Increasing L.T.

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Will cruise intervals increase or move your L.T. (Cruise intervals = 4 to 10 beats bellow L.T. two sets of 30 min) Or is training at or above your L.T. the only way??

At or above your LT would be most effective. There would be some benefit riding below.

Riding at or above your LT stresses the factors that cause LT, hence they adapt and LT increases.

Riding at LT is quite a low intensity (for me ~150 bpm when my max is 195 bpm measured in a lab) and can be maintained for a long time (e.g. 4 hours would be difficult but possible) with a good nutritional regime. Most people do this training too hard, hence a reluctance to do it.

Your cruise intervals are therefore likely to be above your LT and good enough for raising your LT. The only real way to determine LT is in a lab, which unfortunatly we don't all have access to.

Originally posted by Bob West
Will cruise intervals increase or move your L.T. (Cruise intervals = 4 to 10 beats bellow L.T. two sets of 30 min) Or is training at or above your L.T. the only way??

I'm assuming that you actually mean TT power (as opposed to LT), because as 2Lap mentions LT is quite a low intensity?

Assuming you do mean TT power, then training at or above LT will increase TT power.

Additionally (and i may have this wrong) i though you used a power meter for training? If you do, then you can pretty much dispense with HR as it's pretty useless once you can accurately measure power.

Ric

Originally posted by ricstern
I'm assuming that you actually mean TT power (as opposed to LT), because as 2Lap mentions LT is quite a low intensity?

Assuming you do mean TT power, then training at or above LT will increase TT power.

Additionally (and i may have this wrong) i though you used a power meter for training? If you do, then you can pretty much dispense with HR as it's pretty useless once you can accurately measure power.

Ric

Ric, Do you define TT power as the Average or Normalised (Aka Dr. A Coggan) power for either an hour or 40Km TT? Once you have established TT Power, to increase TT power what would be the % power to train at ( e.g. 100 - 110%) and for how long should such intervals be done (i.e. 20 mins - hence the infamous 2x20s that seems to be a favorite of other power forums).

R.

Originally posted by RPLewis
Ric, Do you define TT power as the Average or Normalised (Aka Dr. A Coggan) power for either an hour or 40Km TT? Once you have established TT Power, to increase TT power what would be the % power to train at ( e.g. 100 - 110%) and for how long should such intervals be done (i.e. 20 mins - hence the infamous 2x20s that seems to be a favorite of other power forums).

R.

I define TT power as the average power of around a 1-hr TT like Andy does. I don't normalise the power in the same way as Andy suggests, i use my own method (which results in a similar normalised power as Andy's give or take one or two watts, which for the purposes of training makes little or no difference).

In terms of training, it would depend on the fitness of the rider, the goals, where they are in their training, and whether there had been a break of a while since their last effort. The power would also depend on whether the session was indoors (and a narrower range can be kept) or whether outdoors. I use like Andy, the same sort of range e.g., 90 to 100+% depending on the above, and increase the power say 5 to 10 W in a similar manner e.g., every 7 to 21 days.

The duration will be dependent upon the above too (but i use 15 to 30 mins) depending on what i want to achieve.

Ric

Just to clear up what I meant as far as L.T. I consider my L.T. as my TT heart rate. My max is 181 and my L.T. is 164. I arrived at 164 for my L.T. as a result of a conconi test. If I go above 164 my breathing changes (deeper). I'm in the process of buying a ergomo as I see the light as far as training with power is concerned, thx to Rick's site and this one. So for the moment I'm not sure what kind of power I'm producing but I can't wait to find out. Maybe I'll be able to brag, haha.
Anyway, I always thought that if I did cruise intervals 4 - 10 beats below 164 that I would boost my L.T. The bonus, so I thought was that I didn't have to go to my L.T. to achieve it. Another bonus was that after doing a hard club ride on Sunday and hard 5 minute (175bpm held for the duration) intervals on Tuesday That Thursday would be a bit easier by doing two 30 minute cruise intervals. I guess I have to pick it up a bit and reduce the duration. Nothing is for free right

Originally posted by Bob West
Just to clear up what I meant as far as L.T. I consider my L.T. as my TT heart rate. My max is 181 and my L.T. is 164. I arrived at 164 for my L.T. as a result of a conconi test. If I go above 164 my breathing changes (deeper). I'm in the process of buying a ergomo as I see the light as far as training with power is concerned, thx to Rick's site and this one. So for the moment I'm not sure what kind of power I'm producing but I can't wait to find out. Maybe I'll be able to brag, haha.
Anyway, I always thought that if I did cruise intervals 4 - 10 beats below 164 that I would boost my L.T. The bonus, so I thought was that I didn't have to go to my L.T. to achieve it. Another bonus was that after doing a hard club ride on Sunday and hard 5 minute (175bpm held for the duration) intervals on Tuesday That Thursday would be a bit easier by doing two 30 minute cruise intervals. I guess I have to pick it up a bit and reduce the duration. Nothing is for free right

Opps! I've obviously mixed you up with someone else as i was under the impression you already had a meter! sorry about that.

The Conconi test doesn't actually work, and reviews of it by other scientists have decided it isn't accurate...

If you want to know what your average HR is in a TT then ride a TT and calculate it. However, as i've previously mentioned on here at a given effort (e.g., TT power) my HR can vary up to *20 b/min* depending on what training i've done recently, what i've done that day, fatigue, recovery, etc.

Once you have a power meter, HR becomes pretty much redundant. Thus, rather than saying i'll ride at (e.g.) 10 b/min below TT HR, you'll say i'll ride at 95% TT power.

Finally, when myself and 2Lap refer to LT, we're talking about the scientific meaning, which is a 1mmol/L increase in lactate over baseline levels (around zone 2 to 3 in most people's books) and thus, this effort can be kept up for a long period of time (e.g., 4 hrs). When we talk about TT efforts, we'll actually say TT (or in some cases 2Lap mentions MLSS)

Hope that helps,
Ric

Well thanks again for tutoring me. It appears I have much to learn yet. I'm not sure what 1mmol/L is, if wasn't so curious I'd be afraid to say so. You guy's are causing me to rethink to much, not a bad thing though.
I'm thinking that what I concidered my L.T. to be, is a lot higher than what you would concider my L.T. to be. That said, doing my version of cruise intervals would actually be doing intervals in your opinion at or very close to my actual L.T. therefore doing this type of interval would increase my L.T. I hope I said this well, it looks difficult to read.

Originally posted by Bob West
Well thanks again for tutoring me. It appears I have much to learn yet. I'm not sure what 1mmol/L is, if wasn't so curious I'd be afraid to say so.
This is quite an interesting discussion, as for the 1mmol/L here goes...

Lactate (or lactic acid) is measured in mmol/L, at rest and up to your LT your blood lactate is at baseline about 0.5 to 1.5 mmol/L. During a ramp test (a test where exercise intensity is increased gradualy) there comes a point where lactate suddenly increases in the blood this is your LT. Just to check that we have the correct point, we look to see that there has been a 1mmol/L increase above the baseline. If the intensity keeps increasing, blood lactate accumulates at an ever increasing rate until fatique and will often be in excess of 10 mmol/L.
Originally posted by Bob West
I'm thinking that what I concidered my L.T. to be, is a lot higher than what you would concider my L.T. to be.
Yes thats true
Originally posted by Bob West
That said, doing my version of cruise intervals would actually be doing intervals in your opinion at or very close to my actual L.T. therefore doing this type of interval would increase my L.T. I hope I said this well, it looks difficult to read.
Thats correct, so you really have two options.
(1) Do some long rides at your cruse interval level (you may find that this is still a little to hard for LT); 1.5 hours is a good amount of time to start with as nutrition is not too important. Beyond 1.5 hours you'll need to think about carb intake.
(2) Do the 2x20 minutes at TT pace.
In reality, as LT needs a lab find the TT power and HR are perhaps more useful starting points for working out intensity.

Thx 2lap, I understand. what 0.5 - 1.5 mmol/L means and how it changes at my L.T.

Originally posted by Bob West
Thx 2lap, I understand. what 0.5 - 1.5 mmol/L means and how it changes at my L.T.

Bob you need to get a lactate testing strips talk to george

here is the link

http://www.fact-canada.com/lactatepromain.html

Originally posted by ricstern

Finally, when myself and 2Lap refer to LT, we're talking about the scientific meaning, which is a 1mmol/L increase in lactate over baseline levels (around zone 2 to 3 in most people's books) and thus, this effort can be kept up for a long period of time (e.g., 4 hrs). When we talk about TT efforts, we'll actually say TT (or in some cases 2Lap mentions MLSS)

Hope that helps,
Ric [/B]

Ric- 2 questions. First, what is a general range of where one would expect to find LT power compared to TT/MLSS power? There is obviously a big range between the bottom or zone 2 and the top of zone 3.

Secondly, I had a lab test done (actually several) last year. None involved any blood work but all included gas analysis of expired gases to determine VT, VO2max. One test was a MAP type test. The others were riding a fixed cadence at increasing power. Is there any way to study the data from the gases etc to determine a "scientific LT" power and/or HR?

Originally posted by J-Law
First, what is a general range of where one would expect to find LT power compared to TT/MLSS power?

Secondly, I had a lab test done (actually several) last year. None involved any blood work but all included gas analysis of expired gases to determine VT, VO2max. Is there any way to study the data from the gases etc to determine a "scientific LT" power and/or HR?

One study by Coyle et al. found that during an 'hour of power' test, elite TTers were able to maintain a VO2 that was, on average, 114% of their VO2 at LT. In this study, LT was defined as the intensity at which blood lactate had risen 1 mmol/L above baseline during an incremental exercise test. That's really a somewhat higher exercise intensity than it sounds, however, because 1) the 'baseline' was established during low(er) intensity exercise, not complete rest, 2) venous, not arterial or arterialized, blood lactate was measured, and 3) the test stages were too short to allow for complete equilibration between muscle and blood lactate. As Ric has pointed out, however, it is still a lower intensity than most coaches and athletes tend to think of as "threshold".

LT can be estimated from measurements of respiratory gas exchance, e.g., from changes in Ve/VO2 and Ve/VCO2. In athletes I've done this for, the intensity tends to come out higher than LT as defined above, and closer to their critical power/maximal lactate steady state/functional threshold power/40k TT power.