To all non believers...

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Obsession.
Forward and Buck believe that rejection is the trigger of obsessive love. They state four conditions to help identify it, namely, a painful and all-consuming preoccupation with a real or wished-for lover, an insatiable longing either to possess or be possessed by the target of their obsession, rejection by or physical and/or emotional unavailability of their target, and being driven to behave in self-defeating ways by this rejection or unavailability.
Obsessive lovers believe that only the person they fixate on can make them feel happy and fulfilled.

Saluki/No Pos/Old Ma Manilow/Dog/Bitch/Whatever
Have you been rejected by your Big Boy Lance blow up doll? Is that the source of all your problems? You need to go back to throwing your knickers at Tom and Barry. Remember how that used to fulfill your deep needs.

ROTFL! I love this thread!

Lance did not dope! He trained really hard! Now stop it and leave his Lance-ness alone! He did not test positive! He is clean! I know it!

I love this...

Wait a minute, we have yet another winner!!!!!!! CONGRATULATIONS. They are dropping like flies now. That's two down and a ton to go.

LIVE STRONG!!!!:p :p :p You still haven't explained how it was that Bjarne Riis, like Armstrong, was never removed from the Tour and never suspended either. I answered your question, now you answer mine.

Naw. Isn't this you: nothingnoteworthysweetie1400 ?
Gee, helmut, that kinda hurt...

Aw, man, I got left off two lists. :( :p
Sorry nns1400. I think I forgot a few regulars, I knew this was going to happen. :D

You still haven't explained how it was that Bjarne Riis, like Armstrong, was never removed from the Tour and never suspended either. I answered your question, now you answer mine.
quitsmokingleafer,

Riis admitted to EPO use in 1996, about a half-decade before they could detect it. He then conveniently retired in 2000. That is why he was never removed from the Tour.

On his way to the startup at stage 2 of the 1999 Tour de Suisse, Bjarne Riis hit the curb and crashed. The sustained injuries to his elbow and knee ultimately forced him to retire in the spring of 2000 at the age of 36.

Riis admitted to EPO use in 1996, about a half-decade before they could detect it. He then conveniently retired in 2000. That is why he was never removed from the Tour.
Huh! A half-decade after 1996? So 2001? So in 1999, EPO could not be detected, but testing of that (still-kept) sample after 2001 detects EPO.

Huh!

Obsession.


Saluki/No Pos/Old Ma Manilow/Dog/Bitch/Whatever
Don't forget to add musette to that list. I guess she went nuts when she read that Disco was disbanding and doesn't know what to do with all her Bruyneel posters now.

quitsmokingleafer,

Riis admitted to EPO use in 1996, about a half-decade before they could detect it. He then conveniently retired in 2000. That is why he was never removed from the Tour. So now that we've established that even a Tour winner can dope for years without ever getting caught, let's take it one step further: Basso and Ullrich, among several others, never tested positive for anything either - EPO included - yet we know now that they were doping. So your next assignment is: please explain, in detail, how Basso and Ullrich managed to dope for all of those years and not get caught? Extra marks if you can include "personal doctor/trainer", "autologous", "blood" "stored bags", "transfusion", "EPO", and "microdosing" in the answer.

Got it written down? Good! Now, here's the simple part: just substitute "Armstrong" for "Basso/Ullrich" and "Ferrari" for "Fuentes", and there you go! Question answered.

Gee, helmut, that kinda hurt...My bad. No offense. That's No_'s interpretation, not mine... except the "sweetie" part.

Oh my... I'm such an internet lush.

My bad. No offense. That's No_'s interpretation, not mine... except the "sweetie" part.

Oh my... I'm such an internet lush.
Then all is forgiven. :)

i can understand why lance wouldnt want those samples from 99 to be tested, it would only take on person that has the opportunity to come in contact with them over the last 8 years to have tampered with them. and there are definately enough people that are determined to undermine lances legacy that it can be understood for lance to be worried about what may have come of these samples. lance never produced a positive test through his caraer, and if he had a doctor doing blood transfusions, imagine how much money that information would be worth!!! i believe lance to be a true legend and hav no reason to think he was a cheat

Don't bother popping in again. I think you'll find DP a much more agreeable place for you. They just love all that 'the French are out to get us', schtick.

i can understand why lance wouldnt want those samples from 99 to be tested, it would only take on person that has the opportunity to come in contact with them over the last 8 years to have tampered with them. and there are definately enough people that are determined to undermine lances legacy that it can be understood for lance to be worried about what may have come of these samples. lance never produced a positive test through his caraer, and if he had a doctor doing blood transfusions, imagine how much money that information would be worth!!! i believe lance to be a true legend and hav no reason to think he was a cheat

i can understand why lance wouldnt want those samples from 99 to be tested, it would only take on person that has the opportunity to come in contact with them over the last 8 years to have tampered with them. and there are definately enough people that are determined to undermine lances legacy that it can be understood for lance to be worried about what may have come of these samples. lance never produced a positive test through his caraer, and if he had a doctor doing blood transfusions, imagine how much money that information would be worth!!! i believe lance to be a true legend and hav no reason to think he was a cheat
The funny thing about the science of this is that the profile of the urine of someone who injected EPO, and the profile of a urine sample that had EPO added would be completely different. It would be an easy detection. Yet Lance in his benevolence decided not to sue the only people who had samples proving he doped. He just sues those that say bad things about him, and don't have urine samples to back it up.

i can understand why lance wouldnt want those samples from 99 to be tested, it would only take on person that has the opportunity to come in contact with them over the last 8 years to have tampered with them. and there are definately enough people that are determined to undermine lances legacy that it can be understood for lance to be worried about what may have come of these samples. lance never produced a positive test through his caraer, and if he had a doctor doing blood transfusions, imagine how much money that information would be worth!!! i believe lance to be a true legend and hav no reason to think he was a cheatOh yes ... the world is against saint-lance...
Why would someone tampere old samples when you can tampere new samples?
And I agree with TFF, it's very extremely or impossible to tampere a sample with EPO!
Lance doped and is a BIG LIAR!

so you can say that it is impossible for a urine test 2 be changed from negative to positive for ANY banned substance with all the shit that can be done these days? it seems to me like all you guys have is theorys to why lance could have been a cheat, just as i have my theorys as to why he wasnt a cheat. untill there is concrete evedince about those 6 urine samples, all any one can have is theorys!!!

Agreed only theories ...they are ;)

Your theory is worse than our, because it's not answering :
Why would someone tampere old samples when you can tampere new samples?
If I remeber correctly the retesting was done a year later before the L'Equipe publication, so "the Evils" could have tampered in the same way the 1994 or 1995 samples of the demon Lance! Sure the effect would have been greater.
You should probably spin that they have chose the first solution to hide better the embezzlement! But there is a correlation between the capacity to beat doped riders, who have an advantage of 20% and the fact of EPO was found in his urines, isn't it?

If there's an end of year awards, can we nominate this one for 'Thread of the year'? :D

so you can say that it is impossible for a urine test 2 be changed from negative to positive for ANY banned substance with all the shit that can be done these days? it seems to me like all you guys have is theorys to why lance could have been a cheat, just as i have my theorys as to why he wasnt a cheat. untill there is concrete evedince about those 6 urine samples, all any one can have is theorys!!!Let me get this straight. Six positive test results=theory. Someone spiked the results=not a theory.