The world according to LeMond........

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You can tell Americans who have followed cycling pre- and post-Armstrong.

Pre-Armstrong cycling fans are fans of the sport. For them cycling is something to be followed eight months out of the year, year around if you consider cyclocross. Back then, racing was more interesting because you saw the same riders competing under a multitude of conditions and courses throughout the year.

For post-Armstrong fans, cycling only comes once a year, in July. It's a narrow minded fixation on one event and one rider. Now, with ASO taking away their '08 hope for an American winner or a someone-associated-with-Armstrong victory, they're pissed.

Fuckum. Bunch of idiots.Do you think you could change the names and country and still have the same fan divisions?

You can tell Americans who have followed cycling pre- and post-Armstrong.

Pre-Armstrong cycling fans are fans of the sport. For them cycling is something to be followed eight months out of the year, year around if you consider cyclocross. Back then, racing was more interesting because you saw the same riders competing under a multitude of conditions and courses throughout the year.

For post-Armstrong fans, cycling only comes once a year, in July. It's a narrow minded fixation on one event and one rider. Now, with ASO taking away their '08 hope for an American winner or a someone-associated-with-Armstrong victory, they're pissed.

Fuckum. Bunch of idiots.
Yep, they are the guys who bought up all of the Trek OCLV's. I had one (5500) pre-Armstrong, nice bike, but you wouldn't catch me buying one now. I have my drool set on a steel Seven or maybe....if I play my cards right...a Vanilla....speaking of bikes I could have sex with.

Do you think you could change the names and country and still have the same fan divisions?
Do you guys smell that???!!! WTF is that???!!!

You can tell Americans who have followed cycling pre- and post-Armstrong.

Pre-Armstrong cycling fans are fans of the sport. For them cycling is something to be followed eight months out of the year, year around if you consider cyclocross. Back then, racing was more interesting because you saw the same riders competing under a multitude of conditions and courses throughout the year.

For post-Armstrong fans, cycling only comes once a year, in July. It's a narrow minded fixation on one event and one rider. Now, with ASO taking away their '08 hope for an American winner or a someone-associated-with-Armstrong victory, they're pissed.

Fuckum. Bunch of idiots. With their team not being in the Tour there really is no reason for them to watch cycling for the year. I guess the boycott makes a lot of sense to people of that mindset.

Do you think you could change the names and country and still have the same fan divisions?You mean to say that, if Armstrong was European, that the Europeans would defend him with the same gusto many American fans have?

Look, an athletic achievement is an athletic achievement. It doesn't matter from what country the athlete hails. People who follow sport based on jingoism aren't fans of a sport, they're fans of their country. So, it isn't a matter of, would Europeans support Armstrong if he were European. I'm sure the stupid, jingoistic ones would. But true fans of any sport appreciate the action on the racecourse, court or field, and care little about nationality.

When you consider the heap of evidence that has stacked up against Armstrong over the years, if baffles me how anyone -- American or otherwise -- could believe he did not dope his ass off. That said, so did everyone else. However, the possibility that Armstrong and his team had the best drugs has to be considered. So, his reputation as an athlete is tarnished to a degree.

You mean to say that, if Armstrong was European, that the Europeans would defend him with the same gusto many American fans have?Actually I meant a different rider, such as Boonen or Pantani or Inudrain to name a few names.

Look, an athletic achievement is an athletic achievement. It doesn't matter from what country the athlete hails. People who follow sport based on jingoism aren't fans of a sport, they're fans of their country. So, it isn't a matter of, would Europeans support Armstrong if he were European. I'm sure the stupid, jingoistic ones would. But true fans of any sport appreciate the action on the racecourse, court or field, and care little about nationality. So then why spend so much time singling out Americans if you admit that this happens everywhere?

When you consider the heap of evidence that has stacked up against Armstrong over the years, if baffles me how anyone -- American or otherwise -- could believe he did not dope his ass off. That said, so did everyone else. However, the possibility that Armstrong and his team had the best drugs has to be considered. So, his reputation as an athlete is tarnished to a degree.It's tarnished by unproven "evidence" which leads to wholly different problem, how it's impossible for someone rumored to be doping to clear his or her name.

But getting back to what you said, you assume he had the best drugs so you spend your time harping on him (not just you but cycling fans in general) instead of realizing that if indeed they all dope then he surely could not have been the only one with access to the top stuff.

Plus, you have to figure when he fist came over, there was no American support system in Europe like there is now.

I respect Armstrong's achievements. He was the best rider of his time since the best focused on the Tour, but no Lemond = no Armstrong. For some reason that's a bitter pill for the Armstrong faithful to swallow.

Kelly should have won Chambery. I think he said bad gear selection did him in. If you watch the sprint, it seemed Lemond kept waiting for someone to come around. Kelly's win in '89 at Milan-Sanremo was the most exciting. That's got to be the best finish to a World Cup I've ever seen.


Chambery is probably my favorite World's. Fignon tore it up, and Lemond matched every one of his attacks. Had to be a bitter pill for Fignon to get beat by Lemond twice in one year by a close margin. Kelly wasn't quite the sprinter he was then then compared to his younger days, but still, awesome finish.

Chambery is probably my favorite World's. Fignon tore it up, and Lemond matched every one of his attacks. Had to be a bitter pill for Fignon to get beat by Lemond twice in one year by a close margin. Kelly wasn't quite the sprinter he was then then compared to his younger days, but still, awesome finish.Yep, and there was that break that nearly made in with Konyshev getting bronze. That was a good one. Also good was '83 when Saroni won.

Chambery is probably my favorite World's. Fignon tore it up, and Lemond matched every one of his attacks. Had to be a bitter pill for Fignon to get beat by Lemond twice in one year by a close margin. Kelly wasn't quite the sprinter he was then then compared to his younger days, but still, awesome finish. Uh-oh. Lemond's bike just reminded me of all the neon bikes and clothing. Some things, like pony tails on every other cyclists, are better left forgotten.
http://cdn.overstock.com/images/products/L10861588.jpg

Great pic.

Konychev retired, when? Last year?

Who was the Spanish rider in the break with him? Didn't he kill himself later?

Uh-oh. Lemond's bike just reminded me of all the neon bikes and clothing. Some things, like pony tails on every other cyclists, are better left forgotten.

Say no to day-glo.

Chambery is probably my favorite World's. Fignon tore it up, and Lemond matched every one of his attacks. Had to be a bitter pill for Fignon to get beat by Lemond twice in one year by a close margin. Kelly wasn't quite the sprinter he was then then compared to his younger days, but still, awesome finish.

certainly one of my favourite finishes. the number of times the lead changed hands in that last k still make me shake my head. too bad the rest of the race didn't have that level of excitement with the big dogs riding pace until the final go round. mark me down for a fan of the mountain stages just because the attacks, counters and constant battle against the pain make those the stages for me. second favourite, itt's.

Helm : Kelly said after the race that he did have the wrong gear setup for the sprint (not that he was trying to make excuses).

Subsequently, I've heard Sean say that LeMond, when he decided to, could beat any rider in his day, Hinault included.
When you look at the guys who were competing in the 1980's - and look at their palmares - it only goes to show the class of a rider like LeMond and the wins he got back then.
Hinault is second on the all time list, Kelly third (although I think Zabel may now be ahead of Kelly) : and LeMond beat these guys frequently and often.
No more needs be said.

Actually I meant a different rider, such as Boonen or Pantani or Inudrain to name a few names.I don't think anyone here believes Boonen doesn't dope. I think the general consensus here is, they all dope to a degree.

So then why spend so much time singling out Americans if you admit that this happens everywhere?Do I? I appreciate Armstrong's abilities.


It's tarnished by unproven "evidence" which leads to wholly different problem, how it's impossible for someone rumored to be doping to clear his or her name.He can't clear their name for a reason. You'd have to be a dumb ass or someone not following events ref. Armstrong not to connect the dots. It's all been stated before. Ferrari, '84 blood doping ties, six positives in 1999 for EPO. Those are just three in a long list.


But getting back to what you said, you assume he had the best drugs so you spend your time harping on him (not just you but cycling fans in general) instead of realizing that if indeed they all dope then he surely could not have been the only one with access to the top stuff.Look, I understand that he's your hero and you take it personally when people says things bad about him. And I know I've said this to you before, but maybe it's time you hear it again.

Tear down the Armstrong posters from the ceiling of your bedroom. Throw out your coveted yellow dildo. Put your seat back on your bicycle. Throw away the Lance blow up doll and patch kit. It's over, Casa. Armstrong has left the building. You'll have to seek out another sport where an American pretty boy dominates to rekindle those lustful boy-toy fantasies.

Another interesting point about the '89 World's is that Lemond said in a post-race interview that he felt lousy until two laps to go, and considered abandoning the race at one point. That's one long warm-up.

Another interesting point about the '89 World's is that Lemond said in a post-race interview that he felt lousy until two laps to go, and considered abandoning the race at one point. That's one long warm-up.

LeMond destroyed us over here, that day.

We'd hoped to retain the world title in 1989 (after 87).

Chambery is probably my favorite World's. Fignon tore it up, and Lemond matched every one of his attacks. Had to be a bitter pill for Fignon to get beat by Lemond twice in one year by a close margin. Kelly wasn't quite the sprinter he was then then compared to his younger days, but still, awesome finish.The really unlucky one was Bauer IMO. He gets over the top of the climb just behind Fignon, looks to be on a big ride, is going to get back on no problem...then punctures. Wouldn't that just piss you off?


Great pic.

Konychev retired, when? Last year?

Who was the Spanish rider in the break with him? Didn't he kill himself later?
A Frenchman. Thierry Claverolet. Won a KOM in the Tour one year and a couple of mountain stages.

The years from around 1983/84 to 1989/1990 were a Golden era in cycling history IMO, like the early 50's and the mid 60's.

Three great Tours in 1986, 1987 and 1989. 1988 Giro with the Gavia. Great world championship races in 83, 84, 87, 89 and controversy in 88 and 90. And a shitload of great classic races. 1984 Liege is probably the stand out to my mind, but there are a host of contenders

The years from around 1983/84 to 1989/1990 were a Golden era in cycling history IMO, like the early 50's and the mid 60's.

Thierry committed suicide some years ago - superb rider.

Thierry committed suicide some years ago - superb rider.There is also a bar named after him sitting at the foot of d'Huez.......

There is also a bar named after him sitting at the foot of d'Huez.......

That was his pub, WBT

Paul Kimmage wrote an excellent article on Thierry a couple of years back in the Sunset Times.

Kimmage and Claveroylat both rode for RMO and were close buddies and had kept up contact after they both retired.

He said that Thierry suffered from terrible depression after he retired.

great rider.