creation of the offence "culpable cycling"

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http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/cyclists-face-jail-for-road-breaches/2008/03/05/1204402555572.html

As a victim of an attack by another cyclist, while cycling, I welcome
this initiative to create the offence of "culpable cycling".

It's not necessary to register cyclists, as there are plenty of
options for taking photos and identifying offenders. In my case the
offender was identified, but there was no relevant offence to charge
him with.

As the number of cyclists grows, within our ranks we find offenders of
this nature. They now face the real prospect of spending a
considerable length of time in custody - plenty of time to consider
how they will behave in the future.

-----

I'm recovering from my broken arm, but still face another 7 months
before I can ride my bike again.

AndrewJ wrote:

> http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/cyclists-face-jail-for-road-breaches/2008/03/05/1204402555572.html
>
> As a victim of an attack by another cyclist, while cycling, I welcome
> this initiative to create the offence of "culpable cycling".

The victorian government have their heads so far up their arses they need to
open their mouths to tell if it's night or day.

From the article:

"Roads minister Tim Pallas said cyclists who broke the law must be treated
like drivers who drove illegally."

Cyclists ALREADY are under the road rules in NSW, and I'm assuming it's the
same for Victoria. If it isn't they're more backward than I thought.

In the event they ARE more backward than I thought, what's wrong with using
the same laws for drivers on roads, as for cyclists on roads (surprise
surprise, as is the case in NSW), rather than inventing a new law?
--
Linux Registered User # 302622
<http://counter.li.org>

"John Tserkezis" <jt@techniciansyndrome.org.invalid> wrote in message
news:47cf9b02$0$15754

John; it's a gmail troll. Don't waste your breath.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/cyclists-face-jail-for-road-breaches/2008/03/05/1204402555572.html

As a victim of an attack by another cyclist, while cycling, I welcome
this initiative to create the offence of "culpable cycling".

It's not necessary to register cyclists, as there are plenty of
options for taking photos and identifying offenders. In my case the
offender was identified, but there was no relevant offence to charge
him with.

Fair cop, I'll support the offence of culpable cycling when equal enforcement is applied to all road users. If a bicycle rider is found guilty of killing another road user I don't want to read in the media of them getting off with a lenient sentencing which consists of 12 months suspended riding and a $3100 fine.

Zebee Johnstone wrote:

>> Speaking of which, isn't it about time you got a real account Zebee? :-)

> Isn't it about time you got a real killfile? :)

Touche.

--
Linux Registered User # 302622
<http://counter.li.org>

John Tserkezis wrote:

>>> Speaking of which, isn't it about time you got a real account
>>> Zebee? :-)

>> Isn't it about time you got a real killfile? :)

> Touche.

Spoke too soon. I thought I couldn't do it, turns out I could after all.
--
Linux Registered User # 302622
<http://counter.li.org>

On Thu, 6 Mar 2008 22:01:46 +1100, cfsmtb
<cfsmtb.35ul80@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:

>Fair cop, I'll support the offence of culpable cycling when equal
>enforcement is applied to all road users. If a bicycle rider is found
>guilty of killing another road user I don't want to read in the media of
>them getting off with a lenient sentencing which consists of 12 months
>suspended riding and a $3100 fine.

and when a cyclist reports their single vehicle accident when legally
required, the police can be bothered to record it.

In aus.bicycle on Thu, 6 Mar 2008 14:44:31 -0800 (PST)
lemmiwinks.au@gmail.com <lemmiwinks.au@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> They took our news server away to save money.

news.individual.net

10 euro a year, very good feed, very reliable.

Have to sign up to a european paypal like thing but that's no real
hardship.

A real news server means a real newsreader.

Zebee

On Mar 7, 10:00 am, Zebee Johnstone <zeb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In aus.bicycle on Thu, 6 Mar 2008 14:44:31 -0800 (PST)
>
> lemmiwinks...@gmail.com <lemmiwinks...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > They took our news server away to save money.
>
> news.individual.net
>
> 10 euro a year, very good feed, very reliable.
>
> Have to sign up to a european paypal like thing but that's no real
> hardship.
>
> A real news server means a real newsreader.
>
> Zebee

Probably wouldn't be allowed to play through our firewall and I'm too
tight to pay ;-)

"Zebee Johnstone" <zebeej@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:slrnft0tso.2uv.zebeej@gmail.com...
> In aus.bicycle on Thu, 6 Mar 2008 14:44:31 -0800 (PST)
> lemmiwinks.au@gmail.com <lemmiwinks.au@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> They took our news server away to save money.
>
> news.individual.net
>
> 10 euro a year, very good feed, very reliable.
>
> Have to sign up to a european paypal like thing but that's no real
> hardship.
>
> A real news server means a real newsreader.
>
> Zebee

Why not use the telstra whoresale news server ?

pit-reader.telstra.net

Or you can use free yotta news account.

http://www.yottanews.com/

On Mar 6, 11:42 am, AndrewJ <AJenningsFranks...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/cyclists-face-jail-for-road-br...
>
> As a victim of an attack by another cyclist, while cycling, I welcome
> this initiative to create the offence of "culpable cycling".
>
> It's not necessary to register cyclists, as there are plenty of
> options for taking photos and identifying offenders. In my case the
> offender was identified, but there was no relevant offence to charge
> him with.
>
> As the number of cyclists grows, within our ranks we find offenders of
> this nature. They now face the real prospect of spending a
> considerable length of time in custody - plenty of time to consider
> how they will behave in the future.
>
> -----
>
> I'm recovering from my broken arm, but still face another 7 months
> before I can ride my bike again.

For what it's worth I'm not a troll. I'm not going to extol the
virtues of gmail,
as I'm also a google shareholder. I don't use my work email as I don't
want
to spend all weekend working replying to emails :-)

(Yes, it does <look> like a troll, but I can post the x-ray of my arm
if you
want :-) )

For what it's worth I'm not a troll. I'm not going to extol the
virtues of gmail,
as I'm also a google shareholder. I don't use my work email as I don't
want
to spend all weekend working replying to emails :-)

(Yes, it does <look> like a troll, but I can post the x-ray of my arm
if you want :-) )

And I've heard you being interviewed on Jon Faines show (ABC 774) about the incident mentioned above, so you're obviously *not* a troll.

On Mar 7, 12:42 pm, cfsmtb <cfsmtb.35v...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> AndrewJ Wrote:
>
>
>
> > For what it's worth I'm not a troll. I'm not going to extol the
> > virtues of gmail,
> > as I'm also a google shareholder. I don't use my work email as I don't
> > want
> > to spend all weekend working replying to emails :-)
>
> > (Yes, it does <look> like a troll, but I can post the x-ray of my arm
> > if you want :-) )
>
> And I've heard you being interviewed on Jon Faines show (ABC 774) about
> the incident mentioned above, so you're obviously *not* a troll.
>
> --
> cfsmtb

Yup. I like to think that the publicity might have helped to push this
along, but whatever.

I've gone from "I'm not sure if I'll ride again" to "when I ride
again". So I'm making progress :-)

On 2008-03-07, AndrewJ (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> On Mar 7, 12:42 pm, cfsmtb <cfsmtb.35v...@no-
> mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
>> AndrewJ Wrote:
>>
>> > For what it's worth I'm not a troll. I'm not going to extol the
>> > virtues of gmail,
>> > as I'm also a google shareholder. I don't use my work email as I don't
>> > want
>> > to spend all weekend working replying to emails :-)
>>
>> > (Yes, it does <look> like a troll, but I can post the x-ray of my arm
>> > if you want :-) )
>>
>> And I've heard you being interviewed on Jon Faines show (ABC 774) about
>> the incident mentioned above, so you're obviously *not* a troll.
>
> Yup. I like to think that the publicity might have helped to push this
> along, but whatever.
>
> I've gone from "I'm not sure if I'll ride again" to "when I ride
> again". So I'm making progress :-)

Onya. For what it's worth, I knew you weren't a troll :)

I'm a little unsure as to why the offence is not amalgamated into the
culpable driving offence (I don't have the text of the culpable
driving offence at hand -- maybe it really can't fit). I believe I've
only ever heard "culpable driving" used in conjunction with "causing
injury|death" (this may be an artifact of a reporting bias in the
media - you don't hear about offences that don't result in injury -
because then you'd have 6502 stories on the news per night).

As such, this may not be a dangerous move -- culpable cycling causing
death *should* be quite a punishable offence, as long as it truly is
culpable (and we are yet to see whether that guy truly was stepping
off a stationary tram or whether he was darting across the road
between trams, illegally jaywalking). But if it were ever to be used
for something stupid being done (running a red light), that didn't
then go onto create significant damage and/or injury, I'd be very
worried. As much as people will say otherwise, breaking the law on a
bicycle very rarely has the impact that breaking the law in a car has
often enough. Doing something stupid on a bicycle is not as damaging
as doing something stupid in a car, and so doesn't have cause to
invoke as great a punitive/corrective wrath from society.

--
TimC
> cat ~/.signature
Passing cosmic ray (core dumped)

"TimC" wrote:

> But if it were ever to be used
> for something stupid being done (running a red light), that didn't
> then go onto create significant damage and/or injury, I'd be very
> worried.

Culpable driving can only occur when a driver causes the death of someone,
as a result of the driver's gross negligence (culpability). Any culpable
driving offence would have to parallel this.

> As much as people will say otherwise, breaking the law on a
> bicycle very rarely has the impact that breaking the law in a car has
> often enough. Doing something stupid on a bicycle is not as damaging
> as doing something stupid in a car, and so doesn't have cause to
> invoke as great a punitive/corrective wrath from society.

Yes, that's a concern I have. The culpability of cutting through a
pedestrian red light on a light bike has got to be very much less than the
culpbility of roaring through in a 4WD, or in a 10 tonne semitrailer,
surely.

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

"PeteSig" wrote:
>
> Culpable driving can only occur when a driver causes the death of someone,
> as a result of the driver's gross negligence (culpability). Any culpable
> driving offence would have to parallel this.

Make that 'any culpable cycling offence would have to parallel this' !!!

--
Cheers
Peter

~~~ ~ _@
~~ ~ _- \,
~~ (*)/ (*)

"AndrewJ" <AJenningsFrankston@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:984ee9ab-1ade-4cd5-ac9f-cf3f7b86c1b1@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com...

> Yup. I like to think that the publicity might have helped to push this
> along, but whatever.

I haven't heard about it. What happened?

In aus.bicycle on Fri, 7 Mar 2008 21:49:08 +1100
TimC <tconnors@no.spam.accepted.here-astro.swin.edu.au> wrote:
>
> Zebee - remember that discussion about private mail at ork
> addresses[1] in the Scary Devil Monastery? Given how close I've been
> in the past to blacklisting gmail addresses in mail as well, I
> consider the gmail POP solution particularly bad. They're the new
> AOL.
>

I could simply change the address to my zip one, but I see no reason
to. If people nuclear killfile then they do. I have a fairly heavy
news habit and have had no reason to do something that silly.

It's just the address on the from line after all, which has nothing to
do with a references line, posting service or similar. Given how
trivial they are to change killfiling on that seems to be rather
luserish to me.

If sod+dog has a gmail address, I really couldn't give a damn. It
isn't like email addresses for most people are *real* or anything,
with all the munging going on.

Zebee

On 2008-03-07, Zebee Johnstone (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
> I could simply change the address to my zip one, but I see no reason
> to. If people nuclear killfile then they do. I have a fairly heavy
> news habit and have had no reason to do something that silly.
>
> It's just the address on the from line after all, which has nothing to
> do with a references line, posting service or similar. Given how
> trivial they are to change killfiling on that seems to be rather
> luserish to me.
>
> If sod+dog has a gmail address, I really couldn't give a damn. It
> isn't like email addresses for most people are *real* or anything,
> with all the munging going on.

Ah, hadn't noticed (hadn't looked) that you in particular weren't
posting through google, in which case my killing on the X-trace
wouldn't affect you. It would score Bleve though, so I'd have to
whitelist him.

--
TimC
Computer screens simply ooze buckets of yang.
To balance this, place some women around the corners of the room.
-- Kaz Cooke, Dumb Feng Shui

Zebee Johnstone wrote:

>
>
> I could simply change the address to my zip one,

If zip gives you self set up, multiple email addresses, just set up a
munged or dated one for usenet. Throw it away when the spam gets too much.