Red Rice Yeast

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I started taking red rice yeast 2 years ago due to total cholesterol in the low 200's (normal HDL
and borderline LDL). My Triglycerides were always low. Initially the total cholesterol dropped, but
now It's back to where it was and the triglycerides jumped to 4 times their previous values,
breaking all records! (BMI of 26). Any clues? What are the long-term effects of red rice yeast?

TsatskeMitKeinTsitskes

TsatskeMitGroysseTsitskes <tsatske@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> I started taking red rice yeast 2 years ago due to total cholesterol in the low 200's (normal HDL
> and borderline LDL). My Triglycerides were always low. Initially the total cholesterol dropped,
> but now It's back to where it was and the triglycerides jumped to 4 times their previous values,
> breaking all records! (BMI of 26). Any clues? What are the long-term effects of red rice yeast?

The active component in red rice yeast is pretty much identical to the statin drugs you were
probably trying to avoid. But by taking an herbal form, you are getting an unknown amount, and
herbals vary widely from batch to batch in content of active ingredients.

--
jamie (jamiemck@newsguy.com)

"There's a seeker born every minute."

The active item in red rice yeast is a statin drug, lovestatin, sp?, which is why the fda has taken
to controlling it as a drug and no longer as a food. Your high trigs would lead one to consider
syndrom x, do a google search, for which lipid problems is but one of a set of disorders which can
lead to diabetes.

"jamie" wrote
> The active component in red rice yeast is pretty much identical to the statin drugs you were
> probably trying to avoid. But by taking an herbal form, you are getting an unknown amount, and
> herbals vary widely from batch to batch in content of active ingredients.
>
So if I want to give up on Red Rice Yeast and take a prescription statin, which one should I choose?

TsatskeMitKeinTsitskes (on Atkins since 4/26/03)

In sci.med.cardiology markd@frog-net.com wrote:
> The active item in red rice yeast is a statin drug, lovestatin, sp?, which is why the fda has
> taken to controlling it as a drug and no longer as a food. Your high trigs would lead one to
> consider syndrom x, do a google search, for which lipid problems is but one of a set of disorders
> which can lead to diabetes.

My triglycerides went up a bit on statin, see the thread `Cholesterol - input wanted'

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<markd@frog-net.com> wrote in message news:3eb59fb7$0$251$4d5ecec7@reader.city-net.com...
> The active item in red rice yeast is a statin drug, lovestatin, sp?,
which
> is why the fda has taken to controlling it as a drug and no longer
as a
> food. Your high trigs would lead one to consider syndrom x, do a
google
> search, for which lipid problems is but one of a set of disorders
which
> can lead to diabetes.

The low carb of the Atkins diet he just started may drop the triglycerides.

If you are looking (only) for the statin Rx that is like red yeast rice then Mevacor (Lovastatin) is
the one. However, there are several statin medications and they work differently from each other. It
is possible that red rice yeast just stopped working for you and considering a different statin is
what you actually need. Given that at this time all statin medications are doctor prescribed it
might be a good idea to consult one.

galya

"TsatskeMitGroysseTsitskes" <tsatske@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:<3Ngta.2685$2p.2084@twister.nyc.rr.com>...
> "jamie" wrote
> > The active component in red rice yeast is pretty much identical to the statin drugs you were
> > probably trying to avoid. But by taking an herbal form, you are getting an unknown amount, and
> > herbals vary widely from batch to batch in content of active ingredients.
> >
> So if I want to give up on Red Rice Yeast and take a prescription statin, which one should
> I choose?
>
> TsatskeMitKeinTsitskes (on Atkins since 4/26/03)

"TsatskeMitGroysseTsitskes" <tsatske@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:<3Ngta.2685$2p.2084@twister.nyc.rr.com>...
> "jamie" wrote
> > The active component in red rice yeast is pretty much identical to the statin drugs you were
> > probably trying to avoid. But by taking an herbal form, you are getting an unknown amount, and
> > herbals vary widely from batch to batch in content of active ingredients.
> >
> So if I want to give up on Red Rice Yeast and take a prescription statin, which one should
> I choose?
>
> TsatskeMitKeinTsitskes (on Atkins since 4/26/03)

You simply must take Lipitor. Why? Because I said so.

OK, I'm being sarcastic, but there's a point and that point is: why are you using USENET to select a
statin drug?

In sci.med.cardiology Brian Sandle <bsandle@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:
> In sci.med.cardiology markd@frog-net.com wrote:
>> The active item in red rice yeast is a statin drug, lovestatin, sp?, which is why the fda has
>> taken to controlling it as a drug and no longer as a food. Your high trigs would lead one to
>> consider syndrom x, do a google search, for which lipid problems is but one of a set of disorders
>> which can lead to diabetes.

> My triglycerides went up a bit on statin, see the thread `Cholesterol - input wanted'

Though it may not be a very significant amount.

But I have been thinking a bit more about the diabetes comment.

Diabetes is insulin trouble.

Insulin demand is increased to neutralise adrenalin, I think.

Therefore increased stress might be leading to diabetes.

Increased stress leads to increased triglycerides.

So maybe the triglycerides and diabetes both result from the extra stress.

The next point is that some people get depression on a low fat diet.

So my question is whether statins -> stress -> triglycerides And my question is whether statins ->
stress -> diabetes.

I am not claiming, just asking, for some people.

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TsatskeMitGroysseTsitskes <tsatske@nyc.rr.com> wrote:
> "jamie" wrote
>> The active component in red rice yeast is pretty much identical to the statin drugs you were
>> probably trying to avoid. But by taking an herbal form, you are getting an unknown amount, and
>> herbals vary widely from batch to batch in content of active ingredients.
>>
> So if I want to give up on Red Rice Yeast and take a prescription statin, which one should
> I choose?

I haven't the foggiest. I last examined studies and evaluations on statin drugs about 5 years ago,
and a number have come out since then. At the time, from what I could tell, while high cholesterol
increases risk of CHD, I felt that the data I looked at didn't show that artificially lowering it
with drugs significantly decreased the risk.

The newer drugs may be different, but I read that high cholesterol itself isn't supposed to be a
risk factor until menopause for women, so I put off re-examining them.

--
jamie (jamiemck@newsguy.com)

"There's a seeker born every minute."

"Baby Peanut" wrote

> why are you using USENET to select a statin drug?

The best source.

I'm an M.D. and write my own prescriptions (seriously). My family practitioner is not better
informed than many lay people on the internet (she gets much of her information from well informed
patients) and even I can't get through her gatekeeping to see a cardiologist (not that I would trust
one). In the long run you're on your own, and the net gives you the right leads. Health care in this
country (US) sucks - it's not accessible, it's only cost oriented and it's not based on clinical
common sense.

TsatskeMitKeinTsitskes

"Brian Sandle" <bsandle@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote in message

> But I have been thinking a bit more about the diabetes comment.
>
> Diabetes is insulin trouble.
>
> Insulin demand is increased to neutralise adrenalin, I think.
>
> Therefore increased stress might be leading to diabetes.
>
> Increased stress leads to increased triglycerides.
>
> So maybe the triglycerides and diabetes both result from the extra
stress.
>
> The next point is that some people get depression on a low fat diet.
>
> So my question is whether statins -> stress -> triglycerides And my question is whether statins ->
> stress -> diabetes.
>
> I am not claiming, just asking, for some people.

http://www.cholesterol-and-triglycerides.com/html/causes-and-effects.p hp3 :

Acquired Causes

Most of the causes of elevated triglycerides are acquired and include: a diet high in fat or
carbohydrates (sugar), excessive habitual alcohol consumption, exogenous estrogens, poorly
controlled diabetes, and the use of beta blocker drugs or corticosteroids. Women and diabetics are
particularly at risk.

Recent research suggests that a high carbohydrate diet, which raises blood sugar and insulin levels,
results in greater production and storage of fat. This, in turn, promotes high triglycerides, which
may indicate that LDL levels are too high, that HDL levels are too low, or that the HDL/LDL ratio
('good' to 'bad' cholesterol) is lower than normal.

http://www.learn-about-type-2-diabetes.com/html/insulin_resistance.php 3

Causes of Insulin Resistance

Most of the blame for insulin resistance goes to too many saturated fats and refined, sugary
carbohydrates. Put simply, the more refined carbohydrates eaten, the more insulin that must be
produced to handle the resulting elevation in blood sugar. The body reacts to the high levels of
insulin by building up a resistance to it. Over time, this results in less and less effective blood
sugar processing.

Put simply, to avoid insulin resistance and diabetes and high glycerides, lower the amount of carbs
you eat (and type) and sat/trans fats, change to low GI carbs and good fats.

In my opinion, far better to modify a diet than swallow statins. Statins would be my final choice,
after other methods fail.

Lipitor works for me. my chol is now 140, hdl 55, trig 70. Agree with others don't take herbals - no
standards. Do check with your doc
- also consider adding naicin if your doc concurs.

baby_p_nut2@yahoo.com (Baby Peanut) wrote in message
news:<96d83290.0305041822.51c49bf4@posting.google.com>...
> "TsatskeMitGroysseTsitskes" <tsatske@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:<3Ngta.2685$2p.2084@twister.nyc.rr.com>...
> > "jamie" wrote
> > > The active component in red rice yeast is pretty much identical to the statin drugs you were
> > > probably trying to avoid. But by taking an herbal form, you are getting an unknown amount, and
> > > herbals vary widely from batch to batch in content of active ingredients.
> > >
> > So if I want to give up on Red Rice Yeast and take a prescription statin, which one should I
> > choose?
> >
> > TsatskeMitKeinTsitskes (on Atkins since 4/26/03)
>
> You simply must take Lipitor. Why? Because I said so.
>
> OK, I'm being sarcastic, but there's a point and that point is: why are you using USENET to select
> a statin drug?

On Mon, 05 May 2003 03:04:18 GMT, "TsatskeMitGroysseTsitskes" <tsatske@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

>"Baby Peanut" wrote
>
>> why are you using USENET to select a statin drug?
>
>The best source.
>
>I'm an M.D. and write my own prescriptions (seriously). My family practitioner is not better
>informed than many lay people on the internet (she gets much of her information from well informed
>patients) and even I can't get through her gatekeeping to see a cardiologist (not that I would
>trust one). In the long run you're on your own, and the net gives you the right leads. Health care
>in this country (US) sucks - it's not accessible, it's only cost oriented and it's not based on
>clinical common sense.

I use Lipitor. Here are my lipid numbers from November of 2002, followed by my numbers from April of
2003. I'd been low-carbing for three months at the time of my second readings.

Total Cholesterol from 195 to 167 HDL from 44 to 52 LDL from 117 to 91 Ratio from 2.7 to 1.7
Triglycerides from 168 to 121

Hope that helps you with your decision!

Carol
--
226/204/150 May Challenge Goal - 199 Atkins since 1-26-2003 Type 2 Diabetic since 5-15-2001

"Brad Sheppard" <Brad@sheppardsoftware.com> wrote in message
news:b06e736a.0305051043.1dc1baec@posting.google.com...
> Lipitor works for me. my chol is now 140, hdl 55, trig 70. Agree with others don't take herbals -
> no standards.

Especially after what just happened here in Oz with Pan Pharmaceuticals. If statins are tolerated (I
can't take them myself) then steer clear of the herbals, you can never be sure you are getting what
you pay for.

Brad@sheppardsoftware.com (Brad Sheppard) wrote in message
news:<b06e736a.0305051043.1dc1baec@posting.google.com>...
> Lipitor works for me. my chol is now 140, hdl 55, trig 70. Agree with others don't take herbals -
> no standards. Do check with your doc
> - also consider adding naicin if your doc concurs.
>
While there is good medical research showing a reduced risk of death from CAD for patients taking
statins, IMO anyone considering their use should read the article by Duane Graveline, M.D. who is
also a former astronaut for NASA. He describes some little known side effects, including memory loss
and even temporary global amnesia. There is also considerable evidence in the medical literature
(run a pubmed search for citations) that statins deplete CoQ10 levels, hence, those taking statins
would do well to supplement with CoQ10 (very difficult to obtain from foods). There is also a
significant amount of research data supporting the conclusion that total cholesterol should be in
the range of 180 to 220, as levels below 180 have been correlated (especially in the elderly) with
increased risk of certain types of strokes. Dr. Graveline's article appears at the URL below-listed.
http://www.spacedoc.net/lipitor_thief_of_memory.html Ron

On Mon, 05 May 2003 03:04:18 GMT, "TsatskeMitGroysseTsitskes" <tsatske@nyc.rr.com> wrote:

>
>"Baby Peanut" wrote
>
>> why are you using USENET to select a statin drug?
>
>The best source.
>
>I'm an M.D. and write my own prescriptions (seriously). My family practitioner is not better
>informed than many lay people on the internet (she gets much of her information from well informed
>patients) and even I can't get through her gatekeeping to see a cardiologist (not that I would
>trust one). In the long run you're on your own, and the net gives you the right leads. Health care
>in this country (US) sucks - it's not accessible, it's only cost oriented and it's not based on
>clinical common sense.

There are other interventions you might consider before the statin. First, of course, is diet; the
benefit there is approximately a 12% reduction in lowering LDL. There are other supplement
interventions besides red yeast rice. These include: carnitine, guggul, niacin, hawthorn.

I'd try some combination of these. Of course, if you take the statin, you might consider an
oil-based coenzyme Q10 supplement which statins may wipe out.

If as an MD you are so cynical about your profession, this is a curious and sad state of affairs.
You might yet still wish to see a physician and get second thoughts. Other issues may arise; e.g.,
if your handle suggests your are an Ashkenazi Jew by heritage, it may be that you have a congenital
hypercholeteremia. I don't know how amenable it is to different types of treatments. (I have a
friend who has this problem; he seems to manage it best with diet and exercise). Also, if you have
HIV or other concomitant disease and/or are taking other prescription meds, it is important to
understand, as much as we do yet these days, any kind of interactions that may occur between drug
classes and with supplements.

George M. Carter

On Tue, 6 May 2003 08:52:39 +1000, "Ozgirl" <someone@nothere.com> wrote:

>
>"Brad Sheppard" <Brad@sheppardsoftware.com> wrote in message
>news:b06e736a.0305051043.1dc1baec@posting.google.com...
>> Lipitor works for me. my chol is now 140, hdl 55, trig 70. Agree with others don't take herbals -
>> no standards.
>
>Especially after what just happened here in Oz with Pan Pharmaceuticals. If statins are tolerated
>(I can't take them myself) then steer clear of the herbals, you can never be sure you are getting
>what you pay for.

There are several sources that may help reduce this risk, including Consumer Reports and
consumerlabs.com. The best one can do is rely on some of the brands that have some reputability.
Still, doubts may arise. At least in the U.S., the FDA is FINALLY starting to institute Good
Manufacturing Practices (GMP). I fear, tho, that it will lack any meaningful regulatory teeth to
assess products for identity, potency and purity, leaving us still with questions.

By contrast, there is an increase in the numbers of fraudulent pharmaceuticals, particularly with
high cost drugs like EPO, HGH, etc. It wouldn't surprise if some folks were involved in
counterfeiting statins as they represent the most lucrative and outrageously overpriced products of
the pharmaceutical industry.

George M. Carter