Why do so few bikes come with the group crank?
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You know what I'm talking about. It seems to me, in all the searching for a $1200-$1500 road bike I did over the last 4 months, that only a small portion of the bikes in that price range ever come with the group-set's crank. For example, both the Trek 1500 and the C'dale CAAD8 were all 105, but had Truvativ cranks. Any particular reason for this? Are those "truvativ elita" cranks better than a 105 crank? Are they cheaper?
Here's the story. Truvativ went up to Cannondale and said, 'hey, we'll give you these cranks really cheap if you will spec them on a bike in the $1200-$1500 range'
Cannondale said 'OK'
They saved money, Truvativ got exposure. Same thing happens with FSA.
OEM markets are huge. If you want quick exposure that is the way to do it. FI, Mavic haave flooded the Australian OEM market for wheels with Ksyrium SLs. We at the shop have a personal grudge against them, I don't really like them, but so many people ave them because they come with the bike.
Mavic haave flooded the Australian OEM market for wheels with Ksyrium SLs. We at the shop have a personal grudge against them, I don't really like them, but so many people ave them because they come with the bike.What is wrong with Ksyrium SL? ( just was considering BH Global Concept G3 (2008) - it comes with Ksyrium SL 08 wheels).
Ditto what the previous poster asked. What is wrong with the Ksyrium SL? Granted, they're not the best wheelset out there, they're not even the best in the Mavic range. But they are a solid, reliable, lightweight non-carbon wheelset. Race and road proven by pros and amateurs. What makes them so bad that the guys at your shop have a personal grudge against them? Do you see many of the SL's come back for repair? Or do you not like them just because they are so popular and saturate the medium to high end road bike market? Just curious if those who work in bike shops know something the rest of us don't.
Ditto what the previous poster asked. What is wrong with the Ksyrium SL? Granted, they're not the best wheelset out there, they're not even the best in the Mavic range. But they are a solid, reliable, lightweight non-carbon wheelset. Race and road proven by pros and amateurs. What makes them so bad that the guys at your shop have a personal grudge against them? Do you see many of the SL's come back for repair? Or do you not like them just because they are so popular and saturate the medium to high end road bike market? Just curious if those who work in bike shops know something the rest of us don't.
When did Ksyrium SLs become lightweight?
What's wrong with them? They're way overpriced for what you get.
What is wrong with Ksyrium SL? ( just was considering BH Global Concept G3 (2008) - it comes with Ksyrium SL 08 wheels).
Overpriced for a high-drag wheelset.
When did Ksyrium SLs become lightweight?
A quick glance through Weight Weenies have the SL's at 1565-1600 grams, depending on the vintage. Although not the best in class, they're by no means at the bottom end either for an all-around, aluminum clincher wheelset. They're more than competitive with other wheelsets in its class, ie. Campy Neutrons and Eurus, FSA RD400's, Shimano WH-7800's, etc. in both weight (1500-1600g) and price (ca. $800). Unless you're sporting carbon Lightweight's, ADA's, LEW's and the like at 2/3 the weight but at 3-4 times the price, I'd say the SL's are lightweight.
What's wrong with them? They're way overpriced for what you get.
Again, it's all relative and proven otherwise.
When did Ksyrium SLs become lightweight?
A quick glance through Weight Weenies have the SL's at 1565-1600 grams, depending on the vintage. Although not the best in class, they're by no means at the bottom end either for an all-around, aluminum clincher wheelset. They're more than competitive with other wheelsets in its class, ie. Campy Neutrons and Eurus, FSA RD400's, Shimano WH-7800's, etc. in both weight (1500-1600g) and price (ca. $800). Unless you're sporting carbon Lightweight's, ADA's, LEW's and the like at 2/3 the weight but at 3-4 times the price, I'd say the SL's are lightweight.
What's wrong with them? They're way overpriced for what you get.
Again, it's all relative and proven otherwise.
Not even close. 1565-1600g isn't even in the scope of wheels considered lightweight. American Classic, Extralite, Rolf, Campy, Easton, Ritchey all offer wheels at that price point with much better weights. Aerodynamically, pretty much anything trumps Ksyriums. Let's not even consider custom wheelsets which will pound the Ksyriums into the dirt in terms of weight and performance.
The Ksyriums are a marketing triumph. That's about it. They're passable wheels, but they certainly aren't special.
<1500g is getting to 'light'. That is actual weight, not claimed. Everyone should know claimed weights are generally bull****. <1400g is properly light.
SLs use alloy fat spokes. They cost a lot. They are heavy for the price. They are middle of the road stiff. They use a ****e freehub. If you get em OEM and plan onracing, the best thing to do would be sell them and use the proceeds to buy a nice set of hubs, good rims and spokes and build your own. You'll get a lighter, (possibly) stiffer and more aero set of wheels that is easier to actually fix if something goes wrong. Who uses two pawls and a bush?
Great set of wheels in comparison: Ritchey WCS LTD.
1473g damn near claimed. DT 240s freehub. Aerolites. Good lacing. Offset rear. Still cheaper than Ksyriums.
Even better: DA hubs, any light alloy rim, comp/aerolite spokes and alloy nipples. Oh yeah and PhilP's ceramic balls. Bombproof, fast, light, good looking. And cheap. All of this for less then a Ksyrium front wheel retail.
If you get them with the bike. Keep them. They aren't bad, just nothing like they are made out to be. They'll make a good training wheelset. Unless any water gets into the freehub. Then it disintegrates.
Not even close. 1565-1600g isn't even in the scope of wheels considered lightweight. American Classic, Extralite, Rolf, Campy, Easton, Ritchey all offer wheels at that price point with much better weights. Aerodynamically, pretty much anything trumps Ksyriums. Let's not even consider custom wheelsets which will pound the Ksyriums into the dirt in terms of weight and performance.
The Ksyriums are a marketing triumph. That's about it. They're passable wheels, but they certainly aren't special.
Hey iggy, read what I wrote. I suggested that the SL's are not the best in class in terms of weight, but nor are they at the bottom end. They are as competitive as the next wheelset in the range. It's always easy to make a general statement without facts that other wheelsets at the same price point are lighter and then name a few brands. But here are some of the facts for a non-carbon, clincher set, w/o skewers:
Ksyrium SL: 1565-1624g
Campy Eurus: 1545-1611g
Campy Neutron: 1590-1870g
Shimano WH-7800: 1584g
FSA RD-400: 1497-1618g
Ritchey WCS Protocol: 1476-1510g
Rolf Vigor: 1497g
This is a quick glance at the $800 range wheelsets. Obviously, there are other wheelsets that I didn't list that are both lighter and also heavier. Some are more aero, others have a more box section rim. A custom wheelset could even be built for less funds and weight less as well, but it's not the point of the comparison is it? We're talking about the mass of other pre-built wheelsets in the $800 range. So there you have it. Hey, if Mavic are great at marketing and sell the SL's by the boat load, more power to them.
Oh yeah and ... ceramic balls.
Now we're really talking about no bang for your buck.
They are as competitive as the next wheelset in the range.
How about: Ksyrium ES 33W drag at 50km/h US$850
Shimano R560 26W drag at 50km/h US$230
May be as competitive as the next wheel in the range, but watch out if someone's racing on a cheaper wheelset!
Hey iggy, read what I wrote. I suggested that the SL's are not the best in class in terms of weight, but nor are they at the bottom end. They are as competitive as the next wheelset in the range. It's always easy to make a general statement without facts that other wheelsets at the same price point are lighter and then name a few brands. But here are some of the facts for a non-carbon, clincher set, w/o skewers:
Ksyrium SL: 1565-1624g
Campy Eurus: 1545-1611g
Campy Neutron: 1590-1870g
Shimano WH-7800: 1584g
FSA RD-400: 1497-1618g
Ritchey WCS Protocol: 1476-1510g
Rolf Vigor: 1497g
This is a quick glance at the $800 range wheelsets. Obviously, there are other wheelsets that I didn't list that are both lighter and also heavier. Some are more aero, others have a more box section rim. A custom wheelset could even be built for less funds and weight less as well, but it's not the point of the comparison is it? We're talking about the mass of other pre-built wheelsets in the $800 range. So there you have it. Hey, if Mavic are great at marketing and sell the SL's by the boat load, more power to them.
Careful. Your panties are starting to wad up.
For what you get, Ksryriums are solidly in the bottom third of their categories, in general. Actually, their lowest price point wheels are probably their best value/offering.
You're allowed to like your Ksyriums. It's ok.
How about: Ksyrium ES 33W drag at 50km/h US$850
Shimano R560 26W drag at 50km/h US$230
May be as competitive as the next wheel in the range, but watch out if someone's racing on a cheaper wheelset!
So, SLs send a message that the rider is not only rich, but powerful....that's got to be worth something :)
So, SLs send a message that the rider is not only rich, but powerful....that's got to be worth something :)
Good point - it's a bigger victory if you win on Ksyriums. Those guys with R560s, they're worse than dopers! ;)
Now we're really talking about no bang for your buck.Hey, they were really cheap. I don't have to worry about rust now. I'm happy with them.
Careful. Your panties are starting to wad up.
For what you get, Ksryriums are solidly in the bottom third of their categories, in general. Actually, their lowest price point wheels are probably their best value/offering.
You're allowed to like your Ksyriums. It's ok.
Yet another baseless retort from iggy. Actually, I don't even own Ksyriums at the moment, the original SSC's and Elites were donated away some months ago. But when I did have them, they were superior to my Neutrons and to a lesser extent, the older Shimano WH-7700's in road feel, perceived stiffness and weight. The SL's also cost less to buy at the time. That makes them superior.
Now go do laundry boy.
How about: Ksyrium ES 33W drag at 50km/h US$850
Shimano R560 26W drag at 50km/h US$230
May be as competitive as the next wheel in the range, but watch out if someone's racing on a cheaper wheelset!I just ordered a new set of Shimano WH-5600 wheels, basically the same as the R560 wheels, on sale for $140.00, as an inexpensive set of emergency substitute wheels. I relocated my old bikes, which used to also serve for emergency wheels, to other states that I frequent, so I had to get something. Anyway, the R560s seemed to be holding up for people in the reviews a lot better than the R540s and R550s, and it seemed like a good deal for what will likely be a rarely used, new wheelset. But why do you say "watch out if someone's racing on a cheaper wheelset"? Watch out for what---the wheels to fall apart? :confused:
When did Ksyrium SLs become lightweight?
What's wrong with them? They're way overpriced for what you get.
ugly boy - you pay for what you get & ksyriums are a damn good wheel - in fact owning a pair of bontys & mavic - ild favour mavic every time -
p.s bontys are just like a dunlop taking on nike in my opinion
ugly boy - you pay for what you get & ksyriums are a damn good wheel - in fact owning a pair of bontys & mavic - ild favour mavic every time -
Well, if those were the only two choices, life would really suck. Mavic has done much better than Ksyriums: Cosmic Carbones, Cosmic Ultimates, OP rims. Ksyriums really are only mediocre at best. And for that kind of money, I'd want more than mediocre.
Comparing to Bontrager is nothing great either. From an engineering and design stand point, paired spokes are a truly stupid idea. Ask anyone whose rear Bontrager hub self destructed.
Just to be clear, mediocre isn't bad, it just isn't anywhere near great: it's just meh. And again, the low end Ksyriums are the better value: for a mediocre price you get a mediocre wheel.
Someone mentioned lateral stiffness. Heh. Ksyriums routinely rank at the bottom of the lateral stiffness tests. Aerodynamics? Ksyriums are barely better than 32 spokes with OPs.
p.s bontys are just like a dunlop taking on nike in my opinion
Who the hell knows what this means?
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