Silly bugger
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Driving into London this morning (sorry) I witnessed what I can only describe as an act of stupidity
by a cyclist old enough and well enough equipped to know better :~(
Just as I came off the end of the M40 where it becomes A40 (just to the west of Northolt Airport --
but before I had actually realised the road was no longer motorway (its one of those places where
only the colour of the signs change) -- I become aware of lots of braking, bunching and swinging out
in the inside lane (I'm in the middle lane).
A cyclist, 50's, male, longish grey hair, lycra and a reasonable machine -- is pedalling along the
inside lane. I presume he came down the slip road and he may even be allowed on that piece of road
(it is not, as I said above, motorway at exactly the point I say him.
Total madness. If he intended to be there he is a fool (assuming he is still alive). If he made a
mistake he will have to wash his shorts very carefully this evening !!
Generally I believe we should cycle on the roads that are allowed to us -- a bit like the Ramblers
walking footpaths to protect all our rights to those freedoms -- but here I would make an exception
-- the road is motorway in all but name and no place for a cyclist.
T
"Tony W" <tonyREMOVE@chapmore.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bjvsq9$ntl9g$1@ID-161007.news.uni-berlin.de...
> A cyclist, 50's, male, longish grey hair, lycra and a reasonable
machine --
> is pedalling along the inside lane.
Probably *looks* more dangerous than the *actual* danger. Are you saying that cyclists should not
use busy 3 lane NSL roads?
Tony W wrote:
> Driving into London this morning (sorry) I witnessed what I can only describe as an act of
> stupidity by a cyclist old enough and well enough equipped to know better :~(
>
> Just as I came off the end of the M40 where it becomes A40 (just to the west of Northolt Airport
> -- but before I had actually realised the road was no longer motorway (its one of those places
> where only the colour of the signs change) -- I become aware of lots of braking, bunching and
> swinging out in the inside lane (I'm in the middle lane).
>
> A cyclist, 50's, male, longish grey hair, lycra and a reasonable machine -- is pedalling along the
> inside lane. I presume he came down the slip road and he may even be allowed on that piece of road
> (it is not, as I said above, motorway at exactly the point I say him.
>
> Total madness. If he intended to be there he is a fool (assuming he is still alive). If he made a
> mistake he will have to wash his shorts very carefully this evening !!
>
> Generally I believe we should cycle on the roads that are allowed to us -- a bit like the Ramblers
> walking footpaths to protect all our rights to those freedoms -- but here I would make an
> exception -- the road is motorway in all but name and no place for a cyclist.
Tell that to any RTTC racer! FWIW, dual carriageways are the safest roads for cyclists in terms of
accidents per mile. Cycle tracks are the most dangerous.
"Tony W" <tonyREMOVE@chapmore.co.uk> writes:
> Driving into London this morning (sorry) I witnessed what I can only describe as an act of
> stupidity by a cyclist old enough and well enough equipped to know better :~(
>
> Just as I came off the end of the M40 where it becomes A40 (just to the west of Northolt Airport
> -- but before I had actually realised the road was no longer motorway (its one of those places
> where only the colour of the signs change) -- I become aware of lots of braking, bunching and
> swinging out in the inside lane (I'm in the middle lane).
>
> A cyclist, 50's, male, longish grey hair, lycra and a reasonable machine -- is pedalling along the
> inside lane. I presume he came down the slip road and he may even be allowed on that piece of road
> (it is not, as I said above, motorway at exactly the point I say him.
If it's not a motorway it's a legal cycling road and he had every right to be there. If other people
drive badly that's not his fault.
--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; of 90+ years of protection, but a cure for cancer, only 14? -- user 'Tackhead', in /.
discussion of copyright law, 22/05/02
Tony W wrote:
> Driving into London this morning (sorry) I witnessed what I can only describe as an act of
> stupidity by a cyclist old enough and well enough equipped to know better :~(
The "act" was cycling straight-on along on the inside lane of the road, right?
> Just as I came off the end of the M40 where it becomes A40 (just to the west of Northolt Airport
> -- but before I had actually realised the road was no longer motorway (its one of those places
> where only the colour of the signs change) -- I become aware of lots of braking, bunching and
> swinging out in the inside lane (I'm in the middle lane).
>
> A cyclist, 50's, male, longish grey hair, lycra and a reasonable machine -- is pedalling along the
> inside lane. I presume he came down the slip road and he may even be allowed on that piece of road
> (it is not, as I said above, motorway at exactly the point I say him.
So he didn't do anything ilegal? Wasn't in the wrong lane? Wasn't 3/4 of the way out from edge of
lane? Wasn't swerving about stupidly or anything like that?
> Total madness.
Total madeness just for cycling on this road?
> If he intended to be there he is a fool (assuming he is still alive). If he made a mistake he will
> have to wash his shorts very carefully this evening !!
There aren't many mistakes cyclists can make on these roads. The mistake would most likely be made
by a motorists ploughing into him while he was cycling along perfectly properly. That's a risk he is
entitled to take (without ridicule) and it would not be his fault in the highly unlikely event
someone in a car was hurt as a result.
> Generally I believe we should cycle on the roads that are allowed to us -- a bit like the Ramblers
> walking footpaths to protect all our rights to those freedoms -- but here I would make an
> exception -- the road is motorway in all but name and no place for a cyclist.
I think EVERY road that permits cycling is a place for a cyclist if the cyclist is happy on it.
Motorists should know cyclists *may* be on the road so should drive in such a way that won't
endanger any. Motorists have ample warning when coming to the end of the motorway - blue "bridge"
motoway sign with a line through it, etc.
Trunk A-roads are probably no more dangerous for cycling, on balance, than smaller roads. No sharp
turns or side turnings and crossroads, etc, etc. I use them myself quite often although I tend to
avoid the fastest 70mph ones now - but this man obviously was happy to use one. I'm disgusted
enough when motorists hate cyclists but I'm especially disappointed that a cyclist is calling
another cyclist a "silly bugger" just because he has a different preference for the types of road
to cycle on.
~PB
"Simon Brooke" <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote in message
news:87wucczap3.fsf@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk...
> "Tony W" <tonyREMOVE@chapmore.co.uk> writes:
>
> > Driving into London this morning (sorry) I witnessed what I can only describe as an act of
> > stupidity by a cyclist old enough and well enough equipped to know better :~(
> >
> > Just as I came off the end of the M40 where it becomes A40 (just to the
west
> > of Northolt Airport -- but before I had actually realised the road was
no
> > longer motorway (its one of those places where only the colour of the
signs
> > change) -- I become aware of lots of braking, bunching and swinging out
in
> > the inside lane (I'm in the middle lane).
> >
> > A cyclist, 50's, male, longish grey hair, lycra and a reasonable
machine --
> > is pedalling along the inside lane. I presume he came down the slip
road
> > and he may even be allowed on that piece of road (it is not, as I said above, motorway at
> > exactly the point I say him.
>
> If it's not a motorway it's a legal cycling road and he had every right to be there. If other
> people drive badly that's not his fault.
>
As the vicar explained to the widow... you are right, he has every right to be there, its just a
bloody stupid thing to given how crap most drivers are. I give crap drivers a wide berth when I
overtake them but as a cyclist you obviously have no idea what idiot is coming up behind you at a
speed quick enough to kill (or maim if you are really unlucky).
Pete Biggs <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote:
> Motorists have ample warning when coming to the end of the motorway - blue "bridge" motoway sign
> with a line through it, etc.
But it seems our cyclist driving a car missed this clue " but before I had actually realised the
road was no longer motorway "
I refer you back to my previous comment on what scares people, that which takes them by suprise.
Any motorist ( including myself) that is willing to admit to being scared has been suprised, if
they were suprised ( including myself) ,then they weren't paying the attention that they should
have been.
"Adrian Boliston" <adrian@boliston.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bjvtkk$murnj$1@ID-111900.news.uni-berlin.de...
> > is pedalling along the inside lane.
>
> Probably *looks* more dangerous than the *actual* danger. Are you saying that cyclists should not
> use busy 3 lane NSL roads?
No -- indeed I regularly use a section of busy 2 lane dual NSL road. It was the proximity to the
motorway that made it seem so bad. It probably does look worse than it is -- but it looked so scary
that it would (in my humble but fairly experienced opinion) be dangerous enough that I wouldn't want
to be in his saddle.
T
"Zog The Undeniable" <ggg@hhh.net> wrote in message news:bk00p7$h4h$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> Tell that to any RTTC racer! FWIW, dual carriageways are the safest roads for cyclists in terms of
> accidents per mile. Cycle tracks are the most dangerous.
>
Look at several of my previous posts and you will see I agree wholeheartedly on the second part. On
average you may be right on the first -- but this case shocked me because:-
1. there was a cyclist on what -- but for a couple of hundred metres -- was a motorway.
2. the reaction of the motorists (braking, bunching and swinging).
Now you might say that is poor driving -- but even a cyclist (me) was shocked to see this guy -- and
he didn't look any too happy or confident in his continued survival.
T
"Simon Brooke" <simon@jasmine.org.uk> wrote in message
news:87wucczap3.fsf@gododdin.internal.jasmine.org.uk...
>
> If it's not a motorway it's a legal cycling road and he had every right to be there. If other
> people drive badly that's not his fault.
Not necessarily true. A section of the A45 excluded 'slow traffic' (with a board saying anything not
capable of 25 mph). I suspect plod would pull over a cyclist and it might be 'interesting' to try to
contend that you can do 25 mph (for obvious reasons I have not cycled it so cannot comment on the
gradients other than to say they are not extreme in a car).
It might not be his fault but it is his life :~(
In principle I agree with you. This incident shocked me.
T
"Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message
news:bk0478$nliu3$1@ID-144931.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> The "act" was cycling straight-on along on the inside lane of the road, right?
Yep.
>
> So he didn't do anything ilegal? Wasn't in the wrong lane? Wasn't 3/4 of the way out from edge of
> lane? Wasn't swerving about stupidly or anything like that?
Nope
> Total madeness just for cycling on this road?
In this particular place -- yes. Probably had a perfect right to do it -- but it would not have been
my idea of fun -- indeed it shocked me when I saw him.
>
> There aren't many mistakes cyclists can make on these roads. The mistake would most likely be made
> by a motorists ploughing into him while he was cycling along perfectly properly. That's a risk he
> is entitled to take (without ridicule) and it would not be his fault in the highly unlikely event
> someone in a car was hurt as a result.
>
Don't disagree -- but ....
> I think EVERY road that permits cycling is a place for a cyclist if the cyclist is happy on it.
Don't disagree.
> Motorists should know cyclists *may* be on the road so should drive in such a way that won't
> endanger any. Motorists have ample warning when coming to the end of the motorway - blue "bridge"
> motoway sign with a line through it, etc.
It is not always that clear cut. The transition here is significant legally rather than significant
in terms of road layout or facilities.
> Trunk A-roads are probably no more dangerous for cycling, on balance, than smaller roads. No sharp
> turns or side turnings and crossroads, etc, etc. I use them myself quite often although I tend to
> avoid the fastest 70mph ones now - but this man obviously was happy to use one. I'm disgusted
> enough when motorists hate cyclists but I'm especially disappointed that a cyclist is calling
> another cyclist a "silly bugger" just because he has a different preference for the types of road
> to cycle on.
We will just have to disagree on this one then. I have to say this shocked me sufficiently to post
it some six or seven hours later -- in this case I don't think the guy was being particularly
responsible.
T
"Willowbeauty" <neil.kurz@DUMPTHISwillowbeauty.co.uk> wrote in message
news:sRL8b.3804$vX3.535495@wards.force9.net...
> As the vicar explained to the widow... you are right, he has every right
to
> be there, its just a bloody stupid thing to given how crap most drivers
are.
> I give crap drivers a wide berth when I overtake them but as a cyclist you obviously have no idea
> what idiot is coming up behind you at a speed quick enough to kill (or maim if you are really
> unlucky).
You would probably be wiped out clean by any driver doing much over 35mph, so does it matter if the
driver is doing 35 or 75?
"Tony W" <tonyREMOVE@chapmore.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bk0a0s$nq5kp$1@ID-161007.news.uni-berlin.de...
> No -- indeed I regularly use a section of busy 2 lane dual NSL road. It
was
> the proximity to the motorway that made it seem so bad....
There are quite a few A roads in london that have m-ways that lead onto them, such as the
A4(M4), A316(M3) etc. Perhaps cyclists should not use these roads for the first mile from the
m-way junction?
> You would probably be wiped out clean by any driver doing much over 35mph, so does it matter if
> the driver is doing 35 or 75?
Might miss you at 35.
Ken.
Kenneth Clements <kenneth.clements@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > You would probably be wiped out clean by any driver doing much over 35mph, so does it matter if
> > the driver is doing 35 or 75?
>
> Might miss you at 35.
"miss" implies a distance, distances don't vary depending on speed, a "miss" at 35 mph is a
"miss" at 75 mph
"Kenneth Clements" <kenneth.clements@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:vmM8b.1607$WI3.22276@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...
> Might miss you at 35.
I've had many a "near miss" by some old duffer pootling along in his rover at 35mph. Generally the
faster the vehicle the greater the clearance they give.
> I don't think the guy was being particularly responsible.
I don't think I would have called the bloke a Silly Bugger in public like this. I wouldn't cycle on
that road and wouldn't recommend anyone else to do so. As the other posters say, he did nothing
wrong and its his choice. Good luck to him. I saw a guy on the A64 near Copmanthorpe on Friday
night, this is a 70mph + dual carriageway - some folk are braver than me.
In article <bk0btg$ni731$1@ID-111900.news.uni-berlin.de>, Adrian Boliston wrote:
> There are quite a few A roads in london that have m-ways that lead onto them, such as the A4(M4),
> A316(M3) etc. Perhaps cyclists should not use these roads for the first mile from the m-way
> junction?
Many such roads elsewhere keep their motorway status for a short distance after the last junction
off them. The simple change in designation for that mile would be enough, though somewhere like
London with lots of junctions (guessing here), that could end up with ever creeping motorway as it
is moved another mile on from its endpoint.
I've found that cycling on wider roads such as dual carriage ways is often easier, at the time of
day or day of week I'm cycling. There is more room for the traffic to move aside, and if its not a
busy time the right hand lane is generally clear for them to move over into. These roads are often
straighter and have visibility for longer. The original post describes a situation where the cyclist
had ovbiously been seen by the drivers, as they were slowing down for him.
The difficult spots are the back lanes, which would be great shortcuts on bike if they weren't also
great shortcuts in the car. Here these tend to be narrower, lots of tight corners, and poor
visibility due to hedges. Most, but not all, drivers slow down in the bends, though many I expect
don't slow down enough to handle meeting a bike in the bend with a car coming the other way
preventing the option of pulling out. (The particular bend in question is on a hill climb, so not
fast for the bike.) You have to think to be visible as far back up the road as possible before
entering, so any drivers approaching know to slow down.
- Richard
--
_/_/_/ _/_/_/ _/_/_/ Richard dot Corfield at ntlworld dot com _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/ _/ _/ Time is a
one way street, _/ _/ _/_/ _/_/_/ Except in the Twighlight Zone.
On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 20:55:34 +0100, "Tony W" <tonyREMOVE@chapmore.co.uk> wrote:
>I become aware of lots of braking, bunching and swinging out in the inside lane (I'm in the middle
>lane). Total madness.
Absolutely. There was a vehicle travelling legally along the road, and a mass of drivers who
evidently failed to look more than three feet in front of them are swinging all over the shop trying
to undo the consequences of their inattention. Mad indeed. They probably think that it's illegal to
travel at less than the speed limit, perhaps having read Smith's maunderings.
Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk (http://chapmancentral.demon.co.uk/)
Tony W wrote:
> 1. there was a cyclist on what -- but for a couple of hundred metres -- was a motorway.
Would you have been any happier had the road been an A-road of the same standard all the way to
High Wycombe?
--
Stevie D \\\\\ ///// Bringing dating agencies to the \\\\\\\__X__///////
common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs" ___\\\\\\\'/
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