Landis' last gasp

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Care to elaborate on that? As I said, I don't know. I thought the majority was not scorning at Bonds.
He's a *joke...there wasn't a whole hell of a lot of excitement about him breaking the *record, either, because it was like, oh well, he's doped.

Exactly. You speak the truth Bro, in THAT I believe. :D

When did it come out that Landis was divorcing and Amber left him btw? I hadn't heard that one until reading jimmypop's post, but it sounded like it was old news based on the tone of his post. Granted, I haven't been following everything for the last several months . . . .Confusing Helmut with Bro? ;) How is that possible with their distinctively different avatars? :p

Care to elaborate on that? As I said, I don't know. I thought the majority was not scorning at Bonds.Marion Jones disgraced... Barry Bonds - has a few supporters in San Fran I imagine... but most of the public despise the fact that he has obviously doped himself and passed the greats Hank Aaron and Babe Ruth in the record books. Clemens is like a rabbit caught in a hunter's spotlight. He will lose a lot of his legacy if he goes down. That's why he started pleading innocent, even against another man's testimony. Now, like NNS has said, he has to cling to that initial lie... it just becomes even harder to fess up now. Mark McGwire took the fifth. Footballers get crucified for fighting dogs... I don't have much knowledge of football doping cases though. Ben Johnson... though he is Canadian.. its a similar culture... disgraced.

Disagree with your view on that.
Well, I disagree with you on your disagreement of TDL's opinion. :p

Seriously, somebody in the recent past shared a study somewhere along the way that concluded that the majority of college hockey players (can't recall the %, but want to say it was like 75%), admitted to some sort of doping.

Ok, I've walked into many ice rinks and hockey crowd gatherings and shared this study in the last year, especially as it relates to those of use raising little hockey players. People couldn't care less. They shrug it off, turn away and say "hey, how 'bout those Redwings" to the person next to them. Or, they respond by saying, "Yeah, for what? Taking sudafed or something? Gimme a break already."

So, baseball discussions go somewhat the same imo. Doping is the elephant in the room that everyone knows exists but they don't want to talk about. The skeleton in their sports' closet that nobody speaks of. But, when it is forced to the forefront (Balco, Bonds, congressional hearings) then people relucantly speak their discontent, but only because they recognize the societal pressure and the fact that it is the "right thing to do." Political correctness at it's finest.

If a congressional issue (literally and figuratively) wasn't being made out of it, nobody would care and they'd simply keep screaming "play ball", without any in depth consideration about the underlying effects from doping.

Exactly. You speak the truth Bro, in THAT I believe. :D

When did it come out that Landis was divorcing and Amber left him btw? I hadn't heard that one until reading jimmypop's post, but it sounded like it was old news based on the tone of his post. Granted, I haven't been following everything for the last several months . . . .
Cdale, I told you that on a different forum. What is happening to your memory C.

Confusing Helmut with Bro? ;) How is that possible with their distinctively different avatars? :p
My bad helmut. In Helmut I believe. :p

Cdale, I told you that on a different forum. What is happening to your memory C.
You still haven't taken that reading comprehension course have you? Reread my question please, focusing on "WHEN DID IT COME OUT?" ;) :p

I don't know if Landis will ever do it though. Just imagine the outrage that would result, especially from the people who contributed to his fund - and I would imagine that those people would be the ones he would not want to alienate.
Unless they will continue to give him money, fuck 'em.

I think FLandis should consider having a religious epiphany. After CAS rules against him, he should wait a couple of months, put his Kid Rock CDs in storage, and start going to church. He's just a innocent country boy who went astray when he ventured into the wide world. With his background and the religious zeal in America, people might buy it. If nothing else, it would make a good story.

After confessing all, he could bone up on his speaking skills and become inspirational speaker.

Think Millar's schtick writ large with a religious component.

Unless they will continue to give him money, fuck 'em.

I think FLandis should consider having a religious epiphany. After CAS rules against him, he should wait a couple of months, put his Kid Rock CDs in storage, and start going to church. He's just a innocent country boy who went astray when he ventured into the wide world. With his background and the religious zeal in America, people might buy it. If nothing else, it would make a good story.

After confessing all, he could bone up on his speaking skills and become inspirational speaker.

Think Millar's schtick writ large with a religious component.He would have to improve a LOT. He would have done much better if he didn't come up with "101 reasons why I tested positive in spite of being clean" when his positive test was announced.

Well, I disagree with you on your disagreement of TDL's opinion. :p

Seriously, somebody in the recent past shared a study somewhere along the way that concluded that the majority of college hockey players (can't recall the %, but want to say it was like 75%), admitted to some sort of doping.

Ok, I've walked into many ice rinks and hockey crowd gatherings and shared this study in the last year, especially as it relates to those of use raising little hockey players. People couldn't care less. They shrug it off, turn away and say "hey, how 'bout those Redwings" to the person next to them. Or, they respond by saying, "Yeah, for what? Taking sudafed or something? Gimme a break already."

So, baseball discussions go somewhat the same imo. Doping is the elephant in the room that everyone knows exists but they don't want to talk about. The skeleton in their sports' closet that nobody speaks of. But, when it is forced to the forefront (Balco, Bonds, congressional hearings) then people relucantly speak their discontent, but only because they recognize the societal pressure and the fact that it is the "right thing to do." Political correctness at it's finest.

If a congressional issue (literally and figuratively) wasn't being made out of it, nobody would care and they'd simply keep screaming "play ball", without any in depth consideration about the underlying effects from doping.I'm not talking about redneck sports like hockey at college level... :p

The point you make about hockey though is interesting because it is the same phenomena I've noticed here. That everyone knows it exists on a large scale... but when someone goes down... they heap scorn on the guilty victim. Though I appreciate there is much more derision placed on the Landises, Hamiltons, and Vinokourovs than there is on the Morenis, Jaksches and Sinkewitzes.

I guarantee you... if Landis had have fessed straight away... after winning the TdF and American cycling fans jumping for joy... he would have been scorned by everyone. As it is now... he has us and many other fans who loathe him... but he also possibly has close friends and family who are still supportive. As NNS said... he can go home at Christmas and still whinge about the conspiracy, with friends and family believers/supporters around him. If he fessed... he would be considered a liar and a cheat on the record by everybody for the rest of his life. Some may have forgiven him... but nobody would have forgot.

I guarantee you... if Landis had have fessed straight away... after winning the TdF and American cycling fans jumping for joy... he would have been scorned by everyone. As it is now... he has us and many other fans who loathe him... but he also possibly has close friends and family who are still supportive. As NNS said... he can go home at Christmas and still whinge about the conspiracy, with friends and family believers/supporters around him. If he fessed... he would be considered a liar and a cheat on the record by everybody for the rest of his life. Some may have forgiven him... but nobody would have forgot.
Americans are pretty forgiving.

The route that Landis chose is a hard one. Hamilton is already the constant butt of jokes among cycling fans. Everytime the mainstream press writes about doping, they throw in a bit about FLandis. It is going to suck to go through life as the unrepentent cheater who won the TdF.

He would have to improve a LOT. He would have done much better if he didn't come up with "101 reasons why I tested positive in spite of being clean" when his positive test was announced.
Armstrong improved a lot. He was practically inarticulate in 1999. He reminded me of the interview after the basketball game in the movie Bedazzled.

Unless they will continue to give him money, fuck 'em.

I think FLandis should consider having a religious epiphany. After CAS rules against him, he should wait a couple of months, put his Kid Rock CDs in storage, and start going to church. He's just a innocent country boy who went astray when he ventured into the wide world. With his background and the religious zeal in America, people might buy it. If nothing else, it would make a good story.

After confessing all, he could bone up on his speaking skills and become inspirational speaker.

Think Millar's schtick writ large with a religious component.I like it. I think he could dope with impunity, really. Seriously, though. He could be the Reggie White (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reggie_White) of the cycling world. The Reverend Floyd Lanids.

Americans are pretty forgiving.

The route that Landis chose is a hard one. Hamilton is already the constant butt of jokes among cycling fans. Everytime the mainstream press writes about doping, they throw in a bit about FLandis. It is going to suck to go through life as the unrepentent cheater who won the TdF.I think you are right about Americans being pretty forgiving perhaps in the long run if you show remorse. As you say, they will be much less forgiving if they find that you have lied and not shown any remorse, and are subsequently found guilty.

My points though are, that the normal human reaction when plunged into a huge potential loss situation is to cling to the chance that you can ride the storm unscathed, which is what he did. Once you protest your innocence and get your friends and family behind you... it becomes exponentially harder to fess up subsequently.

The second point is that you allude to the general public perception of him as now being very negative. From his perspective however... by fighting the conviction and standing by his claim of innocence... he still probably has a close group of people around him who still believe in his integrity. If he had say reacted to the initial news of a positive test the way he did... like "This was all a mistake... and I am a clean rider blah blah"... and then fessed up when the B sample came in positive... he would have difficulty retaining his integrity with those people close to him. People that he had probably told for a decade that he rode clean.

I don't think he really cares about our opinions that much. We are certainly not going to be invited to any of his birthday parties.

I think FLandis should consider having a religious epiphany. After CAS rules against him, he should wait a couple of months, put his Kid Rock CDs in storage, and start going to church. He's just a innocent country boy who went astray when he ventured into the wide world. With his background and the religious zeal in America, people might buy it. If nothing else, it would make a good story.

After confessing all, he could bone up on his speaking skills and become inspirational speaker.

Think Millar's schtick writ large with a religious component.You know, I think it would work. Just throw in an addiction to alcohol, blame his friend Will for leading him astray... et voila. He can write a book and go on the talk show circuit.

Americans are pretty forgiving.

The route that Landis chose is a hard one. Hamilton is already the constant butt of jokes among cycling fans. Everytime the mainstream press writes about doping, they throw in a bit about FLandis. It is going to suck to go through life as the unrepentent cheater who won the TdF.That is only because they haven't managed to buck the charges. When they initially stuck their sword in the ground though, they had every intention of getting out of the whole mess without a blemish. In hindsight it seems like a foolhardy strategy... but in FL's case, before the results of the arbitration came out... we weren't all entirely certain of the outcome. Once the swords were stuck by FL and TH though... it was even harder to backtrack and change the story thereafter.

Post edit - Shit - I see this is the second time I've responded to your same post. I need to find my Alzheimer's medication... :D

You know, I think it would work. Just throw in an addiction to alcohol, blame his friend Will for leading him astray... et voila. He can write a book and go on the talk show circuit.+1. This may actually be his strategy if he loses the CAS case. Wait 6 months after the verdict, have a confession (legally parsed to avoid prison), then tour the country. Jose Canseco, Bill Romanowski, and others are doing the same. I also agree that throwing in a little religious sentiment goes a long way.

If he wins the CAS case, he'll of course be vindicated, so it's probably worth it at this point to stay the course.

Tell me at what stage in Floyd's career that you would have said "no" to the temptation to dope, Edie... assuming you were in his situation?

I'll take a stab at this. Here it goes.

THE BEGINNING?

I'll take a stab at this. Here it goes.

THE BEGINNING?
Which is why no one's ever heard of you...:p

Which is why no one's ever heard of you...:p

Not the only reason!