps open before the corners then keep your speed through them. You'll still have to accelerate out of the corners, but not nearly as much as riders who try keep the same distance from the wheel in front of them...

yeah sure letting off the gas a little so you don't have to brake means you end up doing less work.. you just time stepping off the gas so that you end up on a wheel and going the same speeds as others as you get to the apex of the corner... but staying near the front (not on the front) also means you don't slow down as much and so don't have to do that acceleration you are talking about so that is even better.

the other thing that people don't seem to realize to do is to just gear down through the corner.. you've just slowed down, so you should gear down appropriately to. it's a lot easier to sit and just rev up the gear and then gear up when you're accelerated than it is to stand and grind away after a corner. i see people huffing and puffing and getting dropped and i calmly rev up my smaller gear seated... it's a really simple easy way to make crits accelerations WAY more bearable... just try it some time, works like a charm

Conserve energy and attack in the last few laps?Meanwhile the winning break is cleaning up leaving you to sprint for 5th place....
I'd rather be where the action is;)

How do you win a crit by riding at the back?
Not saying you can win from back there, just agreeing with Uhl that the huge fluctuations in power are not from the corners/accordian effect per se, but rather the need to close gaps quickly to keep others from filling them that's the culprit. If *everyone* would ride smoothly through the corners without diving in and cutting people off, then it would be a completely different ride.

Not saying you can win from back there, just agreeing with Uhl that the huge fluctuations in power are not from the corners/accordian effect per se, but rather the need to close gaps quickly to keep others from filling them that's the culprit. If *everyone* would ride smoothly through the corners without diving in and cutting people off, then it would be a completely different ride.
Your point's well taken and this is probably chicken/egg stuff, but then it would be be a completely different ride -- it wouldn't be a criterium.

Not saying you can win from back there, just agreeing with Uhl that the huge fluctuations in power are not from the corners/accordian effect per se, but rather the need to close gaps quickly to keep others from filling them that's the culprit. If *everyone* would ride smoothly through the corners without diving in and cutting people off, then it would be a completely different ride.
not sure what your trying to say.. it's because of the corner that people need to fight for position... 10 side by side riders go down the straight just fine, but can't get through a corner at speed together so some need to slow down and get pushed back... isn't that the point? to my eyes it is precisely the corner that causes this to happen... yeah sure if everyone just kept their place and never moved up or back and the pack was only 1 or two rider wide then sure the fluctuations wouldn't happen but that's not reality... in the real world it's a race and people try to take advantage when and where they can... maintaining and even agressively fighting for your position is a necessary part of the game some times... who cares if it caused people behind me to have to work harder.. how is that my problem? it's a crit, it's not a TTT.. that's the nature of the beast.

How do you win a crit by riding at the back?

Move up at the end of the race.

"Tailgunning" can be an effective tactic *if* you know no breaks will stick and/or have a team strong enough to ensure this. In the US, I've seen Ivan Dominguez do this and win pro races, literally riding last wheel until the last 10-15 minutes of the race, then moving into position for the finale. Of course, Dominguez also has been known to sprint (and win) on the hoods so perhaps he is exceptional. :p But I've also seen it done in lowly Cat 3 races - sit at the back to avoid the early carnage and doomed breaks, save your energy rather than fighting for position when it doesn't matter, move up with 10 to go.

However, I'd never try this in a Masters 35+ race, where more often than not a break goes and stays away until the finish.

Move up at the end of the race.

"Tailgunning" can be an effective tactic *if* you know no breaks will stick and/or have a team strong enough to ensure this. In the US, I've seen Ivan Dominguez do this and win pro races, literally riding last wheel until the last 10-15 minutes of the race, then moving into position for the finale. Of course, Dominguez also has been known to sprint (and win) on the hoods so perhaps he is exceptional. :p But I've also seen it done in lowly Cat 3 races - sit at the back to avoid the early carnage and doomed breaks, save your energy rather than fighting for position when it doesn't matter, move up with 10 to go.

However, I'd never try this in a Masters 35+ race, where more often than not a break goes and stays away until the finish.
Crits here in Europe always seem to be fast enough so that it's single file 90% of the time.....ALWAYS single file on the straits. usually a break goes clear after 30 mins (1/4 of the race) and it often will lap the peloton before the end of the race.

I've just started racing elite level at crits and I usually find myself at the back due to inexperience and nervousness at this level, and I am getting reamed by the accordion effect although I can just about finish the race. I'm beginning to really want to move to the front and I was wondering just how different the intensity would be up there.

Crits here in Europe always seem to be fast enough so that it's single file 90% of the time.....ALWAYS single file on the straits. usually a break goes clear after 30 mins (1/4 of the race) and it often will lap the peloton before the end of the race.

I've just started racing elite level at crits and I usually find myself at the back due to inexperience and nervousness at this level, and I am getting reamed by the accordion effect although I can just about finish the race. I'm beginning to really want to move to the front and I was wondering just how different the intensity would be up there.if it's single file there is no accordian effect... what you are experiencing is just the decelelerations - accelerations meaning you need to up your FTP and/or AnCap probably FTP if your races are strung out as you say... but at the front even when things are strung out is much smoother but you will take a little more wind.. i find it's actually easier though at the front... the other thing is to just relax and try to maintain your position... fighting it just makes you use you energy unnecessarily... the only time you move up is if the guy in front is getting dropped or if the peleton slows... if your just hanging on never try to move up or accelerate past anyone at any other time but these... just relax and hold that wheel and be smooth as possible.

if it's single file there is no accordian effect... what you are experiencing is just the decelelerations - accelerations meaning you need to up your FTP and/or AnCap probably FTP if your races are strung out as you say... but at the front even when things are strung out is much smoother but you will take a little more wind.. i find it's actually easier though at the front... the other thing is to just relax and try to maintain your position... fighting it just makes you use you energy unnecessarily... the only time you move up is if the guy in front is getting dropped or if the peleton slows... if your just hanging on never try to move up or accelerate past anyone at any other time but these... just relax and hold that wheel and be smooth as possible.
I respectfully disagree - if you have a long file of 80 riders going around a technical course, maybe the first 20 guys go through a tight corner without braking, but as you go down the file guys start to brake, and at the back you almost come to a standstill, before having to sprint like a dervish to get back up to speed on the strait.

I agree it wouldn't be as promounced as US style "side by side" crits, but there is a definite "unpleasantness" associated with riding near the back.

I respectfully disagree - if you have a long file of 80 riders going around a technical course, maybe the first 20 guys go through a tight corner without braking, but as you go down the file guys start to brake, and at the back you almost come to a standstill, before having to sprint like a dervish to get back up to speed on the strait.

I agree it wouldn't be as promounced as US style "side by side" crits, but there is a definite "unpleasantness" associated with riding near the back.now that i think about it, it probably is as you say... if the group is very large and lined out.. bunching up just makes it even worse.. kinda like the effect that happens on the highway when there is an accident off beside the road... everyone just slowing down a little bit to rubber neck, one after another adds up... i can see it.

I have been at the back of too many crits. The technigue works really well on wide open courses where you don't have to touch the brakes. However, if the course is technical and there is a big field, you are just going to get creamed riding at the back.

In the US, I've seen Ivan Dominguez do this and win pro races, literally riding last wheel until the last 10-15 minutes of the race, then moving into position for the finale.Guess who was at the back of the pack during much of the Wells Fargo Twilight Criterium this year? The same person that won it!

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road.php?id=road/2007/jul07/wellsfargo07

To reiterate...this is just a technique to save energy if the course lends itself. Doing it in this year's event I only averaged 244 watts (253 norm), which is pretty darn wimpy for me (72kg). But I was racing fatigued, that's why I had to "tailgun-it".

Last year it was much more fun banging away at the front for the first 23 minutes...when I was taken down (still jumped back in and finished 30th, though!). But I wasn't racing with a power meter back then, so I can't give the OP an exact answer to his original question.

One question regarding crit style racing in the US. Do you get points every several laps like in track racing or is the oen who crosses the line first the winner?

One question regarding crit style racing in the US. Do you get points every several laps like in track racing or is the oen who crosses the line first the winner?the vast, vast majority are 1st person over the line is the winner, but the odd one is a points race but most have interim sprint prime laps for money..